Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[dhaval_dongre]

Wow I didn't know all of this ,Toei gets a bad rep. I said that about Bahi because he's also abstract like Tate and fans might say it doesn't look like dragon ball. Yeah Toei has some talent too but they're busy on other projects so I guess we can discuss all we want but in the end we'll just have to wait and watch. I think Toei will start another saint seiya or something.

I think they are gonna do a Saint Seiya anime, which I don't mind at all. Just hope that they start it after one of their main series end, most probably which they will anyway. But many fear that Saint Seiya might prise away many of Super's staff, I don't think that will be the case considering how well Super is doing and them going as far doing 10 weeks worth of filler just to get the production back on track. But the issue might be getting some additional important animators from their other ongoing series who might move onto work for Saint Seiya. But still too early to confirm anything, lets hope for the best.

Edit: Its a shame really that so many people spread misinformation about Toei despite knowing nothing about them.

[gohan_black]

One of the things i hate most in super is how they removed all the muscles from goku vegeta and gohan. Absulutly hate it. I hate skinny hands and legs in db super

[ArchedThunder]

One of the things i hate most in super is how they removed all the muscles from goku vegeta and gohan. Absulutly hate it. I hate skinny hands and legs in db super

This is not a thing, they didn't "remove all the muscles".
Sometimes they are drawn thinner than they were at certain times in Z, but Z was also wildly inconsistent with muscle size.

[Gashif Aldi]

One of the things i hate most in super is how they removed all the muscles from goku vegeta and gohan. Absulutly hate it. I hate skinny hands and legs in db super

Blame it at Yamamuro. He's the character designer.
But, really. These kinds of comments/posts are everywhere.

[Nejishiki]

Do you know the interview where he says that he was quite impressed with the work of the animation back in Z? I don't remember which one was

I don't think he ever said anything in detail about animation. Maybe there's some new interview, but as far as I know he never spoke in detail about animation cause he doesn't know much about it.

I remember reading his and Nakatsuru's interview where he said he didn't know the difference between keyframes and in-betweens.

Were you doing in-between animation at the time?
Nakatsuru:
No, I was doing key frames.

Toriyama:
Huh? What are key frames and in-between animation?

Nakatsuru:
Key frames are the drawings that make up the main points of the movements in the animation, while in-between animation draws the images that make up the movements between them. The action and timing are determined by the key frames. There are key framers and in-betweeners, and the work is divided up between them.

Toriyama:
Ah, so that's how it's made.

Nakatsuru:
Dragon Ball was way back, not long after I got started, so I was always drawing intently, worrying all the while.

[...]

(Recorded 21 August 2003, at Toriyama-sensei's home)

[Mazingerdestro]

Do you know the interview where he says that he was quite impressed with the work of the animation back in Z? I don't remember which one was

I remember this one. It was back in db I think way before z. They explain him how many drawings a single scene requires and he was like "nope nope nope I don't want to draw that much"

One of the things i hate most in super is how they removed all the muscles from goku vegeta and gohan. Absulutly hate it. I hate skinny hands and legs in db super

Blame it at Yamamuro. He's the character designer.
But, really. These kinds of comments/posts are everywhere.

But Yamamuro's designs do have muscles. Most of his characters are directly drawn from buu saga. That also explains why Goku is muscular in Super when characters like Black or Trunks (that are designed based on redesigns based on Toriyama's new habit of making the characters skinny) are skinny

Edit: Its a shame really that so many people spread misinformation about Toei despite knowing nothing about them.

Indeed. I once found a video online that was saying "Toei animation animators are incapable of drawing Cell's spots and I can prove it I HAVE INTERVIEWS" then I gently contacted the person and asked for some links. He ignored me for around 2 months and then a random comment asked something like "did you get the links you asked?" and I replied "no because the guy is spreading bs" (you know what I mean. Some kid with a name like "otaku-something" that makes videos with fast editing) and then the original video creator replied and started insulting me, for asking for the proof that he mentioned in his videos. Bottom line. After around 20-30 bs comments he never gave any interviews or links and his latest comment was "I can't stand fanboys"....

[dhaval_dongre]

One of the things i hate most in super is how they removed all the muscles from goku vegeta and gohan. Absulutly hate it. I hate skinny hands and legs in db super

Blame it at Yamamuro. He's the character designer.
But, really. These kinds of comments/posts are everywhere.

There are a few things that I will like to share. Modern Toriyama designs are much thinner than they used to be. The designs in the 'Jaco the Galactic Patrolman' manga, the Super Saiyan God design from the BoG movie or even the recent Trunks and Goku Black designs from the FT arc in Super are good examples of this. Yamamuro's and Toyotaro's models are based on this designs. Its obvious IMO that Yamamuro hasn't tinkered too much with Toriyama's designs with regards to the body shape. The same goes for Toyotaro. The average muscle size of characters from Z is higher than that from Super, but I don't mind it at all. Toriyama's current designs are much closer to actual martial artists in terms of shape. (That's how I try to see it anyway). The size of your muscles never conveys how strong you are. With time Toriyama's designs have changed, whether its for good or not, its up to you to decide. But it is what it is and I don't mind it at all.

[dhaval_dongre]

Edit: Its a shame really that so many people spread misinformation about Toei despite knowing nothing about them.

Indeed. I once found a video online that was saying "Toei animation animators are incapable of drawing Cell's spots and I can prove it I HAVE INTERVIEWS" then I gently contacted the person and asked for some links. He ignored me for around 2 months and then a random comment asked something like "did you get the links you asked?" and I replied "no because the guy is spreading bs" (you know what I mean. Some kid with a name like "otaku-something" that makes videos with fast editing) and then the original video creator replied and started insulting me, for asking for the proof that he mentioned in his videos. Bottom line. After around 20-30 bs comments he never gave any interviews or links and his latest comment was "I can't stand fanboys"....

That's really horrible. Fake news and misinformation is a serious issue plaguing the internet.

[Gashif Aldi]

Don't misunderstand me. Yammamuro is the one who is responsible with the Character Designs. But, it lacked a lot. Sometimes I enjoyed it, sometimes it's just really plain-looking. The details does look good, but it doesn't feel lively.
Like RoF and BoG movie was awesome. But, it feels like it lack something. Something about fluidity. I feel like Z movies is more fluid than Modern Z Movies.
I don't know. It feels like it's a rainbow with one colour.

[iAnimationLover_]

Don't misunderstand me. Yammamuro is the one who is responsible with the Character Designs. But, it lacked a lot. Sometimes I enjoyed it, sometimes it's just really plain-looking. The details does look good, but it doesn't feel lively.
Like RoF and BoG movie was awesome. But, it feels like it lack something. Something about fluidity. I feel like Z movies is more fluid than Modern Z Movies.
I don't know. It feels like it's a rainbow with one colour.

It lacks emotion is what youre saying, right?

[Gashif Aldi]

Don't misunderstand me. Yammamuro is the one who is responsible with the Character Designs. But, it lacked a lot. Sometimes I enjoyed it, sometimes it's just really plain-looking. The details does look good, but it doesn't feel lively.
Like RoF and BoG movie was awesome. But, it feels like it lack something. Something about fluidity. I feel like Z movies is more fluid than Modern Z Movies.
I don't know. It feels like it's a rainbow with one colour.

It lacks emotion is what youre saying, right?

Yes, that's actually a big factor. Like, all of the emotions are the same.
But, there's more to it. Like sometimes the fighing scene doesn't feel special at all, because all of them looked the same except that Shida part in BoG.
Like, the movie was made by 1 person. The scenes where Vegeta got beaten by Beerus is pretty fast paced and good looking, but it feel like somehow plain-looking.

Well, that's my opinion. I mean, I don't mind Yammamuro animating. His habits are the problem. I feel like instead of correcting all of them, he can just partially correct it. Since all of the staff is probably already focused on the Character Designs, there's no need to correct it heavily.

[BrandonR24]

Hey guys i tried to make this scene of the SSJ2 Goku vs Black fight faster, i've also added some black/white frames and zoom effects to make the impact of the punches a little bit "stronger". I know it's such a detail compared to how the ANIMATION actually is, but do you think Dragon Ball Super fights would look better if they used this kind of stuff?

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

This is sick, great work. I wouldn't mind little details like this again. It would probably take away from episodes that lack in the art department.

[Noah]

I don't think he ever said anything in detail about animation. Maybe there's some new interview, but as far as I know he never spoke in detail about animation cause he doesn't know much about it.

I remember reading his and Nakatsuru's interview where he said he didn't know the difference between keyframes and in-betweens.

Damn, I remember something similar, that he said they did a good job back then animating the fast movements and such, I wonder if Ajay knows something about

[FortuneSSJ]

One of the things i hate most in super is how they removed all the muscles from goku vegeta and gohan. Absulutly hate it. I hate skinny hands and legs in db super

Blame it at Yamamuro. He's the character designer.

I think we are all on the same boat here?! and nobody wants to see his favourite DB character become anorexic, but that's not only Yamamuro's fault.
The main culprit is Toriyama's new style and that influence was carried for the anime and manga. You can also check Toyotaro's ROF version and see how skinny Gohan looks there.

Other examples are the DB Heroes trailers. The characters have muscles and look right there, because they don't use Toriyama's new style as reference.
I also don't believe if new character like Cabba, a Saiyan, was released back then he would still look like a stick.

[Alee9977]

One of the things i hate most in super is how they removed all the muscles from goku vegeta and gohan. Absulutly hate it. I hate skinny hands and legs in db super

Blame it at Yamamuro. He's the character designer.

I think we are all on the same boat here?! and nobody wants to see his favourite DB character become anorexic, but that's not only Yamamuro's fault.
The main culprit is Toriyama's new style and that influence was carried for the anime and manga. You can also check Toyotaro's ROF version and see how skinny Gohan looks there.

Other examples are the DB Heroes trailers. The characters have muscles and look right there, because they don't use Toriyama's new style as reference.
I also don't believe if new character like Cabba, a Saiyan, was released back then he would still look like a stick.

I think even Beerus would have looked different with old Toriyama's style, although, I still like his new designs, Hit for example.

[FortuneSSJ]

I think even Beerus would have looked different with old Toriyama's style, although, I still like his new designs, Hit for example.

Toriyama can still create wonderful characters, with Beerus and Whis being his new biggest gems. I can't even look back to DB cast without seeing these two nowadays.
He's also still a fantastic stylist - Goku's ROF gi, Bulma's ROF outfit, FT Trunks new battle and casual clothes are some examples.

The only problem I have with is new style his exactly how he makes everyone anorexic. DB Minus looks terrible and that's why I was glad someone as Toyotaro was chosen to do the art for Super manga.

[emperior]

I think even Beerus would have looked different with old Toriyama's style, although, I still like his new designs, Hit for example.

Toriyama can still create wonderful characters, with Beerus and Whis being his new biggest gems. I can't even look back to DB cast without seeing these two nowadays.
He's also still a fantastic stylist - Goku's ROF gi, Bulma's ROF outfit, FT Trunks new battle and casual clothes are some examples.

The only problem I have with is new style his exactly how he makes everyone anorexic. DB Minus looks terrible and that's why I was glad someone as Toyotaro was chosen to do the art for Super manga.

I must be crazy to think Minus looks good. The only problem I have is everyone has skinny legs.
Besides that Toriyama's muscle anatomy is on point. It always was but now characters have realistic muscle and look more like warriors and less like bodybuilders

[Gashif Aldi]

One of the things i hate most in super is how they removed all the muscles from goku vegeta and gohan. Absulutly hate it. I hate skinny hands and legs in db super

Blame it at Yamamuro. He's the character designer.

I think we are all on the same boat here?! and nobody wants to see his favourite DB character become anorexic, but that's not only Yamamuro's fault.
The main culprit is Toriyama's new style and that influence was carried for the anime and manga. You can also check Toyotaro's ROF version and see how skinny Gohan looks there.

Other examples are the DB Heroes trailers. The characters have muscles and look right there, because they don't use Toriyama's new style as reference.
I also don't believe if new character like Cabba, a Saiyan, was released back then he would still look like a stick.

I actually really liked Toriyama/Toyotaro's style.
The shading of the muscles look appealing.
I mean it's pretty much the animation industry that made Dragon Ball to be Modern Dragon Ball.

[gohan_black]

One of the things i hate most in super is how they removed all the muscles from goku vegeta and gohan. Absulutly hate it. I hate skinny hands and legs in db super

Blame it at Yamamuro. He's the character designer.
But, really. These kinds of comments/posts are everywhere.

finally i have an acsess to computer so i can explain in detail whats so wrong with db super.

ok look. il be honest i dont have a clue on whats going on behind the scenes in db super production but it honestly dosent matter to me whos doing what and all that. what matter to me is the final result. now you guys mention the blu ray a lot. from what I've seen so far the blu ray dosent fix much. they fixed a lot on episode 5 because it was the most infamous but the rest they bearly improved anything. and if they did its just went from horrible to just plain bad. but anyway. what i said about the charecters not heaving muscles anymore. its not even that. the proportions are all fucked up. dragon ball z and gt had a tradition of charecters looking lets call it ''complete'' and now in db super the inconsisity is really the problem. my ablulute worst episode maybe in all of dragon ball history is episode 14 of super. look at that.







now when the goku black arc started both goku and vegeta bodies had a much closer design to the one on z. they werent super muscler but they dident had chicken legs and hands

so why am i bitching now? because after the animation improved drasticlly episode 72 came and it was a huge downfall all the way to the begining. and btw. 71 looked great. but 72 looked so bad that i fear now that show would be back to the beerus and frieza arc quality.

now you all say its filler but it isnt. it was a mini arc. an importent episode. hit vs goku rematch. with drama and story. and you can be sure the manga would cover it because like i said its not really filler. the gohan movie episode. that was filler. the arale episode. this was filler. 71 and 72 is where you'd expect the best animation possibble

so you cant be searios when you say 72 had good animation. come on..

http://pho.to/AaRQ3

if fans would give good feedback to that abomination then toei would not try improve and give the best product like they did with the goku black arc.

and i know that episode had some good close ups but those close up shots are the most easy to make and they are the least importent. if you can make the charecters look normal from distance then its a sign your animation is bad.

[Ajay]

ok look. il be honest i dont have a clue on whats going on behind the scenes in db super production but it honestly dosent matter to me whos doing what and all that.

It should matter to you.

That's what this thread exists for; it's a very important factor in understanding why things are the way they are at times, and being to able to approach the subject from an informed point of view, rather than sticking to ill-informed rants.

Nobody can have a conversation with you if you're not willing to do a tiny bit of groundwork.

and i know that episode had some good close ups but those close up shots are the most easy to make and they are the least importent. if you can make the charecters look normal from distance then its a sign your animation is bad.

Characters in the distance do not matter, nor do they have anything to do with the quality of the animation. This is a staple of animation across all shows.

Ask questions, be willing to learn, and everyone will do their best. Don't make the mistake of flying in here with damning rants and expecting to be taken seriously. That's just not how things run around here.

I appreciate that's harsh, but this happens far too often. This isn't a social media dumping ground.