Are the SEG multipliers anything more than arbitrary figures?

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Speedster
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Re: Are the SEG multipliers anything more than arbitrary figures?

Post by Speedster » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:13 pm

The stated values are not completely random. There is some basis behind their derivation.

1. SSJ2 being SSJ1x2 must be due to the fact that an attack which was meant to kill SSJ1 Vegeta resulted to SSJ2 Gohan losing half of his power. And Gohan was NOT caught off-guard. He jumped in, fully knowing that he was about to get hit. Surely he didn’t have the time to counter the attack by firing a blast of his own or stopping it with his palms (the way Goku stopped Taopaipai’s Dodonpa for example) but he was definitely expecting it. And, yes, there was a gap in power between SSJ1 Gohan and SSJ1 Vegeta but finishing moves were shown to need a higher power level than your opponent’s maximum - see Piccolo firing a Makankosappo of BP around 1500 to kill Radditz whose BP was stated to be 1200 – that was 25% higher.
SSJ1 Vegeta (Cell Games)=0.75
SP Cell’s attack to kill Vegeta=1
SSJ1 Gohan (Cell Games)=1
SSJ2 Gohan=2
SSJ2 Gohan (injured)=1
SSJ2 Gohan (injured but motivated/rage-boosted)=2
(Another way of basically saying the same thing would be to say that SSJ2 Gohan could theoretically go to x4 of his SSJ1. That was X2 for regular SSJ2 and x2 for rage boost. Losing half of his power would make it an overall x2 i.e. as match as the SSJ2 boost upon SSJ1)

2. The derivation of SSJ3 being x4 of SSJ2 is probably based around the fact that reviving Fat Buu required twice the energy absorbed by SSJ2 Gohan. They probably said this:
SSJ2 Gohan (Buu Arc)=1
Fat Buu=2
SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games)=1.25
SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta (Buu arc)=1.5
Hence, Fat Buu=4/3*(SSJ2 Goku)

Then,
Grey Buu=1.3×(Fat Buu)
Super Buu=(Fat Buu)+(Grey Buu)=2.3×(Fat Buu)
kid Buu=1.3*Super Buu=3×(Fat Buu)
SSJ3 Goku=kid Buu= 3×(Fat Buu)

Hence, by substituting that Fat Buu=4/3*(SSJ2 Goku) we get:
SSJ3 Goku=3×[4/3*SSJ2 Goku]=4×SSJ2 Goku (Q.E.D)
It should be noted though that the SEG multipliers for SSJ2 and SSJ3 are not explicitly stated to be battle power multipliers. This is just an interpretation of the fans. The actual word used in the guidebook is strength. And that despite the fact that on the same page the SSJ1 multiplier is also given and referred to increasing one’s battle power by 50x. Here read:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/battle-power/databook/#seg

You would think if the intention was for the stated SSJ2 and SSJ3 multipliers to be multipliers in the conventional (scouter) battle power scale the authors of the guidebook would say so. But they didn’t. They just said 2x as strong, 4x as strong. Who is to say for example that the given SSJ2 multiplier was not meant to be x2 the strength in the star scale that the SEG had introduced in the pages preceding the multiplier page? The multipliers are given on page 62-63 and in pages 44-59, the SEG illustrated Goku’s progress throughout the original series in terms of performance charts, an attribute of which was strength. Or who is to say the x2 is not in the kili scale? Especially given that apparently it is the kili system that was used for the derivation of the SSJ3 multiplier.

Finally another thing worth pointing out is that the guide gives these multipliers while only showing Goku. Which may mean that these values are applicable when it comes to Goku only. Not the other Saiyans. That can then mean that Goku's SSJ3 for example is x4 but not Gotenks'. Goku's SSJ3 apparently evolved/improved during his fight against kid Buu. Gotenks' SSJ3 on the other hand remained stationary to an orginal boost of say x2 his SSJ2.

For instance
SSJ2 Goku=0.75xFat Buu
Suppressed SSJ3 Goku (Vs Fat Buu)=1.15xFat Buu
SSJ2 Gotenks=Suppressed SSJ3 Goku=1.15xFat Buu (hence Piccolo thought he might have a chance)
SSJ3 Gotenks=2xSSJ2 Gotenks=2.3xFat Buu=Super Buu
SSJ3 Goku=4xSSJ2 Goku=3xFat Buu=kid Buu

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Re: Are the SEG multipliers anything more than arbitrary figures?

Post by Duo » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:24 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:Are any multipliers or power levels anything more than arbitrary figures?
...something something a Saiyans power can't be reduced to mere numbers something something...

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