Non-thread-worthy discussions

[dbgtFO]

*Post*

*Post*

Always thought Freeza was born in his first form and just had the ability to transform, because he was so gifted. His father and Chilled never unlocked anything past their established forms, because they couldn't, whereas Freeza was just special like that.
Even his Golden Form is just established as a further evolution, not something completely new and different to what he did before.
As with a lot of DB lore this could have been elaborated on further.

No matter what theory to believe I still think Freeza's forms just represent what his race would look like after evolving for millions of years like a human transforming back and forth between Ape form, Neanderthal and Homo Sapiens.

[Gog]

*Post*

*Post*

Always thought Freeza was born in his first form and just had the ability to transform, because he was so gifted. His father and Chilled never unlocked anything past their established forms, because they couldn't, whereas Freeza was just special like that.
Even his Golden Form is just established as a further evolution, not something completely new and different to what he did before.
As with a lot of DB lore this could have been elaborated on further.

No matter what theory to believe I still think Freeza's forms just represent what his race would look like after evolving for millions of years like a human transforming back and forth between Ape form, Neanderthal and Homo Sapiens.

I've-I've found you, I'm not alone, I've found someone who's actually stopped to question the fact that Freeza's forms don't work as suppression forms, and actually work better as augmentation forms, similar to super Saiyan. Actually I do think that King Cold was in his second form, as he looked so similar to Freeza's second form, it was also stated that he carried the same mutation Freeza did. That is a funny thought, the arcosians are evolving to become shiny types

[rereboy]

It's stated in the series that they are suppression forms.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Does anyone else think Nozawa did a lot better on Kai version of the Buu arc than she does currently on Super? In my opinion, her Goku and her Gohan were a lot better there. Of course, it has been almost 3 years since then.

Not particularly, her range is still noticeably diminished from the 80's and 90's. Same as with Kai 1.0 and Super, she compensates by exaggerating the voice. I can see why someone would enjoy her newer performances more, she definitely sticks in your head, and they aren't bad by any means, but they aren't for my.

[Bansho64]

Not particularly, her range is still noticeably diminished from the 80's and 90's. Same as with Kai 1.0 and Super, she compensates by exaggerating the voice. I can see why someone would enjoy her newer performances more, she definitely sticks in your head, and they aren't bad by any means, but they aren't for my.

Yeah, it's definitely not at the same level consistently as it was back then. But, for me, her performance in Super seems even more weaker at points compared to some of her Kai scenes. I mean, I thought some of the those transformation scenes seemed really good in Kai. Gohan going SSJ2, Goku going SSJ3, Goku meeting Goten, Gotenks in general, etc. I can see why it wouldn't be for you though.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Not particularly, her range is still noticeably diminished from the 80's and 90's. Same as with Kai 1.0 and Super, she compensates by exaggerating the voice. I can see why someone would enjoy her newer performances more, she definitely sticks in your head, and they aren't bad by any means, but they aren't for my.

Yeah, it's definitely not at the same level consistently as it was back then. But, for me, her performance in Super seems even more weaker at points compared to some of her Kai scenes. I mean, I thought some of the those transformation scenes seemed really good in Kai. Gohan going SSJ2, Goku going SSJ3, Goku meeting Goten, Gotenks in general, etc. I can see why it wouldn't be for you though.

I derped and forgot to explain why I liked her Super performance better in the first comment. It seems that the script is written around her voice, and Super's Goku is an exaggeration of his former self. That, as opposed to mimicking 20 year-old lines, the difference shows.

[Gog]

It's stated in the series that they are suppression forms.

What Freeza states just falls apart from what is shown

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I'm having a hell of a time trying to use SignAvatar on this forum, I've been at it for a while now. I know there are a few people with rotating avatars around, how do they do it?

[rereboy]

It's stated in the series that they are suppression forms.

What Freeza states just falls apart from what is shown

No, it doesn't. Freeza becomes stronger whenever he stops using a suppressing from, which is how it should work since that form stopped suppressing him when he stopped using it.

Basically, Freeza's suppression forms work kind of like weighted clothes regarding speed. It's like Freeza felt that he was incredibly fast, too fast, in his normal state, so he put weighted clothing to be easier to control his incredible speed. Only it's not speed, it's power, and it's not weighted clothing, it's suppression forms. Freeza felt that he was incredibly powerful, too powerful, so he created suppressed forms to be easier to handle.

You are arguing against what is plainly stated in the manga because you just want to, not because there's an actual argument in there to be made.

[Draconic]

If Freeza got half his body chopped off by the Kienzan, then proceeded to transform to his final form, do you think it would regenerate his legs?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

If Freeza got half his body chopped off by the Kienzan, then proceeded to transform to his final form, do you think it would regenerate his legs?

He regenerated his tail, didn't he? So... maybe?

[rereboy]

If Freeza got half his body chopped off by the Kienzan, then proceeded to transform to his final form, do you think it would regenerate his legs?

If that would work, I don't think he would need robot parts. He would just transform into a suppression form and then back to his natural form.

[Khin]

I'm having a hell of a time trying to use SignAvatar on this forum, I've been at it for a while now. I know there are a few people with rotating avatars around, how do they do it?

PhpBB no longer allows avatar rotation sites like SignAvatar. While there are some people who are still using it, that's only because didn't change their avatar URL prior to the phpBB implementation. If for some reason those folks change their URL, they can no longer use it again and will just get the "Invalid URL" error.

[Gog]

It's stated in the series that they are suppression forms.

What Freeza states just falls apart from what is shown

No, it doesn't. Freeza becomes stronger whenever he stops using a suppressing from, which is how it should work since that form stopped suppressing him when he stopped using it. You are arguing against what is plainly stated in the manga because you just want to, not because there's an actual argument in there to be made.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/chp-296/ The Kanzenshuu Manga guide refers to Freeza's forms as his super transformations, and Freeza only states that he can't control himself when transformed, similar to Super Saiyan, and all transformed states, besides full power super Saiyan, and the god forms. Unless the manga guide is wrong of course.

Anyway if a character plainly states something, like Cell saying he can blow up the solar system, never does, fires his strongest solar busting blast against his opponent, and in the resulting beam clash the earth isn't destroyed. Then he isn't a solar system buster.

Same goes for Freeza, he states that he needs the form's to supress his power, however as it was shown in his fight with Goku, he can suppress it to the point where he won't blow him up with a single punch. Thus making me wonder why does he need those other three forms?

Unless their augmentations

[Draconic]

If Freeza got half his body chopped off by the Kienzan, then proceeded to transform to his final form, do you think it would regenerate his legs?

If that would work, I don't think he would need robot parts. He would just transform into a suppression form and then back to his natural form.

Well, I feel that the supression forms work more like shells that cover his true body, so damaging them shouldn't hurt that (based on the fact his tail was intact after transformation). With the mechanical legs, he got damaged in his true form, so just putting stuff over it wouldn't do anything to it.

Of course, I'm not talking about actual shells, since his first form is smaller than his true one, but I think you get the point.

[rereboy]

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/chp-296/ The Kanzenshuu Manga guide refers to Freeza's forms as his super transformations, and Freeza only states that he can't control himself when transformed, similar to Super Saiyan, and all transformed states, besides full power super Saiyan, and the god forms. Unless the manga guide is wrong of course.

Anyway if a character plainly states something, like Cell saying he can blow up the solar system, never does, fires his strongest solar busting blast against his opponent, and in the resulting beam clash the earth isn't destroyed. Then he isn't a solar system buster.

Same goes for Freeza, he states that he needs the form's to supress his power, however as it was shown in his fight with Goku, he can suppress it to the point where he won't blow him up with a single punch. Thus making me wonder why does he need those other three forms?

Unless their augmentations

Better control of his power =/= ability to not blow himself up.

You are acting like Freeza would somehow be shooting laser out of his eyes and be on the verge of self-destruction every time he moved while in his natural form just because he stated that he has trouble controlling himself in his natural form.

His suppression forms just allow better control which is something useful to him because he can't control Ki the same way the Earthlings can (he can't suppress it to be undetectable by a scouter for example).

You provided no real arguments to go against a clear stated fact of the manga.

[Gog]

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/chp-296/ The Kanzenshuu Manga guide refers to Freeza's forms as his super transformations, and Freeza only states that he can't control himself when transformed, similar to Super Saiyan, and all transformed states, besides full power super Saiyan, and the god forms. Unless the manga guide is wrong of course.

Anyway if a character plainly states something, like Cell saying he can blow up the solar system, never does, fires his strongest solar busting blast against his opponent, and in the resulting beam clash the earth isn't destroyed. Then he isn't a solar system buster.

Same goes for Freeza, he states that he needs the form's to supress his power, however as it was shown in his fight with Goku, he can suppress it to the point where he won't blow him up with a single punch. Thus making me wonder why does he need those other three forms?

Unless their augmentations

Better control of his power =/= ability to not blow himself up.

You are acting like Freeza would somehow be shooting laser out of his eyes and be on the verge of self-destruction every time he moved while in his natural form just because he stated that he has trouble controlling himself in his natural form.

His suppression forms just allow better control which is something useful to him because he can't control Ki the same way the Earthlings can (he can't suppress it to be undetectable by a scouter for example).

You provided no real arguments to go against a clear stated fact of the manga.

Exactly, their is simply no need for them. There is no need for Freeza to 'somehow' make three forms that look completely different to his 'true' form, if he can control himself in his true form. It also doesn't excuse the idea of transforming downwards to be completely asinine.

You still haven't followed up on the manga guide, still waiting on that. But he has shown to be adept at suppressing his power, he didn't blow up Goku with a single punch, he didn't destroy planet namek with his blast, because he held back. He can suppress his power.

... You know I would believe that the forms were suppression's if it wasn't for King Cold, who despite being shown as cunning and smart never actually transformed past the second stage. Also the same with Chilled even though he's non canon, he didn't even make it past the first

[rereboy]

if he can control himself in his true form.

He can but he can't control his power as well as he can while using his suppression forms, hence why he likes to use them. You are just thinking of the extremes, like he either just has an absolute and perfect control, or he can't control it at all... It's not like that. Freeza isn't going around destroying planets while yawning in his natural form, but he also doesn't have absolute control, and thus he is able to control it better if he restricts himself. That's the point of his restriction forms and that's what fits with what Freeza says and how he acts while in his natural form.

It doesn't make sense to disregard a clear, factual statement of the manga that actually fits just because we believe that "not controlling" must mean an extreme and complete lack of control.

[Anime Kitten]

Just stumbled across the Dragon Universe Wiki. Seems to be a far more accurate Wikia for DB (as opposed to the Dragon Ball Wikia), based around the Japanese version. Anyone else found it before?

[Gog]

if he can control himself in his true form.

He can but he can't control his power as well as he can while using his suppression forms, hence why he likes to use them. You are just thinking of the extremes, like he either just has an absolute and perfect control, or he can't control it at all... It's not like that. Freeza isn't going around destroying planets while yawning in his natural form, but he also doesn't have absolute control, and thus he is able to control it better if he restricts himself. That's the point of his restriction forms and that's what fits with what Freeza says and how he acts while in his natural form.

It doesn't make sense to disregard a clear, factual statement of the manga that actually fits just because we believe that "not controlling" must mean an extreme and complete lack of control.

Did you even look at my other points, oh whatever, I'll tackle you head on.

But nothing ever outright states that he has better control in his lower forms, they only restrict his power, they don't increase his skill with ki control. Then why would he bother creating three whole biologically diverse forms that look nothing like his apparent 'true' form, also how can he create these forms, its never stated how he was capable of creating these forms. Also you haven't answered any of my other arguments, still waiting on the kazenshuu manga guide y'know, very proud of that.



That clear factual statement of the manga was shattered when King Cold entered the fray, when he didn't transform past his second form, when he needed to, when Chilled didn't transform past his first form like he needed too. If the evidence goes against what Freeza stated then what he has stated is now thrown into doubt.