"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[TheMikado]

A character with a propensity to abruptly "rage out" over perceived slights and outrages. Allows himself to be repeatedly and consistently humiliated without any really conflict on his part. That seems like a contridiction to me.

I don't know how to respond... are you some machine from the future, trying to learn more about us extinct human beings?

You're comparing totally different situations. He was willing to humiliate himself to keep the peace, but got pissed when some dick slapped had wife. Organic life forms react in dependence to any given situation, I hope this information helps Mikado-bot.

Look Mule butt maybe I'm not clear enough, there is a clear extreme reaction. The "My Bulma scene was incredibly over the top as was the humiliation scene. I've given a scenario where it would be plausible I have both play out while keeping the personality consistent. He doesn't become an entirely different person. It was simply poor presentation and writing.

[kinisking]

Either his personality advances and he doesn't flip his wig constantly or he does. You can't have him suddenly being ultra calm and willing to humiliate himself one moment and then going ultra super rage to heights he's never seen before the next. Especially over the Bulma slap. His character is completely unbalanced. Why not rage boost against any number of other enemies he's faced in Super that are endangering one thing or another. Zamasu/Black KILLED Bulma and screwed his entire sons future while systematically hunting and attempting to kill him. I mean Vegeta had plenty more reason to rage boost over that than a stupid slap... this is why that scene is so forced and uneven for his character for me.

He was calm and willing to humiliate himself to protect bulma, the second she was hurt was when that went out the window. Remember this is a God of destruction. To Vegeta her life was in danger, why would he be calm anymore? Bulma wasn't killed in front of Vegeta, so it's a completely different story. There's an emotional disconnect when hearing about things compared to actually seeing them. Vegeta got angry about it, as hinted by his intense training, but not enough for a rage boost because of that.

Look you can explain it however you want, my point is the rage boost is incredibly forced given context of everything else before and during Super. The My Bulma scene feels especially forced given everything that happens in the future Trunks arc. This far the only times we have seen Vegeta rage is over Trunks and Bulma, yet in the the Future Trunks arc they are both having all kinds of things happen to them and they aren't rage boosting and better yet somehow GOKU of all people gets the rage boost after HEARING about Zamasu killing the family that was of another timeline Goku. So suddenly Goku has an emotional connection about hearing something but not seeing while Vegeta doesn't??? The freaking known rager? That's what makes it look even more suspect. Not sure how you can justify one scenario and not the other .

The "look you can explain it however you want" is just handwaving a very valid arguement. It's clear this was the intent of the authors.

The Goku event does weaken my argument but not by too much. Goku was literally being told this while backed up into a corner, stabbed, and told by the guy who did it as he smiled. That causes much more emotion than being told that your wife died by your distraught son.Think about it personally if someone who murdered your wife went up to you and shot you once, then told you he killed your wife as he smiled would you be angrier than if your son ran home one day and told you your wife was killed?

[Kanassa]

Look you can explain it however you want, my point is the rage boost is incredibly forced given context of everything else before and during Super. The My Bulma scene feels especially forced given everything that happens in the future Trunks arc. This far the only times we have seen Vegeta rage is over Trunks and Bulma, yet in the the Future Trunks arc they are both having all kinds of things happen to them and they aren't rage boosting and better yet somehow GOKU of all people gets the rage boost after HEARING about Zamasu killing the family that was of another timeline Goku. So suddenly Goku has an emotional connection about hearing something but not seeing while Vegeta doesn't??? The freaking known rager? That's what makes it look even more suspect. Not sure how you can justify one scenario and not the other .

There's a whole difference between hearing off hand that your family in another timeline has been killed, and having the killer pin you to a wall and gleefully detail killing them right to your face. Especially since Goku has the added bonus of Zamasu stealing his body and carrying out the deed with his face.

[VejituhTheWarriorGuy]

How do you pronounce Zamasu in English? I've always pronounced it Zamasu but some pronounce it as Zamas

[TheMikado]

Look you can explain it however you want, my point is the rage boost is incredibly forced given context of everything else before and during Super. The My Bulma scene feels especially forced given everything that happens in the future Trunks arc. This far the only times we have seen Vegeta rage is over Trunks and Bulma, yet in the the Future Trunks arc they are both having all kinds of things happen to them and they aren't rage boosting and better yet somehow GOKU of all people gets the rage boost after HEARING about Zamasu killing the family that was of another timeline Goku. So suddenly Goku has an emotional connection about hearing something but not seeing while Vegeta doesn't??? The freaking known rager? That's what makes it look even more suspect. Not sure how you can justify one scenario and not the other .

There's a whole difference between hearing off hand that your family in another timeline has been killed, and having the killer pin you to a wall and gleefully detail killing them right to your face. Especially since Goku has the added bonus of Zamasu stealing his body and carrying out the deed with his face.

I certainly understand the context but this is also ignoring personalities. Vegeta is the type to fly off the handle about these kinds of things. My point from the get go is that the "My Bulma" scene is ridiculous and over the top compared to what happened vs the response it illicited. I.e. Vegeta rage boosting past SSJ3 levels on this none consequential event. How can you really make the argument that this sudden rage boost that Vegeta has ever experienced before but was triggered by his wife being slapped is justified. He doesn't have a tendency to get rage boosts like this, he certainly rages but not to that level and especially over something like this. It literally has never happened with him before despite everything else he's experienced.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

How do you pronounce Zamasu in English? I've always pronounced it Zamasu but some pronounce it as Zamas

Both are correct. Japanese works in such a way where there's more than 1 correct romanization. For example, Bulma could also be Bluma or Blooma. Kuririn could also be Kulilin (and technically Kurilin, which could alternatively be pronounced as Krillin, but that's a stretch, and a conversation for another time). Similarly, Gowasu and Zamasu could also be Gowas and Zamas.

I rather like the sound of Zamas, especially when you put such heavy emphasis on the s, like Gowasu often does in the anime. The harshness of it jives pretty well.

[HeroR]

The "look you can explain it however you want" is just handwaving a very valid arguement. It's clear this was the intent of the authors.

The Goku event does weaken my argument but not by too much. Goku was literally being told this while backed up into a corner, stabbed, and told by the guy who did it as he smiled. That causes much more emotion than being told that your wife died by your distraught son.Think about it personally if someone who murdered your wife went up to you and shot you once, then told you he killed your wife as he smiled would you be angrier than if your son ran home one day and told you your wife was killed?

It should also be noted that when Vegeta heard that Future Bulma died, he was told by his son and had time to 'cool off' before Black even arrived in the past. So there was no flash in a pain reaction.

Goku had the murderers of his family right in his face, telling him how they murdered him and his family after taken his body. So not only did say murderer killed his family, they rubbed in his face how they killed them.

It's the different of being told that your family was killed by a police officer vs having the actually killer come by your house, sit on your sofa, and tell you in detail what happened.

[Bullza]

Ehhhh so according to the dub the events of Dragon Ball Super take place several months after the wish to forget Buu which was six months after the death of Kid Buu.

That definitely does not put them in Age 778.

That once again brings me back to what I said recently about how it doesnt make sense for it to be that long afterward.

[HeroR]

Ehhhh so according to the dub the events of Dragon Ball Super take place several months after the wish to forget Buu which was six months after the death of Kid Buu.

That definitely does not put them in Age 778.

That once again brings me back to what I said recently about how it doesnt make sense for it to be that long afterward.

The dub only said that several months of peace reign after everyone had their memory of Buu erased. Not that the story takes place after several months otherwise Gohan would still be in high school.

[Bullza]

Ehhhh so according to the dub the events of Dragon Ball Super take place several months after the wish to forget Buu which was six months after the death of Kid Buu.

That definitely does not put them in Age 778.

That once again brings me back to what I said recently about how it doesnt make sense for it to be that long afterward.

The dub only said that several months of peace reign after everyone had their memory of Buu erased. Not that the story takes place after several months otherwise Gohan would still be in high school.

It said the memories of Buu had been erased and the planet has enjoyed several more months of peace before cutting to Goku farming.

The obvious implication being that this would be several months after the wish about Buu.

[HeroR]

The obvious implication being that this would be several months after the wish about Buu.

And again, if only several months went by, Gohan would still be in high school. This isn't rocket science.

[Bullza]

The obvious implication being that this would be several months after the wish about Buu.

And again, if only several months went by, Gohan would still be in high school. This isn't rocket science.

He doesn't have to be in high school. People leave high school at 17 in a bunch of countries.

Kid Trunks and Goten haven't aged. Kid Trunks would be 14 now but he was 14 in History of Trunks and he's clearly much older. Goten would be years older than Gohan at the Cell Games.

Martin obviously isn't 9, she's still a toddler.

Bulma hadn't seen Goku for 5 years by EoZ but she'll see him in a few episodes time.

On top of several other things it doesn't add up at all.

[HeroR]

He doesn't have to be in high school. People leave high school at 17 in a bunch of countries.

Kid Trunks and Goten haven't aged. Kid Trunks would be 14 now but he was 14 in History of Trunks and he's clearly much older. Goten would be years older than Gohan at the Cell Games.

Martin obviously isn't 9, she's still a toddler.

Bulma hadn't seen Goku for 5 years by EoZ but she'll see him in a few episodes time.

On top of several other things it doesn't add up at all.

As it has been pointed out to you several times here on this forum, using Goten and Trunks not aging is flawed since they didn't age in BOG either, which takes place four years after the Buu Saga.

Marron also didn't aged in BOG, takes place four years after Buu.

That five years line can easily be ignored and isn't even that big of a deal. Why plot point change if Bulma has seen Goku in the last five years?

It adds up perfectly. You're just stuck on the few months line, despite all the guides telling us that the time frame has not be altered between Super and BOG.

[Sandubadear]

Ehhhh so according to the dub the events of Dragon Ball Super take place several months after the wish to forget Buu which was six months after the death of Kid Buu.

That definitely does not put them in Age 778.

That once again brings me back to what I said recently about how it doesnt make sense for it to be that long afterward.

The dub also says that GT is 10 years after EoZ, which is not correct. Don't trust the dub on these things.

[HeroR]

Ehhhh so according to the dub the events of Dragon Ball Super take place several months after the wish to forget Buu which was six months after the death of Kid Buu.

That definitely does not put them in Age 778.

That once again brings me back to what I said recently about how it doesnt make sense for it to be that long afterward.

The dub also says that GT is 10 years after EoZ, which is not correct. Don't trust the dub on these things.

They also mess up the time of BOG by saying it was five years after Buu, not four. Although I am sure if that was because the time frame was moved.

[Bullza]

As it has been pointed out to you several times here on this forum, using Goten and Trunks not aging is flawed since they didn't age in BOG either, which takes place four years after the Buu Saga.

That was fine as Kid Trunks would have been 12. As was said in Jaco, Saiyans stay as kids for a long time then shoot up. Using the same dates for Super hardly fits as Kid Trunks now should be the same age as he was in History of Trunks even though they are obviously not the same age.

As was mentioned before Goku referred to Uub as just being born even though he would be about 5 years old.

It also does not fit with what Trunks says in the manga. According to Trunks it had been 10 years since back then at the Cell Games.

The Cell Games was in Age 767 and the next day he returned back to Age 785 which would mean the problems with Black happen in Age 795. He returned 17 years in the past to Age 778.

The Battle of Gods saga would be in Age 775 several months after Buu as makes sense with certain things like Vegeta taking Trunks to the amusement park and Mr Satan getting the peace award.

The Resurrection F saga would be over a year and a third after that in late Age 776 or early Age 777.

The Universe 6 saga was a good 8 months after that so mid/late Age 777 and then the Copy Water arc was some time after that and then Future Trunks was some time after that in Age 778.

[HeroR]

As it has been pointed out to you several times here on this forum, using Goten and Trunks not aging is flawed since they didn't age in BOG either, which takes place four years after the Buu Saga.

That was fine as Kid Trunks would have been 12. As was said in Jaco, Saiyans stay as kids for a long time then shoot up. Using the same dates for Super hardly fits as Kid Trunks now should be the same age as he was in History of Trunks even though they are obviously not the same age.

As was mentioned before Goku referred to Uub as just being born even though he would be about 5 years old.

It also does not fit with what Trunks says in the manga. According to Trunks it had been 10 years since back then at the Cell Games.

The Cell Games was in Age 767 and the next day he returned back to Age 785 which would mean the problems with Black happen in Age 795. He returned 17 years in the past to Age 778.

The Battle of Gods saga would be in Age 775 several months after Buu as makes sense with certain things like Vegeta taking Trunks to the amusement park and Mr Satan getting the peace award.

The Resurrection F saga would be over a year and a third after that in late Age 776 or early Age 777.

The Universe 6 saga was a good 8 months after that so mid/late Age 777 and then the Copy Water arc was some time after that and then Future Trunks was some time after that in Age 778.

Still doesn't changed that Trunks and Goten weren't older in BOG which takes place four years after Buu. Also, Jaco didn't say this growth was only limited to pure-blooded Saiyans and Future Trunks and Present Trunks are not the same character. They grew up in completely different environment, which does impact growth in real life.

He only mentioned that Kid Buu was promised to him. He didn't mentioned Uub by named, nor say that he was even born. Goku didn't know if Buu was even Buu as soon as he was killed since Toriyama said the process usually take awhile, but Buu's happened fast since he was pure evil.

Trunks officially traveled back 17 years from his time. That was said in both the anime and the Super manga. So Future Trunks' time is 17 into the future of the present timeline. Meaning, Trunks came form 797, not 795.

BOG Saga takes place in the same time period as the BOG movie. In both, Beerus has been asleep for 39 years. It would be 35 if they moved the timeline by four years.

The time is 780 for the Champa Saga and the Future Trunks Saga. Super didn't move the timeline by four years.

[Bullza]

Still doesn't changed that Trunks and Goten weren't older in BOG which takes place four years after Buu.

There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing to say that Trunks didn't look that way at age 12 but we know for a fact what he looks like at age 14 and it's not what he currently looks like in Super so he's not 14.

Trunks officially traveled back 17 years from his time. That was said in both the anime and the Super manga. So Future Trunks' time is 17 into the future of the present timeline. Meaning, Trunks came form 797, not 795.

No that wouldn't make sense. When Goku was sparring with Trunks and mentioned how he'd improved so much and he was stronger than Gohan back then as in during the Cell Games Trunks said that it was because it had been 10 years.

After the Cell Games Trunks returned back to Age 785. So 10 years would be Age 795. If it was Age 797 then that would be 12 years.

So if it's Age 795 and he went back 17 years then he should be in Age 778. Kid Trunks would then be 12 and there's no problem with him not looking as old as he does at 14.

BOG Saga takes place in the same time period as the BOG movie. In both, Beerus has been asleep for 39 years. It would be 35 if they moved the timeline by four years.

That could still be the same. If he woke up in Age 775 then he went to sleep in Age 736 which would be after Goku was born.

[HeroR]

Still doesn't changed that Trunks and Goten weren't older in BOG which takes place four years after Buu.

There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing to say that Trunks didn't look that way at age 12 but we know for a fact what he looks like at age 14 and it's not what he currently looks like in Super so he's not 14.

Trunks officially traveled back 17 years from his time. That was said in both the anime and the Super manga. So Future Trunks' time is 17 into the future of the present timeline. Meaning, Trunks came form 797, not 795.

No that wouldn't make sense. When Goku was sparring with Trunks and mentioned how he'd improved so much and he was stronger than Gohan back then as in during the Cell Games Trunks said that it was because it had been 10 years.

After the Cell Games Trunks returned back to Age 785. So 10 years would be Age 795. If it was Age 797 then that would be 12 years.

So if it's Age 795 and he went back 17 years then he should be in Age 778. Kid Trunks would then be 12 and there's no problem with him not looking as old as he does at 14.

BOG Saga takes place in the same time period as the BOG movie. In both, Beerus has been asleep for 39 years. It would be 35 if they moved the timeline by four years.

That could still be the same. If he woke up in Age 775 then he went to sleep in Age 736 which would be after Goku was born.

As I said, Future Trunks and Present Trunks are not the same people. They grew up in different environments that does effect ones' growth. So Future Trunks looking a certain way at age 14 doesn't mean Present Trunks would look that way at the same age.

That's the Super's manga. In the anime, no such line was ever given. And even in the manga, it was said Trunks went back 17 years into the past, not 10, in Chapter 14.

Why would Beerus go to sleep over three years before Freeza destroyed Vegeta and then wonder if Freeza destroyed the planet?

[Bullza]

As I said, Future Trunks and Present Trunks are not the same people. They grew up in different environments that does effect ones' growth.

They are the exact same person. The one who was brought up in the war torn world somehow had the better meals to grow up to be much bigger, taller and older than his alternate counterpart at the same age? You're looking for something that isn't there.

This

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Is obviously not this

[spoiler][/spoiler]

That's the Super's manga. In the anime, no such line was ever given. And even in the manga, it was said Trunks went back 17 years into the past, not 10, in Chapter 14.

So? The anime and manga aren't set in two different time periods.

I know that Trunks went back 17 years in time. I didn't say he went back 10 years.

It's been 10 years for Trunks since he took part in the Cell Games and also since he killed the Androids in his timeline which he did the day after the Cell Games from Trunks' perspective.

If he killed the Androids in Age 785 then 10 years on from that would be Age 795 which would be the year that Black "killed" Mai and Trunks used the time machine to go back 17 years to Age 778.

So as I said the BoG saga would be shortly after the wish to make people forget about Buu in Age 775. The RoF saga was say a year and a half after that which would be near the end of Age 776 or the start of Age 777. The Universe 6 saga which would be 8 months after that would be Age 777 and then an unknown amount of time after that the Copy Water arc happened and then the Future Trunks saga which would be Age 778.

It fits just fine.

Why would Beerus go to sleep over three years before Freeza destroyed Vegeta and then wonder if Freeza destroyed the planet?

What's wrong with that? Goku would have been born, the Oracle Fish gives Beerus the prophecy, he goes to sleep, some time after that Planet Vegeta is destroyed and when he wakes up he asks if Frieza destroyed it.