Question about the Freeza Race?

[dragon boss z]

No he was at full power, Coola was stated to have mastered the finial augmentation form, and Goku never once stated what level of Kaio ken he was at

Cooler was never stated to be at full power nor was it stated he mastered his final form. Mecha Frieza also seemed to have his final form mastered and he was confirmed to not be at full power when he arrived.
And if it was never stated what kaioken Goku used why would you say x4 then? That is hypocritical. I'm saying he used x20 because it is only logical he would use his strongest kaioken. At the minimum I would say he was using x10.

Okay lets say that coola was at 50% of his full power, Goku was going toe, to toe with him in battle. No Mecha Freeza didn't have his finial form mastered, he was just at a lowered state of power.

Because Goku likes a good fight, and he was probably using kaio ken times by seven or something. Coola was the weakling of the family

Like I said it was never stated Cooler mastered his fourth form. And when he turned into his fifth form Goku said his ki was even greater than Frieza's so this confimrs 5th form Cooler is stronger than 100% Frieza.
And Goku wasn't looking for a good fight when fighting Cooler. He couldn't even put up a fight while using kaioken and his kaioken kamehameha was his last ditch effort of an attack before going ssj so it was most likely x20 just like what he used on Frieza.

Even if that was Cooler's full power in his fourth form it doesn't change how strong his final form is.

here are my estimates.

Namek
base Goku: 3 mil
suppressed Frieza: 4 mil
kaioken x20 Goku: 60 mil
50% Frieza: 60 mil
100% Frieza: 120 mil
ssj Goku: 150 mil


Movie 5
base Goku 3.5 mil
Cooler: 4 mil
Goku kaioken x20: 70 mil
final form Cooler: 140 mil
ssj Goku: 175 mil

[Gog]

Dunk a lunka, this is getting to big

Like I said it was never stated Cooler mastered his fourth form. And when he turned into his fifth form Goku said his ki was even greater than Frieza's so this confimrs 5th form Cooler is stronger than 100% Frieza.
And Goku wasn't looking for a good fight when fighting Cooler. He couldn't even put up a fight while using kaioken and his kaioken kamehameha was his last ditch effort of an attack before going ssj so it was most likely x20 just like what he used on Frieza.

Even if that was Cooler's full power in his fourth form it doesn't change how strong his final form is.

here are my estimates.

Namek
base Goku: 3 mil
suppressed Frieza: 4 mil
kaioken x20 Goku: 60 mil
50% Frieza: 60 mil
100% Frieza: 120 mil
ssj Goku: 150 mil


Movie 5
base Goku 3.5 mil
Cooler: 4 mil
Goku kaioken x20: 70 mil
final form Cooler: 140 mil
ssj Goku: 175 mil

Yeah I know, but it dosen't make any sense for Coola to be stronger than Freeza in his fifth form. Also in dragon ball z a 30% difference in power enables you to crush your opponent, so Freeza's numbers are off.

Namek
base Goku: 3 million
Freeza at a supprsed state: 6 million
Kaio ken full power: Obviously 60 million
Freeza half power: 75 million
Freeza at full power undamaged: 150 million
Ssj Goku undamaged, and not exausted: 150 million
Battle damaged Goku, and exausted goku: 118 million
battle damaged, spirit bombed full power Freeza starting out: 115 million

Movie 5
Base Goku: 3.2 million
Coola half power:15 million
(funsies Coola full power: 30 million)
fifth form Coola: 120
SSj Goku full power: 160 million

[dragon boss z]

I was going off the Daizenshuu numbers. Also Frieza is tougher than most and was expending a lot of power to keep up with Goku so I could see him being 20-30% weaker. The fight in the manga was really short and Frieza only got a couple good hits in. And Goku seemed to get a zenkai boost in movie 5 and he has been training so he shouldn't be less than 10% stronger than he was against Frieza. And like I said Frieza stated Cooler had more ki than Frieza did when Cooler transformed.

[Gog]

I was going off the Daizenshuu numbers. Also Frieza is tougher than most and was expending a lot of power to keep up with Goku so I could see him being 20-30% weaker. The fight in the manga was really short and Frieza only got a couple good hits in. And Goku seemed to get a zenkai boost in movie 5 and he has been training so he shouldn't be less than 10% stronger than he was against Frieza. And like I said Frieza stated Cooler had more ki than Frieza did when Cooler transformed.

Yeah I know but if Goku was 30% stronger than Freeza he would have blitzed him and one shot him, and Freeza would have been incapable of hitting Goku, I really believe that the reason why the fight was so short in the manga, was because Freeza's power was draining so rapidly. And if Goku had a 30% boost in power Freeza would have been incapable of harming him. I despise Zenkai's in there entirety so, I refuse to believe that. the reason why I have Goku at 10% stronger than Freeza as Vegeta was 10% stronger than Monster Zarbon, and was dominating him in battle, so that leads me to believe the actual bare minimum to stomping some one in canon is 10%.

Do you mean Goku? I think you mean Goku, anyway Freeza and Goku were both heavily damaged in their battle, so it would stand to reason that Coola would seem stronger

[dragon boss z]

I was going off the Daizenshuu numbers. Also Frieza is tougher than most and was expending a lot of power to keep up with Goku so I could see him being 20-30% weaker. The fight in the manga was really short and Frieza only got a couple good hits in. And Goku seemed to get a zenkai boost in movie 5 and he has been training so he shouldn't be less than 10% stronger than he was against Frieza. And like I said Frieza stated Cooler had more ki than Frieza did when Cooler transformed.

Yeah I know but if Goku was 30% stronger than Freeza he would have blitzed him and one shot him, and Freeza would have been incapable of hitting Goku, I really believe that the reason why the fight was so short in the manga, was because Freeza's power was draining so rapidly. And if Goku had a 30% boost in power Freeza would have been incapable of harming him. I despise Zenkai's in there entirety so, I refuse to believe that. the reason why I have Goku at 10% stronger than Freeza as Vegeta was 10% stronger than Monster Zarbon, and was dominating him in battle, so that leads me to believe the actual bare minimum to stomping some one in canon is 10%.

Do you mean Goku? I think you mean Goku, anyway Freeza and Goku were both heavily damaged in their battle, so it would stand to reason that Coola would seem stronger

No he wouldn't of. We already know for a 100% fact ssj Goku was at least twice as strong as 50% Frieza and he couldn't easily blitz and one shot him. He was even preparing a kamehameha to finish him off. Then 70% Frieza who was at least 30% weaker than Goku blasted ssj Goku back so hard he created a island sized explosion in the water.

And Vegeta only dominated monster Zarbon because he threw sand in his eye. Also Frieza seems to be more durable than other races. He got hit by Goku's x20 kamehameha and took little damage, he took a spirit bomb the face and kept fighting, he got cut in half and blasted by ssj Goku, then Namek blew up and he still survived with basically no ki left.

Also you have to remember Goku isn't the killer like Vegeta is. Goku likes to fight and doesn't want to kill his enemies quick.

Also another example is Raditz was almost 3x stronger than Goku and Piccolo yet he didn't blitz and one shot Goku and Piccolo.
Nappa was multiple times stronger than Krillin, but Krillin got some good hits in and dodged Nappa's attacks.
Vegeta was over 30% weaker than Recoome and didn't get blitzed and one shot.
Jeice was multiple times weaker than Vegeta and he lasted a few pannels.

[Gog]

No he wouldn't of. We already know for a 100% fact ssj Goku was at least twice as strong as 50% Frieza and he couldn't easily blitz and one shot him. He was even preparing a kamehameha to finish him off. Then 70% Frieza who was at least 30% weaker than Goku blasted ssj Goku back so hard he created a island sized explosion in the water.

And Vegeta only dominated monster Zarbon because he threw sand in his eye. Also Frieza seems to be more durable than other races. He got hit by Goku's x20 kamehameha and took little damage, he took a spirit bomb the face and kept fighting, he got cut in half and blasted by ssj Goku, then Namek blew up and he still survived with basically no ki left.

Also you have to remember Goku isn't the killer like Vegeta is. Goku likes to fight and doesn't want to kill his enemies quick.

Also another example is Raditz was almost 3x stronger than Goku and Piccolo yet he didn't blitz and one shot Goku and Piccolo.
Nappa was multiple times stronger than Krillin, but Krillin got some good hits in and dodged Nappa's attacks.
Vegeta was over 30% weaker than Recoome and didn't get blitzed and one shot.
Jeice was multiple times weaker than Vegeta and he lasted a few pannels.

No but here's the thing Goku wouldn't be harmed by Freeza is their was a 30% difference between their power's, I would like you to reread the raditz V piccolo and Goku battle, Goku was capable of harnessing all of his power into a single point and firing it at Raditz, this Kamehameha had a power level of over 900, Raditz took it without it even damaging him, like the champ that he is.

Yes but Vegeta threw the sand into Zarbon's eyes to mock him, because immediately afterwards he was teleporting around him, and making a fool of him, Bringer of Death did solve why a ten percent was such a big difference in power, it basically came down to this, a ten percent difference is the bare minimum for a stomp, because your ten percent stronger, faster, can see ten percent better, ten percent more durable. But your opponent is ten percent weaker, ten percent slower, ten percent can't see as good as you, and ten percent less durable as you.

But that doesn't account for the fact that a 30% difference is a god stomp in akira Toriyama's world, also freeza was faster than Goku the whole time, and that wouldn't have been possible if their was a 30% difference.

Those fighters were all being played around with, Freeza and Goku were giving it their all

[dragon boss z]

No but here's the thing Goku wouldn't be harmed by Freeza is their was a 30% difference between their power's, I would like you to reread the raditz V piccolo and Goku battle, Goku was capable of harnessing all of his power into a single point and firing it at Raditz, this Kamehameha had a power level of over 900, Raditz took it without it even damaging him, like the champ that he is.

Yes but Vegeta threw the sand into Zarbon's eyes to mock him, because immediately afterwards he was teleporting around him, and making a fool of him, Bringer of Death did solve why a ten percent was such a big difference in power, it basically came down to this, a ten percent difference is the bare minimum for a stomp, because your ten percent stronger, faster, can see ten percent better, ten percent more durable. But your opponent is ten percent weaker, ten percent slower, ten percent can't see as good as you, and ten percent less durable as you.

But that doesn't account for the fact that a 30% difference is a god stomp in akira Toriyama's world, also freeza was faster than Goku the whole time, and that wouldn't have been possible if their was a 30% difference.

Those fighters were all being played around with, Freeza and Goku were giving it their all

First off Frieza isnt 30% weaker than Goku. That would be 105 million. He is exactly 20% weaker which is 120 million. You are right 30% weaker would be a massive stomp. 105 million would be like when Frieza lost most of his power.

Frieza never seriously hurt ssj Goku. He gave Goku a massive combo and Goku was barely phased, and later he struck Goku into the ocean at full power and Goku just came right back up. Also it was stated Goku was stalling. And Frieza isn't like the rest of his men. He can control his ki much better and most likely can amplify it. His body is also more durable.

[Gog]

First off Frieza isnt 30% weaker than Goku. That would be 105 million. He is exactly 20% weaker which is 120 million. You are right 30% weaker would be a massive stomp. 105 million would be like when Frieza lost most of his power.

Frieza never seriously hurt ssj Goku. He gave Goku a massive combo and Goku was barely phased, and later he struck Goku into the ocean at full power and Goku just came right back up. Also it was stated Goku was stalling. And Frieza isn't like the rest of his men. He can control his ki much better and most likely can amplify it. His body is also more durable.

No he would be 30% weaker, Goku is 150 million, and freeza is 120, there was also the problem with Freeza being seriously damaged from the spirit bomb, and Goku being tired from the kaio ken. that combo Freeza did to was him only warming up, no seriously Goku even guessed it. And if i'm going to be honest Goku did even admit that Freeza was stronger than him, in fact Freeza was fighting well with Goku before, he went and ran off to the namekian dragon. After that it all went down hill, because Freeza even admitted that if he got hit by the planet exploding he would have lost even more power

[dragon boss z]

No he would be 30% weaker, Goku is 150 million, and freeza is 120, there was also the problem with Freeza being seriously damaged from the spirit bomb, and Goku being tired from the kaio ken. that combo Freeza did to was him only warming up, no seriously Goku even guessed it. And if i'm going to be honest Goku did even admit that Freeza was stronger than him, in fact Freeza was fighting well with Goku before, he went and ran off to the namekian dragon. After that it all went down hill, because Freeza even admitted that if he got hit by the planet exploding he would have lost even more power

Bruh I used a calculator.... 120 is 20% of 150...

Frieza saying that was only a warm up was just him bragging. He was already out of breath and tired. And then Goku said if that was Frieza's full power he would of been disappointed. Goku was making fun of Frieza, he didn't guess he was warming up.

And Goku never admitted Frieza was stronger than him, I don't know where you got that.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Guys. Please take 10 seconds to preview your posts and make sure you're editing your quotes correctly when replying. I appreciate that you want to prevent them from being long chains, but it just makes more work if you don't keep them clean and accurate in the process. Most of this page had empty tags you could have just removed, or had text attributed to the wrong person.

Thanks.

[TheUltimateNinja]

No he would be 30% weaker, Goku is 150 million, and freeza is 120, there was also the problem with Freeza being seriously damaged from the spirit bomb, and Goku being tired from the kaio ken. that combo Freeza did to was him only warming up, no seriously Goku even guessed it. And if i'm going to be honest Goku did even admit that Freeza was stronger than him, in fact Freeza was fighting well with Goku before, he went and ran off to the namekian dragon. After that it all went down hill, because Freeza even admitted that if he got hit by the planet exploding he would have lost even more power

Bruh I used a calculator.... 120 is 20% of 150...

Frieza saying that was only a warm up was just him bragging. He was already out of breath and tired. And then Goku said if that was Frieza's full power he would of been disappointed. Goku was making fun of Frieza, he didn't guess he was warming up.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
And Goku never admitted Frieza was stronger than him, I don't know where you got that.

The difference is actually 25%. 120 is 80% of 150, 80 * 1.25 makes 100.

Anyway, you're right. Later on in the fight Goku says that Frieza's boring him and he doesn't want to fight anymore, this shows that Goku is clearly a great deal stronger than Frieza.

[Gog]

No he would be 30% weaker, Goku is 150 million, and freeza is 120, there was also the problem with Freeza being seriously damaged from the spirit bomb, and Goku being tired from the kaio ken. that combo Freeza did to was him only warming up, no seriously Goku even guessed it. And if i'm going to be honest Goku did even admit that Freeza was stronger than him, in fact Freeza was fighting well with Goku before, he went and ran off to the namekian dragon. After that it all went down hill, because Freeza even admitted that if he got hit by the planet exploding he would have lost even more power

Bruh I used a calculator.... 120 is 20% of 150...

Frieza saying that was only a warm up was just him bragging. He was already out of breath and tired. And then Goku said if that was Frieza's full power he would of been disappointed. Goku was making fun of Frieza, he didn't guess he was warming up.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
And Goku never admitted Frieza was stronger than him, I don't know where you got that.

The difference is actually 25%. 120 is 80% of 150, 80 * 1.25 makes 100.

Anyway, you're right. Later on in the fight Goku says that Frieza's boring him and he doesn't want to fight anymore, this shows that Goku is clearly a great deal stronger than Frieza.

No, he never a great deal stronger than Freeza, later on he even outright states that Freeza has been losing his strength over time. Also Freeza was heavily damaged from the spirit bomb. Which I do admit would affect the battle between him and Freeza. At the end of the battle when Goku tells him to go, he only tells him to brush up his skills, learn new tricks, and fix up that stamina problem. They were basically equals in strength

[Gog]

No he would be 30% weaker, Goku is 150 million, and freeza is 120, there was also the problem with Freeza being seriously damaged from the spirit bomb, and Goku being tired from the kaio ken. that combo Freeza did to was him only warming up, no seriously Goku even guessed it. And if i'm going to be honest Goku did even admit that Freeza was stronger than him, in fact Freeza was fighting well with Goku before, he went and ran off to the namekian dragon. After that it all went down hill, because Freeza even admitted that if he got hit by the planet exploding he would have lost even more power

Bruh I used a calculator.... 120 is 20% of 150...

Frieza saying that was only a warm up was just him bragging. He was already out of breath and tired. And then Goku said if that was Frieza's full power he would of been disappointed. Goku was making fun of Frieza, he didn't guess he was warming up.

And Goku never admitted Frieza was stronger than him, I don't know where you got that.

Then I never realized that Freeza's stamina was that terrible. Besides the two of them were equals, with son Goku having the slight upper hand the entire time, as Freeza was damaged

[dragon boss z]

No he would be 30% weaker, Goku is 150 million, and freeza is 120, there was also the problem with Freeza being seriously damaged from the spirit bomb, and Goku being tired from the kaio ken. that combo Freeza did to was him only warming up, no seriously Goku even guessed it. And if i'm going to be honest Goku did even admit that Freeza was stronger than him, in fact Freeza was fighting well with Goku before, he went and ran off to the namekian dragon. After that it all went down hill, because Freeza even admitted that if he got hit by the planet exploding he would have lost even more power

Bruh I used a calculator.... 120 is 20% of 150...

Frieza saying that was only a warm up was just him bragging. He was already out of breath and tired. And then Goku said if that was Frieza's full power he would of been disappointed. Goku was making fun of Frieza, he didn't guess he was warming up.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
And Goku never admitted Frieza was stronger than him, I don't know where you got that.

The difference is actually 25%. 120 is 80% of 150, 80 * 1.25 makes 100.

Anyway, you're right. Later on in the fight Goku says that Frieza's boring him and he doesn't want to fight anymore, this shows that Goku is clearly a great deal stronger than Frieza.

You just said 120 is 80% of 150 but then the difference is 25%... You realize 100%-80% is 20% right? lol

[dragon boss z]

No he would be 30% weaker, Goku is 150 million, and freeza is 120, there was also the problem with Freeza being seriously damaged from the spirit bomb, and Goku being tired from the kaio ken. that combo Freeza did to was him only warming up, no seriously Goku even guessed it. And if i'm going to be honest Goku did even admit that Freeza was stronger than him, in fact Freeza was fighting well with Goku before, he went and ran off to the namekian dragon. After that it all went down hill, because Freeza even admitted that if he got hit by the planet exploding he would have lost even more power

Bruh I used a calculator.... 120 is 20% of 150...

Frieza saying that was only a warm up was just him bragging. He was already out of breath and tired. And then Goku said if that was Frieza's full power he would of been disappointed. Goku was making fun of Frieza, he didn't guess he was warming up.

And Goku never admitted Frieza was stronger than him, I don't know where you got that.

Then I never realized that Freeza's stamina was that terrible. Besides the two of them were equals, with son Goku having the slight upper hand the entire time, as Freeza was damaged

They are in the same power tier, but they aren't equals. The whole point of ssj was that it's stronger than Frieza. Not by much, but enough to decisively win.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Bruh I used a calculator.... 120 is 20% of 150...

Frieza saying that was only a warm up was just him bragging. He was already out of breath and tired. And then Goku said if that was Frieza's full power he would of been disappointed. Goku was making fun of Frieza, he didn't guess he was warming up.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
And Goku never admitted Frieza was stronger than him, I don't know where you got that.

The difference is actually 25%. 120 is 80% of 150, 80 * 1.25 makes 100.

Anyway, you're right. Later on in the fight Goku says that Frieza's boring him and he doesn't want to fight anymore, this shows that Goku is clearly a great deal stronger than Frieza.

You just said 120 is 80% of 150 but then the difference is 25%... You realize 100%-80% is 20% right? lol

150 million is 25% higher than 120 million.

You don't go by lower otherwise no gap would be above 100%, and 0 to any number would be a 100% gap.

[dragon boss z]

The difference is actually 25%. 120 is 80% of 150, 80 * 1.25 makes 100.

Anyway, you're right. Later on in the fight Goku says that Frieza's boring him and he doesn't want to fight anymore, this shows that Goku is clearly a great deal stronger than Frieza.

You just said 120 is 80% of 150 but then the difference is 25%... You realize 100%-80% is 20% right? lol

150 million is 25% higher than 120 million.

You don't go by lower otherwise no gap would be above 100%, and 0 to any number would be a 100% gap.

Well ya it depends on who's power you go off of. 150 is 125% of 120 but 120 is 80% of 120.
Either way it's less than 30%.

[TheUltimateNinja]

You just said 120 is 80% of 150 but then the difference is 25%... You realize 100%-80% is 20% right? lol

150 million is 25% higher than 120 million.

You don't go by lower otherwise no gap would be above 100%, and 0 to any number would be a 100% gap.

Well ya it depends on who's power you go off of. 150 is 125% of 120 but 120 is 80% of 120.
Either way it's less than 30%.

I prefer to use the smaller number, but anyway, the point is that in the manga the fight is a lot more one sided. Goku is clearly superior to Frieza, it's the anime that makes it look like they're equals.

[Darkprince410]

Then I never realized that Freeza's stamina was that terrible. Besides the two of them were equals, with son Goku having the slight upper hand the entire time, as Freeza was damaged

Goku was also damaged though, as you recall. As far as the manga goes, virtually the entire fight was in Goku's favor. Apart from that brief attack on Goku, which was clearly something Goku let happen, the only real hit Freeza got on Goku was the one when he flew out from in front of Goku's Kamehameha and caught him with a blow from the side. But even then, Goku was out of the picture for only a very brief time, and the rest of the fight was predominantly Freeza being on the receiving end of most of the punishment, in comparison to the anime's depiction of things, where they were blow for blow for a good while.

[Gog]

Bruh I used a calculator.... 120 is 20% of 150...

Frieza saying that was only a warm up was just him bragging. He was already out of breath and tired. And then Goku said if that was Frieza's full power he would of been disappointed. Goku was making fun of Frieza, he didn't guess he was warming up.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
And Goku never admitted Frieza was stronger than him, I don't know where you got that.

The difference is actually 25%. 120 is 80% of 150, 80 * 1.25 makes 100.

Anyway, you're right. Later on in the fight Goku says that Frieza's boring him and he doesn't want to fight anymore, this shows that Goku is clearly a great deal stronger than Frieza.

You just said 120 is 80% of 150 but then the difference is 25%... You realize 100%-80% is 20% right? lol

Oh fuck, I meant 30% , but apparently its 25%, i'd actually put Freeza at 47 million, or 49 million, Goku has the upper hand, but not by much