"Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

[Hellspawn28]

King Kai - Michael McConnohie

Didn't he also voice Tao Pai Pai in the HG dub of Dragon Ball?

[huzaifa_ahmed]

Yeah, I'm not understanding the justification for those statements either.Bang Zoom, to my understanding, intruded no one's territory. I thought they were marketing their interpretation to the Asian market. How does that hurt North America's Dragon Ball? By all means, we're technically not allowed to see it anyway. Whether they worked on Dragon Ball before or not ultimately doesn't matter: The standard actors still have their project for their intended audience.

I just want to say - & I know there are a ton of folks that know this, yourself included - Bang Zoom is not comparable to FUNi, they are a recording studio that contracts actors, directors, staff, etc. They may work on these things professionally, but they aren't a big-ish company that buys & sells shows, like FUNi is. We're comparing them to FUNi in the sense that FUNi pays (well, sort of) for, & records dubs of stuff in their own building. This makes them cheaper & more enticing to anime sellers/licensors because more money goes back to the Japanese studio. Bang Zoom is a studio that Viz, Aniplex, & recently even Marvel use. It is the go-to dubbing studio in Los Angeles, after the downfall of the anime industry caused studios with higher standards to either go bankrupt (most notably Animaze, who dubbed Bebop, Code Geass, Wolf's Rain, Big O, GitS: SAC+, & Xenosaga/.hack games), or diversify to clients with massive pools of money (like Studiopolis, who used to dub for Viz, & now largely just records Disney/WB/Nick AAA stuff).

Turner is likely using them because BZ is always willing to go as low-end as possible to meet their clients' "needs". I'm going off-topic here, probably a bit vitriolic, but the point is that BZ doesnt cast, own, or really oversee this dub. It's a job for them, whereas FUNi owns a piece of the show in certain regions, make casting decisions, & really skimp out on hefty studios to do their dubs for them, preferring to just record it in their building's studio. (& to be fair, WB & Disney often do this as well - however, they are really big cartoon studios in & of themselves)

[TheBlackPaladin]

Turner is likely using them because BZ is always willing to go as low-end as possible to meet their clients' "needs".

That's not really true. It has a degree of truth in that, over the years, some Japanese companies have been pushing for lower and lower dub production costs, but I can tell you with 100% confidence that they're not a "go as low-end as possible" company. It's probably not appropriate for me to go into detail, but you'd be amazed what some other, well-known dubbing studios are doing to cut costs. Things that Bang-Zoom is not doing.

[8000 Saiyan]

Michael McConnohie as King Kai? I've gained hope on this dub.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Welp this is worrying. India didn't air the first episode sneak peak and it turns out Toonami India twitter and fb pages aren't official and every DBS post on the official Toonami Asia post is filled people asking about what's going on with India, they even posted a post asking what fans thoughts on episode 1 but the replies were just people asking about why it didn't air in India, furthermore the latest promo included times for Sing, Mai and Jkt but no India.... /; I'll find out in February for sure but not looking good at all.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

Took me ages to write this one out, even lost my Internet for awhile. But I think it's a post worth making.

Do Lex Lang, Kaiji Tang and Michael McConnohie usually only work on union dubs?

Nope, they've always worked non-union, Michael since the 80s IIRC. Also, Ray Chase started up on Magi & Youtube impressionist work only a year or two ago, & since then has been Noctis in Final Fantasy 15, & Etrigan Blood in Justice League Dark. He's definitely going places. Lex Lang is one of the odd VA's who consistently works with Andrea Romano & has a bunch of awards, yet works on dubs, even non-union. Kaiji Tang is pretty small-time, in pretty much every non-union dub.

I'm very well aware that FUNimation had the rights and used Saban to dub, but they did they do the casting? And why didn't they just keep the actors from the Saban period?

Barry Watson was basically the "creative supervisor" back in the day, and casting decisions were his call. We've never gotten an official reason for why FUNimation decided to stop using the Ocean cast and start handling the voice acting themselves. However, the most commonly-suspected reason is money. Back when DBZ was using the Ocean cast, it was a dub done under the rules and rates of the Canadian actors union, ACTRA. As soon as FUNimation took over the dub themselves, they continued the dub as a non-union dub. Again, what they were paying their actors back in the early days is unknown, but apparently the pay they were offering was low enough that they had trouble finding actors. Certainly way lower than ACTRA's mandated minimum rates.

Yup, pretty much, to all this. Although I'm not sure if the casting was more Saban's (aka the guys who actually paid for & censored it) or FUNimation. It's kind of like the question of "is Jamieson Price's Satan a copy of the FUNi dub, or just based on the Japanese VO". Both of them come from the same place - FUNi was very similar to Saban at the time anyways, so who, really, was behind all the censorship/miscasting/mistranslation/music reversioning/etc.? Also, sangofe, I think it's lost on a lot of people that Dragon Ball's dub is treated similarly to how they treat all their other dubs. It is in fact a non-union production highly uncharacteristic of a show as big as DB.

Unlike other similarly massive shows, because DB is a licensed show & those who own the show back home didnt push for a dub, the dub that exists is treated as more of just a language option, & the actors are paid according to that, rather than considering their performances as part of the entertainment value of the show. That's the union contract - FUNi's dubs are all non-union, $50 an episode (roughly speaking) buyouts. They only got a group as AAA as Ocean because of Saban's money - FUNi has only ever used local non-union talent unless reprising previous dubs. No one's really demanding them to use, say, Greg Cipes & Hynden Walch, & you'll notice that there are very few dubs that are union these days - I'm confused that this is true despite anime's recent resurgence. My gut assumption is that, due to the ease of subtitled (aka nearly-free) Internet streaming (aka very little licensing fees) recently, there's less reliance on TV & less need for dubs. If you can go cheaper, always go cheaper. I could go into budgets somewhere if suggested, though I've typed out pay/budget rates dozens of times elsewhere. This is an issue that is rather strangely important to me FWR.

Dragon Ball fandom is myopic in that there's a ton of people who dont like dubs, & DB's is just a famous 4kids-esqe one that they must simply "deal with"...& there's also a TON of people who, also dont like dubs, but make exception for Dragon Ball because it's so "unique" & they grew up with it (to put it lightly). I tend to have an intellectual issue with the former group...but I have a pretty harsh headache explaining things to the latter group. Point being - there's a ton of folks who comment on DB's dub, who don't really have an understanding or care of how dubs or the industry actually work, & the context of what DB's dub is. They're looking at it either (in the former case) as "I cant talk to people about Dragon Ball the way I can for other anime!", or (latter case) "Dragon Ball is a cool 'Murican anime with amazing English voice acting" (& as a fan of English VO, dubs included, this irritates me).

[hulkedoutdude]

Welp this is worrying. India didn't air the first episode sneak peak and it turns out Toonami India twitter and fb pages aren't official and every DBS post on the official Toonami Asia post is filled people asking about what's going on with India, they even posted a post asking what fans thoughts on episode 1 but the replies were just people asking about why it didn't air in India, furthermore the latest promo included times for Sing, Mai and Jkt but no India.... /; I'll find out in February for sure but not looking good at all.

Toonami asia and toonami india are two separate portals actually there schedule is different too,Toonami asia cover some of the asian countries so they air all of their programmes in english whereas toonami india along with english they telecast programmes in hindi,telugu and tamil (well telugu and tamil for only handful of shows) too... My guess is they are still dubbing DBS in regional languages so it's delayed!!! If DBS airs in India its definitely BZ dub that's for sure...

[8000 Saiyan]

Took me ages to write this one out, even lost my Internet for awhile. But I think it's a post worth making.

Do Lex Lang, Kaiji Tang and Michael McConnohie usually only work on union dubs?

Nope, they've always worked non-union, Michael since the 80s IIRC. Also, Ray Chase started up on Magi & Youtube impressionist work only a year or two ago, & since then has been Noctis in Final Fantasy 15, & Etrigan Blood in Justice League Dark. He's definitely going places. Lex Lang is one of the odd VA's who consistently works with Andrea Romano & has a bunch of awards, yet works on dubs, even non-union. Kaiji Tang is pretty small-time, in pretty much every non-union dub.

I'm very well aware that FUNimation had the rights and used Saban to dub, but they did they do the casting? And why didn't they just keep the actors from the Saban period?

Barry Watson was basically the "creative supervisor" back in the day, and casting decisions were his call. We've never gotten an official reason for why FUNimation decided to stop using the Ocean cast and start handling the voice acting themselves. However, the most commonly-suspected reason is money. Back when DBZ was using the Ocean cast, it was a dub done under the rules and rates of the Canadian actors union, ACTRA. As soon as FUNimation took over the dub themselves, they continued the dub as a non-union dub. Again, what they were paying their actors back in the early days is unknown, but apparently the pay they were offering was low enough that they had trouble finding actors. Certainly way lower than ACTRA's mandated minimum rates.

Yup, pretty much, to all this. Although I'm not sure if the casting was more Saban's (aka the guys who actually paid for & censored it) or FUNimation. It's kind of like the question of "is Jamieson Price's Satan a copy of the FUNi dub, or just based on the Japanese VO". Both of them come from the same place - FUNi was very similar to Saban at the time anyways, so who, really, was behind all the censorship/miscasting/mistranslation/music reversioning/etc.? Also, sangofe, I think it's lost on a lot of people that Dragon Ball's dub is treated similarly to how they treat all their other dubs. It is in fact a non-union production highly uncharacteristic of a show as big as DB.

Unlike other similarly massive shows, because DB is a licensed show & those who own the show back home didnt push for a dub, the dub that exists is treated as more of just a language option, & the actors are paid according to that, rather than considering their performances as part of the entertainment value of the show. That's the union contract - FUNi's dubs are all non-union, $50 an episode (roughly speaking) buyouts. They only got a group as AAA as Ocean because of Saban's money - FUNi has only ever used local non-union talent unless reprising previous dubs. No one's really demanding them to use, say, Greg Cipes & Hynden Walch, & you'll notice that there are very few dubs that are union these days - I'm confused that this is true despite anime's recent resurgence. My gut assumption is that, due to the ease of subtitled (aka nearly-free) Internet streaming (aka very little licensing fees) recently, there's less reliance on TV & less need for dubs. If you can go cheaper, always go cheaper. I could go into budgets somewhere if suggested, though I've typed out pay/budget rates dozens of times elsewhere. This is an issue that is rather strangely important to me FWR.

Dragon Ball fandom is myopic in that there's a ton of people who dont like dubs, & DB's is just a famous 4kids-esqe one that they must simply "deal with"...& there's also a TON of people who, also dont like dubs, but make exception for Dragon Ball because it's so "unique" & they grew up with it (to put it lightly). I tend to have an intellectual issue with the former group...but I have a pretty harsh headache explaining things to the latter group. Point being - there's a ton of folks who comment on DB's dub, who don't really have an understanding or care of how dubs or the industry actually work, & the context of what DB's dub is. They're looking at it either (in the former case) as "I cant talk to people about Dragon Ball the way I can for other anime!", or (latter case) "Dragon Ball is a cool 'Murican anime with amazing English voice acting" (& as a fan of English VO, dubs included, this irritates me).

Really? The difference between the DB dubs (the pre-Kai ones) and Funi's other dubs is that they stick close to the Japanese. And would it make any difference in quality if a DB dub was union? Union or non-union, it doesn't matter as long as the dub is good.

[Kirbopher]

...so, anyone got any shaky-cam clips of this? Apparently the first episode premiered in December, but if not, do we know anyone watching it over there that can get some clips when it starts on the 21st?

[hulkedoutdude]

...so, anyone got any shaky-cam clips of this? Apparently the first episode premiered in December, but if not, do we know anyone watching it over there that can get some clips when it starts on the 21st?

If it was airing in India, i knew some groups who could have recorded it in HQ but I don't think people of regions which toonami asia is covering actually care about english dub... There are episode of toonami asia youkai watch dub on sites like dailymotion but its naming is really weird and absolutely impossible to find unless someone give you direct link or you are following him!!!
Hey you are Chris Niosi aren't you...Absolutely Love your role as reigen man, No one could have portrayed him better!!!!

[hulkedoutdude]

...so, anyone got any shaky-cam clips of this? Apparently the first episode premiered in December, but if not, do we know anyone watching it over there that can get some clips when it starts on the 21st?

Looking forward for your epic comeback from 11nt and 12th episode!!!

[Ki Breaker]

Welp this is worrying. India didn't air the first episode sneak peak and it turns out Toonami India twitter and fb pages aren't official and every DBS post on the official Toonami Asia post is filled people asking about what's going on with India, they even posted a post asking what fans thoughts on episode 1 but the replies were just people asking about why it didn't air in India, furthermore the latest promo included times for Sing, Mai and Jkt but no India.... /; I'll find out in February for sure but not looking good at all.

Is it only happening in India and not anywhere else?
That's kinda.. odd..
Did India decide it was too cruel or something

[hulkedoutdude]

Welp this is worrying. India didn't air the first episode sneak peak and it turns out Toonami India twitter and fb pages aren't official and every DBS post on the official Toonami Asia post is filled people asking about what's going on with India, they even posted a post asking what fans thoughts on episode 1 but the replies were just people asking about why it didn't air in India, furthermore the latest promo included times for Sing, Mai and Jkt but no India.... /; I'll find out in February for sure but not looking good at all.

Is it only happening in India and not anywhere else?
That's kinda.. odd..
Did India decide it was too cruel or something

That could be true too haha, since CNI has axed many anime before or censored the heck out of it if they decide to air it... But i think its delayed due to some regional language dubbing issues since toonami India is separate portal, it has nothing to do with toonami asia's content...

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Welp this is worrying. India didn't air the first episode sneak peak and it turns out Toonami India twitter and fb pages aren't official and every DBS post on the official Toonami Asia post is filled people asking about what's going on with India, they even posted a post asking what fans thoughts on episode 1 but the replies were just people asking about why it didn't air in India, furthermore the latest promo included times for Sing, Mai and Jkt but no India.... /; I'll find out in February for sure but not looking good at all.

Toonami asia and toonami india are two separate portals actually there schedule is different too,Toonami asia cover some of the asian countries so they air all of their programmes in english whereas toonami india along with english they telecast programmes in hindi,telugu and tamil (well telugu and tamil for only handful of shows) too... My guess is they are still dubbing DBS in regional languages so it's delayed!!! If DBS airs in India its definitely BZ dub that's for sure...

Okay thanks for clarification looks like my fears were true to an extent, still though I'm kind of curious about a potential Hindi dub... Could be interesting I remember visiting family and watching Z in Hindi all those years ago would be quite awesome if they can get that done for Super if that happens I won't care about the BZ Dub

...so, anyone got any shaky-cam clips of this? Apparently the first episode premiered in December, but if not, do we know anyone watching it over there that can get some clips when it starts on the 21st?

First episode did air back in December but unfortunately we got nothing at all, zip, nadda, nothing, not even a single comment, TAsia put a post asking what people thought and it was just filled with people asking why it didn't air in India. Not even a couple of clips surfaced (outside the official ones).

[Ki Breaker]

Welp this is worrying. India didn't air the first episode sneak peak and it turns out Toonami India twitter and fb pages aren't official and every DBS post on the official Toonami Asia post is filled people asking about what's going on with India, they even posted a post asking what fans thoughts on episode 1 but the replies were just people asking about why it didn't air in India, furthermore the latest promo included times for Sing, Mai and Jkt but no India.... /; I'll find out in February for sure but not looking good at all.

Toonami asia and toonami india are two separate portals actually there schedule is different too,Toonami asia cover some of the asian countries so they air all of their programmes in english whereas toonami india along with english they telecast programmes in hindi,telugu and tamil (well telugu and tamil for only handful of shows) too... My guess is they are still dubbing DBS in regional languages so it's delayed!!! If DBS airs in India its definitely BZ dub that's for sure...

Okay thanks for clarification looks like my fears were true to an extent, still though I'm kind of curious about a potential Hindi dub... Could be interesting I remember visiting family and watching Z in Hindi all those years ago would be quite awesome if they can get that done for Super if that happens I won't care about the BZ Dub

A Hindi dub you say..
Oh well, I get to see it in yet another language
Something to look forward to

[hulkedoutdude]

Welp this is worrying. India didn't air the first episode sneak peak and it turns out Toonami India twitter and fb pages aren't official and every DBS post on the official Toonami Asia post is filled people asking about what's going on with India, they even posted a post asking what fans thoughts on episode 1 but the replies were just people asking about why it didn't air in India, furthermore the latest promo included times for Sing, Mai and Jkt but no India.... /; I'll find out in February for sure but not looking good at all.

Toonami asia and toonami india are two separate portals actually there schedule is different too,Toonami asia cover some of the asian countries so they air all of their programmes in english whereas toonami india along with english they telecast programmes in hindi,telugu and tamil (well telugu and tamil for only handful of shows) too... My guess is they are still dubbing DBS in regional languages so it's delayed!!! If DBS airs in India its definitely BZ dub that's for sure...

Okay thanks for clarification looks like my fears were true to an extent, still though I'm kind of curious about a potential Hindi dub... Could be interesting I remember visiting family and watching Z in Hindi all those years ago would be quite awesome if they can get that done for Super if that happens I won't care about the BZ Dub

...so, anyone got any shaky-cam clips of this? Apparently the first episode premiered in December, but if not, do we know anyone watching it over there that can get some clips when it starts on the 21st?

First episode did air back in December but unfortunately we got nothing at all, zip, nadda, nothing, not even a single comment, TAsia put a post asking what people thought and it was just filled with people asking why it didn't air in India. Not even a couple of clips surfaced (outside the official ones).

Actually i prefer English dub since i grew up watching it, never saw hindi version except some clips on youtube (i thought it was decent)... but i noticed one thing about hindi dub is they took dialog scripts directly from english dub, that's why i am guessing that they started regional language dubbing it recently...

I tracked down someone who watched bz dub preview episode actually he said dub is very good and goku sounds awesome too... That's what got me super curious for bangzoom dub more than funimation haha (i know funimation would do awesome job anyway)...

[hulkedoutdude]

I might be a bit biased towards Bang zoom dub too since they have done awesome dub for shows like Mob psycho 100(user named Kirbopher aboves plays main character called reigen(he was born to play it)), one punch man, gundam, samurai champloo just to name a few... I know for a fact that these guys cut no corners when it comes to casting!!! So I am looking forward for their take on dragon ball super very much....

[huzaifa_ahmed]

Really? The difference between the DB dubs (the pre-Kai ones) and Funi's other dubs is that they stick close to the Japanese. And would it make any difference in quality if a DB dub was union? Union or non-union, it doesn't matter as long as the dub is good.

Again, my point isn't as much "It's dumb & automaticly worse for Murica to dub a show, as it's foreign art", but that, from the beginning, Toei's lack of funding for this dub gave it a serious issue with actor consistency, translation accuracy, quite likely music retainment, & acting talent (which they did have with Ocean for awhile). Relaxed & motivated actors also give better performances. As for unionization...the reason that unions are used regularly, from business standpoint, is quality actors. Unions, from a worker perspective, collectively bring them decent wages & conditions. Union rate is intended to be fair, not lavish. Clearly, from the misconceptions on this site, & mass acceptance of the DB dub, FUNi could certainly afford even "lavish" if they or especially Toei really wanted it. However, the real business is the licensing, the dub's just an afterthought in DB's case. I understand why it is, it's just that you really could do better if you let actors know, money-speaking, that they are a part of the show's success as well. Video game industry's learning it, but dubs have been a thing since the 60's, whereas game VO is maybe done seriously since 1990? Dubs are way behind on this thing.

[SaintEvolution]

Cannot this Archie Fletcher be the guy that dubbed Satou in english version of Netflix's original anime Ajin? Ajin was dubbed in Los Angeles too.

I mean, in the Ajin dub Sato's voice was one of the few voices of the main cast that weren't credited, and maybe he can be voicing Beerus in the Bang Zoom dub. I don't know.

[NitroEX]

Really? The difference between the DB dubs (the pre-Kai ones) and Funi's other dubs is that they stick close to the Japanese. And would it make any difference in quality if a DB dub was union? Union or non-union, it doesn't matter as long as the dub is good.

Pretty sure the biggest difference was also in the acting. And I would say yes, it probably would make a difference if a DB dub was union. Low paying anime dubs typically don't attract the best and most talented actors, particularly if the dubs are recorded in areas where acting talent don't congregate. Some might be willing to take a pay cut in order to do them (most likely because they're fans of anime or desperate for work) but for the most part there's very little to gain from having your name on anime credits.