The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[dragon boss z]

Well I came to that conclusion because in the past when Goku has trained he has become significantly stronger, for example in just six days Goku went from 8,000 to 90,0000 on his way to Namek, that is an insane increase in power in just six days, another example is Goku going from 416 to 8,000 in 158 days on King Kai's Planet. Due to these feats I can't see why Goku cannot pull off a similar feat of growing that much stronger in 22 years of training. I wouldn't say that Goku becoming stronger than Teen Gohan at the cell games is a small feat either, after all at the cell games when Gohan transformed he was not only more powerful due to the SSJ2 multiplier which made him as strong as super perfect cell but also he becomes 2x stronger than that due to rage which means he is 4x stronger due to SSJ2 and rage, that way when Gohan's ki is halved it is not completely unbelievable that Gohan is able to overwhelm Cell. As a result Goku becoming stronger than that Gohan is quite a big feat. As for Beerus how could he determine whether Goku could beat Frieza in his base just by tapping him and even if he could Goku would likely be suppressed as he likely tried to suppress himself when he was in King Kai's House because he was trying to hide from Beerus. But suppose your right by saying Goku could not beat Frieza, Beerus states "It doesn't appear to me like you could defeat him as you are" Beerus does not flat out state that Goku could not under any circumstance beat Frieza and seems somewhat unsure, this implies to me that Goku is at least somewhat close to Frieza. That stills leaves six years for Goku to get stronger than Frieza and Cooler which I believe is possible due to the previous training feats that I have listed. But I do agree that kaioken Goku would win against Cooler, not that I would think he would need it.

The more you train the harder it is to get stronger. When you go to the gym and start lifting weights you will get strong quick, but after a while your gains will slow.
Also in the Daizenshuu it states after the Frieza saga they stopped getting big zenkai boosts and focused more on transformations.

In both BoG and Super they have the line of Goku not being able to beat Frieza while in base so I don't really see why we shouldn't take it at face value considering their is nothing that contradicts it. After absorbing god ki though Goku's base is much stronger than Frieza now.

I don't believe that statement applies to Dragon Ball as the main characters' gains actually increase quite significantly as the series progresses, just compare Dragon Ball's earlier arcs to the Saiyan Arc onwards. The gains in those early arcs were quite slow until the saiyan arc where the characters gained more power more quickly than they ever could have before many of those instances were achieved without zenkais. The characters may have shifted their focus to transformations however to actually achieve some of those transformations those characters had to push their limits and become stronger to achieve it. Just look at Gohan, he had to train with Goku in order to achieve Super Saiyan. We did not see Goku's training in the afterlife so we can't assume that Goku did not have to push his limits and become stronger to achieve SSJ3 especially because of how he was able to surpass SSJ2 Teen Gohan. Just because they stopped getting zenkais doesn't mean they cannot get replicate the training feats they were able to achieve without the aid of zenkais, for example Goku on King Kai's planet or Goku on the way to Namek.

There is really no evidence Goku's base got over 50x stronger though. I think he got more like 10x stronger. Goku at most only could of gotten a couple times stronger in the 7 year time gap, and I highly doubt Goku got like 25x stronger in the android arc.
It's possible his base got stronger than Frieza, but with the lack of evidence plus Beerus' statement it makes more sense to say Frieza is stronger.

[dragon boss z]

But after sparring with Goku, Trunks told him that Black was even stronger than him, and when Vegeta fights Black he says he's stronger than Goku too. It's clearly implied that SSJ2 Vegeta is far above Goku.

Also, SSJ Goku was definitely at least close to SSBlue Vegeta since Hit's timeskip doesn't work on people who are much stronger than him.

Hit: 10
SSJ Goku: 10.5
SSBlue Vegeta (10%): 12

Vegeta never said Black was stronger than Goku. He said he could see how ssj Vegeta could beat Trunks. And Trunks said Black was stronger than himself, not Goku.

And ssj Goku was confirmed weaker than Hit in the manga. Time stop doesn't work on opponents stronger than Hit and it only stopped working after Goku went SSG.

ssj Goku<=>10% SSB Vegeta<Hit<SSG Goku<full power SSB

[TheUltimateNinja]

But after sparring with Goku, Trunks told him that Black was even stronger than him, and when Vegeta fights Black he says he's stronger than Goku too. It's clearly implied that SSJ2 Vegeta is far above Goku.

Also, SSJ Goku was definitely at least close to SSBlue Vegeta since Hit's timeskip doesn't work on people who are much stronger than him.

Hit: 10
SSJ Goku: 10.5
SSBlue Vegeta (10%): 12

Vegeta never said Black was stronger than Goku. He said he could see how ssj Vegeta could beat Trunks. And Trunks said Black was stronger than himself, not Goku.

And ssj Goku was confirmed weaker than Hit in the manga. Time stop doesn't work on opponents stronger than Hit and it only stopped working after Goku went SSG.

ssj Goku<=>10% SSB Vegeta<Hit<SSG Goku<full power SSB

Trunks did say that, though. When he used that ascended SSJ2 form he became as strong as SSJ3 Goku, even Vegeta verifies this, but then Trunks says even that kind of power is fodder to Black.

And after Vegeta fights Black he says judging by his power he's much further along in the future than our Goku, this also confirms that his power is higher than Goku.

And SSJ Goku was above Hit in raw power, Beerus said that the only reason Hit was able to keep up was because of the timeskip.

[dragon boss z]

But after sparring with Goku, Trunks told him that Black was even stronger than him, and when Vegeta fights Black he says he's stronger than Goku too. It's clearly implied that SSJ2 Vegeta is far above Goku.

Also, SSJ Goku was definitely at least close to SSBlue Vegeta since Hit's timeskip doesn't work on people who are much stronger than him.

Hit: 10
SSJ Goku: 10.5
SSBlue Vegeta (10%): 12

Vegeta never said Black was stronger than Goku. He said he could see how ssj Vegeta could beat Trunks. And Trunks said Black was stronger than himself, not Goku.

And ssj Goku was confirmed weaker than Hit in the manga. Time stop doesn't work on opponents stronger than Hit and it only stopped working after Goku went SSG.

ssj Goku<=>10% SSB Vegeta<Hit<SSG Goku<full power SSB

Trunks did say that, though. When he used that ascended SSJ2 form he became as strong as SSJ3 Goku, even Vegeta verifies this, but then Trunks says even that kind of power is fodder to Black.

And after Vegeta fights Black he says judging by his power he's much further along in the future than our Goku, this also confirms that his power is higher than Goku.

And SSJ Goku was above Hit in raw power, Beerus said that the only reason Hit was able to keep up was because of the timeskip.

Trunks said his own power was weaker than Black. It was implied Goku wasn't much stronger than Trunks, but we don't know if Goku was using his full power.
And yes Black is stronger than Goku, but Vegeta meant base Black>base Goku. this is because his body came from further in the future. that's what he meant.

You are right about ssj Goku being stronger than suppressed Hit though. I forgot about that line. Though 10% SSB Vegeta may of been able to fight like that too if he knew about the time skip.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Trunks said his own power was weaker than Black. It was implied Goku wasn't much stronger than Trunks, but we don't know if Goku was using his full power.
And yes Black is stronger than Goku, but Vegeta meant base Black>base Goku. this is because his body came from further in the future. that's what he meant.

You are right about ssj Goku being stronger than suppressed Hit though. I forgot about that line. Though 10% SSB Vegeta may of been able to fight like that too if he knew about the time skip.

Goku went SSGod to beat Trunks, the gap between his SSJ3 and Trunks' SSJ2 was tiny. Also, Trunks says Black's SSJ is even stronger than before, this means that the gap between Goku and Vegeta is huge as even Base Black could thrash SSJ3 Goku, whereas a powered up SSJ Black gets destroyed by Vegeta.

He may have, but he should have gone SSJ2 to break Hit's timeskip as it's probably almost as strong as SSGod.
SSJ Goku: 1
SSBlue Vegeta (10%): 1
SSJ2 Goku: 2
SSJ3 Goku: 3
SSJ2 Trunks: 2.8
Black: 4
SSJ Black: 4.4
SSJ2 Vegeta: 5
SSGod Goku: 7
SSBlue Vegeta: 10

[dragon boss z]

Trunks said his own power was weaker than Black. It was implied Goku wasn't much stronger than Trunks, but we don't know if Goku was using his full power.
And yes Black is stronger than Goku, but Vegeta meant base Black>base Goku. this is because his body came from further in the future. that's what he meant.

You are right about ssj Goku being stronger than suppressed Hit though. I forgot about that line. Though 10% SSB Vegeta may of been able to fight like that too if he knew about the time skip.

Goku went SSGod to beat Trunks, the gap between his SSJ3 and Trunks' SSJ2 was tiny. Also, Trunks says Black's SSJ is even stronger than before, this means that the gap between Goku and Vegeta is huge as even Base Black could thrash SSJ3 Goku, whereas a powered up SSJ Black gets destroyed by Vegeta.

He may have, but he should have gone SSJ2 to break Hit's timeskip as it's probably almost as strong as SSGod.
SSJ Goku: 1
SSBlue Vegeta (10%): 1
SSJ2 Goku: 2
SSJ3 Goku: 3
SSJ2 Trunks: 2.8
Black: 4
SSJ Black: 4.4
SSJ2 Vegeta: 5
SSGod Goku: 7
SSBlue Vegeta: 10

Base Vegeta has been shown to be equal to base Goku. It doesn't make sense for his ssj2 form to be that much higher than ssj3 Goku. The only explanation for his power being that high is if he kept his rage boost he got form Beerus slapping Bulma. Also logically Black should only be slightly stronger than Goku and Vegeta's ssj2 was only slighty above Black's ssj. Unless Zamasu's power increased Goku's body's power.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Base Vegeta has been shown to be equal to base Goku. It doesn't make sense for his ssj2 form to be that much higher than ssj3 Goku. The only explanation for his power being that high is if he kept his rage boost he got form Beerus slapping Bulma. Also logically Black should only be slightly stronger than Goku and Vegeta's ssj2 was only slighty above Black's ssj. Unless Zamasu's power increased Goku's body's power.

Vegeta was beating the shit out of Black the whole time, he's clearly much stronger. You're probably right about the Beerus thing, Vegeta is likely using that mutated rage boost SSJ2 or whatever.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Saiyan saga Vegeta and Nappa vs. that snake Goten and Trunks fought in DBS episode 1

[Zamasu55]

Saiyan saga Vegeta and Nappa vs. that snake Goten and Trunks fought in DBS episode 1

Is this a joke, mate?

[Polyphase Avatron]

Saiyan saga Vegeta and Nappa vs. that snake Goten and Trunks fought in DBS episode 1

Is this a joke, mate?

Well Goten and Trunks had some trouble with it...

[TheUltimateNinja]

Saiyan saga Vegeta and Nappa vs. that snake Goten and Trunks fought in DBS episode 1

Is this a joke, mate?

Well Goten and Trunks had some trouble with it...

They were holding back.

Anyway, Frieza and co. run this gauntlet:
Cui, Dodoria and Zarbon vs Goku (Kaioken x3) and Vegeta (Oozaru) (Saiyan Arc)

Ginyu Force vs Kuririn and Tenshinhan (Mecha Frieza)

First Form Frieza vs All Saiyans (Oozaru) + his entire army at the same time

Second Form Frieza vs Gohan (No rage boost), Kuririn, Tenshinhan and Yamcha (In the middle of the 3 year training period)

Third Form Frieza vs Pui Pui

Final Form Frieza (Initial) vs Base Vegeta (Energy absorbed by 19)

Final Form Frieza (50%) vs Base Goku (Cell Games)

Final Form Frieza (70%) vs Base Goku (Buu Arc)

Final Form Frieza (100%) vs SSJ Goku (Heart virus) (Androids Arc)

First Form Frieza (Resurrection F) vs Buuhan

Final Form Frieza (Resurrection F) vs SSJ3 Vegetto

Final Form Frieza (Resurrection F) vs SSG Goku (BoG)

[DanielSSJ]

They were holding back.

Anyway, Frieza and co. run this gauntlet:
Cui, Dodoria and Zarbon vs Goku (Kaioken x3) and Vegeta (Oozaru) (Saiyan Arc)

Ginyu Force vs Kuririn and Tenshinhan (Mecha Frieza)

First Form Frieza vs All Saiyans (Oozaru) + his entire army at the same time

Second Form Frieza vs Gohan (No rage boost), Kuririn, Tenshinhan and Yamcha (In the middle of the 3 year training period)

Third Form Frieza vs Pui Pui

Final Form Frieza (Initial) vs Base Vegeta (Energy absorbed by 19)

Final Form Frieza (50%) vs Base Goku (Cell Games)

Final Form Frieza (70%) vs Base Goku (Buu Arc)

Final Form Frieza (100%) vs SSJ Goku (Heart virus) (Androids Arc)

First Form Frieza (Resurrection F) vs Buuhan

Final Form Frieza (Resurrection F) vs SSJ3 Vegetto

Final Form Frieza (Resurrection F) vs SSG Goku (BoG)

- Even if Vegeta is in the state of reduced power that he was in during the fight with Goku and the others by the time he went Ozaru, he should still be more than strong enough to blast Freeza's goons away with one mouth blast.
- Power-wise, the Earthlings should have an advantage. Kuririn is already a bit stronger than the Captain himself, Yamcha and Tenshinhan should be more than enough for Jheese, Butta, and Reacoom, and Chiaotzu handles Gurudo.
- Freeza's first form probably wouldn't be sufficient to deal with 1,000 Ozaru, all with battle powers of at least 10,000 or so, especially if there are folks like Bardock, King Vegeta, and Prince Vegeta, all with battle powers of 100,000. Add in the rest of his army, including guys like the Ginyu force, and I think Freeza loses.
- No clue how strong those guys are at the 1.5 year mark of their training, though I do suspect that Gohan is probably at least at around the million mark. Eh, I'll say Gohan's team wins.
- In my made-up numbers, I arbitrarily put Pui-Pui at around 2.5 million, which is a bit stronger than third form Freeza's 2.1 million. Despite the small power gap, I'll say that Freeza's the better fighter and say he wins. Really, Freeza's just cooler than Pui-Pui.
- Goku was roughly even with Freeza's initial level, and Vegeta has gotten a lot stronger than that. If Freeza can't power up any higher than that, Vegeta wins.
- The two are almost dead even by my numbers, but Goku wins due to being a more skilled fighter.
- This time Goku has a power advantage, and wins even easier than last time.
- Goku starts out at a level superior to Freeza's, but with his heart condition hampering his fighting ability and draining his ki, Freeza would eventually come out on top.
- Controversial opinion, but I have Freeza's true form at around the same level as SS3 Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan. There was a reason why those iterations of those characters were excluded from both versions of the fight, if you ask me. Given that, first form Freeza gets wrecked by Gohan-Boo.
- Based on what I said above, there's no way that Freeza wins against Super Saiyan 1 Vegetto without Golden Form, let alone SS3 Vegetto.
- See the last two answers for this one. Freeza loses badly.

[TheUltimateNinja]

- Power-wise, the Earthlings should have an advantage. Kuririn is already a bit stronger than the Captain himself, Yamcha and Tenshinhan should be more than enough for Jheese, Butta, and Reacoom, and Chiaotzu handles Gurudo.
- Freeza's first form probably wouldn't be sufficient to deal with 1,000 Ozaru, all with battle powers of at least 10,000 or so, especially if there are folks like Bardock, King Vegeta, and Prince Vegeta, all with battle powers of 100,000. Add in the rest of his army, including guys like the Ginyu force, and I think Freeza loses.
- Goku was roughly even with Freeza's initial level, and Vegeta has gotten a lot stronger than that. If Freeza can't power up any higher than that, Vegeta wins.

- Yamcha and Chiaotzu aren't present, Kuririn and Tenshinhan are taking the squad on by themselves.

- Frieza still has the option of planet busting or flying off into space if he gets desperate.

- Vegeta lost a lot of strength to 19, though.

[DanielSSJ]

- Yamcha and Chiaotzu aren't present, Kuririn and Tenshinhan are taking the squad on by themselves.

- Frieza still has the option of planet busting or flying off into space if he gets desperate.

- Vegeta lost a lot of strength to 19, though.

That's what I get for not reading carefully.

- If Tenshinhan can tie up the four Ginyu flunkies (and given that I have him at around 60,000 at this point, he should), Kuririn can take out Ginyu on his own. Even if they switch bodies, Ginyu won't be able to draw out Kuririn's full power and Tenshinhan can then finish him off.
- I tend to ignore options like that. If I didn't, nearly every match with Freeza would end with "he blows up the planet" and what fun is that?
- Vegeta ends up about as strong as initial Freeza and loses due to his fatigue hampering his performance.

[dragon boss z]

Saiyan saga Vegeta and Nappa vs. that snake Goten and Trunks fought in DBS episode 1

Either one one shots with 1% of their power...

[dragon boss z]

Frieza and co. run this gauntlet:

Cui, Dodoria and Zarbon vs Goku (Kaioken x3) and Vegeta (Oozaru) (Saiyan Arc)

Kaioken x3 Goku has a power level of 24,000 so he could beat up any of them except monster Zarbon and Oozaru Vegeta is stronger than any of them.

Ginyu Force vs Kuririn and Tenshinhan (Mecha Frieza)

The Ginyu force stomps. Krillin and Tien might of reached the Ginyu force's strength, but it's 5v2, Captain ginyu is probably stronger than either of them, and Guldo can stop time.

First Form Frieza vs All Saiyans (Oozaru) + his entire army at the same time

This is a hard one, but since Frieza can survive in space even if he starts to lose he will bust the planet and kill all the others.

Second Form Frieza vs Gohan (No rage boost), Kuririn, Tenshinhan and Yamcha (In the middle of the 3 year training period)

Second Form Frieza is too much for them. they haven't proved they even surpassed first form Frieza.

Third Form Frieza vs Pui Pui

Pui Pui is a jobber who thought 10x gravity was special. I have him at around saiyan tier.

Final Form Frieza (Initial) vs Base Vegeta (Energy absorbed by 19)

Vegeta was so weak even as a ssj he probably coulldn't beat Gero. That means his base is most likely weaker than full power Namek saga Goku, which would make him weaker than Frieza suppressed too.

Final Form Frieza (50%) vs Base Goku (Cell Games)

Goku wins by using kaioken. Without it he would lose.

Final Form Frieza (70%) vs Base Goku (Buu Arc)

Same as above. Goku needs the kaioken to win.

Final Form Frieza (100%) vs SSJ Goku (Heart virus) (Androids Arc)

Even if ssj Goku starts out stronger, he will eventually weaken enough where Frieza can kill him.

First Form Frieza (Resurrection F) vs Buuhan

First form Frieza was too strong for a weakened Gohan and Piccolo. Imo there is no evidence to put him above super perfect Cell. At best I would say he is fat Buu level

Final Form Frieza (Resurrection F) vs SSJ3 Vegetto

We don't know how strong final form Frieza got, but I highly doubt he was stronger than ssj3 Vegetto. I would say he is around base to ssj Vegetto.

Final Form Frieza (Resurrection F) vs SSG Goku (BoG)

Freeza gets stomped. He wasn't god tier without his golden form. Even his golden form could lose if he gets tired enough.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Saiyan saga Vegeta and Nappa vs. that snake Goten and Trunks fought in DBS episode 1

Either one one shots with 1% of their power...

You are underestimating the snake, it probably has a PL of at least 20,000

[Gog]

The ultimate battle, to determine the second greatest warrior on Babbidi's ship.

Pui Pui Kaioken times two (can't increase it) V Full Power Yakon

[Saiyan007]

Freeza's 4th form is actually stronger than SSJG Goku Krillinalready confirmed Goku's base form was higher than when he fought Beerus.

[Zamasu55]

Anyway, Frieza and co. run this gauntlet:

Cui, Dodoria and Zarbon vs Goku (Kaioken x3) and Vegeta (Oozaru) (Saiyan Arc)

Ginyu Force vs Kuririn and Tenshinhan (Mecha Frieza)

First Form Frieza vs All Saiyans (Oozaru) + his entire army at the same time

Second Form Frieza vs Gohan (No rage boost), Kuririn, Tenshinhan and Yamcha (In the middle of the 3 year training period)

Third Form Frieza vs Pui Pui

Final Form Frieza (Initial) vs Base Vegeta (Energy absorbed by 19)

Final Form Frieza (50%) vs Base Goku (Cell Games)

Final Form Frieza (70%) vs Base Goku (Buu Arc)

Final Form Frieza (100%) vs SSJ Goku (Heart virus) (Androids Arc)

First Form Frieza (Resurrection F) vs Buuhan

Final Form Frieza (Resurrection F) vs SSJ3 Vegetto

Final Form Frieza (Resurrection F) vs SSG Goku (BoG)

1. Kaiohken x3 Goku couldn't beat Vegeta (18,000), plus his stamina is really really low. I guess the three foes would manage to cut Vegeta's tail off and just end the Saiyans.
2. Ginyu should still be stronger than both of them. Anyway, it's 5 vs 2 and Guldo and Ginyu have got unique techniques that can really give the Earthlings a hard time. Personally, I'd go with the Ginyu force.
3. What Saiyans? By the way his army is trash, he wouldn't have any problems.
4. They all get slaughtered. On the other hand, Gohan (Post training) should be able to win pretty comfortably.
5. No clue.
6. Frieza one-shots.
7. Pretty close fight... it can go either way.
8. Frieza would beat him easily, Goku was getting his ass kicked by 19 who's weaker than 100% Frieza.
9. The question is: Would Buuhan be able to one-shot with a character as strong as Mystic Gohan just like Frieza did? I guess not. Frieza.
10. As far as we know, Ssj3 Vegito was below Beerus's 0,01% or something like that. Final form Frieza one-shots.
11. SsjG Goku is much stronger.