Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

That overcharged attack and deflection is more than anything Krillin ever did since the Frieza saga. There was never anything to suggest that Krillin could ever do anything of the sort.

Piccolo is weaker than Gohan because Gohan had gigantic power ups that made him many several fold stronger than Piccolo. Goku did a unique form of training that allowed him to master a form that Vegeta did not because he didn't think to do it.

Krillin only had a power level of over 10,000 in the Frieza saga and then just trained normally since until he sorta stopped or slowed down. Tien was probably behind by the Frieza saga but he trained with King Kai and has trained ever since.

Krillin shouldn't have had such a huge headstart that even when on the possible decline after the Cell Games that Tien should still be weaker by this point.

It's always been a heavily debated topic and I can see why. If not for saying that Krillin was the strongest I'm sure the majority would assume that Tien was stronger.

[VegetaSSJBlue]

Tien is alien

[HeroR]

That overcharged attack and deflection is more than anything Krillin ever did since the Frieza saga. There was never anything to suggest that Krillin could ever do anything of the sort.

Piccolo is weaker than Gohan because Gohan had gigantic power ups that made him many several fold stronger than Piccolo. Goku did a unique form of training that allowed him to master a form that Vegeta did not because he didn't think to do it.

Krillin only had a power level of over 10,000 in the Frieza saga and then just trained normally since until he sorta stopped or slowed down. Tien was probably behind by the Frieza saga but he trained with King Kai and has trained ever since.

Krillin shouldn't have had such a huge headstart that even when on the possible decline after the Cell Games that Tien should still be weaker by this point.

It's always been a heavily debated topic and I can see why. If not for saying that Krillin was the strongest I'm sure the majority would assume that Tien was stronger.

Deflecting an attacked aimed for Denda isn't impressive. How powerful do you think that blast was? Also, Krillin actually hurt Freeza by cutting off a piece of his tail, while all Tien did was stall and didn't even hurt Cell. That statement is flawed since unless you give Krillin the Tri-Beam Cannon you can't make any real statements that says, 'Krillin can't do that'.

Mastered Super Saiyan is just a more energy efficient version of Super Saiyan. The multiplier is exactly the same as a normal Super Saiyan, meaning that Goku's base form was much higher than Vegeta's. Goku's Super Saiyan form had nothing to do with it. Also, Piccolo was weaker than a rusty Gohan from the Buu Saga before he got his power-up despite training non-stop for seven years.

Krillin had a power level of 75,000 by the end of the Frieza Saga. We have no numbers from Tien even looking at the guidebooks so that is all assumption on your part. No such statement was also never given that Krillin declined, just as there was no such statement that Tien has gotten much stronger.

Tien being stronger is purely based on his feat against Cell, using the Tri-Beam Cannon that takes him well past him limits. Using the same logic, Krillin was much stronger than Tien during the Saiyan Saga since he killed five Saibermen in one attack and nearly beheaded Nappa if Vegeta didn't warn Nappa at the last second, while Tien's final suicide attack where he put everything into it didn't even destroy Nappa's armor.

Tien is alien

No he isn't. He has alien blood, but he is several generations removed from it.

[Bullza]

The Destructo Disk is supposed to cut through anything so that it cut off Frieza's tail doesn't mean too much. Tien forcefully knocked Cell back for a decent amount of time. Android 16 punched Cell in the face and he didn't even move.

Krillin's power level was over 10,000 in the Frieza saga. The 75,000 figure was just from some guide and they're a complete mess as it is so I don't put any stock in that. He should not be drastically stronger than Tien after he spent time training on King Kai's planet in 10x gravity.

So for them to both train since then but Tien to continue to and with a sparring partner for many years more and still be weaker doesnt make a lot of sense when Krillin may have declined at the same time as well though it's likely because Krillin is just more popular.

Also there was nothing to say that Tien couldn't have killed 5 Saibaman with one attack either or that he could not have beheaded Nappa with the Destructo disc. Plus that attack that killed the Saibaman didn't destroy Nappa's armour either.

[HeroR]

The Destructo Disk is supposed to cut through anything so that it cut off Frieza's tail doesn't mean too much. Tien forcefully knocked Cell back for a decent amount of time. Android 16 punched Cell in the face and he didn't even move.

Krillin's power level was over 10,000 in the Frieza saga. The 75,000 figure was just from some guide and they're a complete mess as it is so I don't put any stock in that. He should not be drastically stronger than Tien after he spent time training on King Kai's planet in 10x gravity.

So for them to both train since then but Tien to continue to and with a sparring partner for many years more and still be weaker doesnt make a lot of sense when Krillin may have declined at the same time as well though it's likely because Krillin is just more popular.

Also there was nothing to say that Tien couldn't have killed 5 Saibaman with one attack either or that he could not have beheaded Nappa with the Destructo disc. Plus that attack that killed the Saibaman didn't destroy Nappa's armour either.

The Destructo Disk cutting through anything is a fan idea. It was never stated in the manga that the Destructo Disk could cut through anyone regardless of power. That is unlimited power fallacy, no different than saying that Beerus can kill anyone by saying Destroy. The Tri-Beam is specifically called a technique that takes the user's power past its limits in exchanged for their very lives. It isn't Tien's normal power, just as we don't say Goku in the Saiyan Saga was stronger than Vegeta because he had the Kaioken.

That 75,000 number is the official number given in the guidebook. The same guidebook that has Super Saiyan Goku at 150 million and Freeza at 120 million. You can't just pick and chose what you chose to believe from the guidebooks' power level if you chose to believe the number giving for Goku and Freeza despite no such numbers existing in the manga, especially when Vegeta was talking about how both Krillin and Gohan increasing in power when first form Freeza confronted them. Krillin also got his power unlocked by Gura, unlike Tien.

Tien's sparring partner is Chiaotzu compared to Krillin who can spar with 18 on a light day. And it was never stated or even implied that Krillin declined. That is just a fan theory at best.

Nothing said, but he didn't do it, did he? Nor does he know the Destructo Disk, so he couldn't cut Nappa's head. Just like Krillin couldn't pull the feat of pushing Semi-Perfect Cell down because he doesn't know the Tri-Beam Cannon. Also, Tien dumping all his remaining power into one vengeful fueled and not going a thing to Nappa is far more pitiful than Krillin's attack failing to do a thing against Nappa since that shows that Nappa is way stronger than a mere Saiberman, while Tien literally dropped dead after dumping all he had.

[Animelover5487]

Master Roshi > Goten and Trunks confirmed. AT said that Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Majin Buu, Piccolo, #17 and 18, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, and Roshi were the top ten strongest people on Earth.

[Noah]

Master Roshi > Goten and Trunks confirmed. AT said that Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Majin Buu, Piccolo, #17 and 18, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, and Roshi were the top ten strongest people on Earth.

Wait... What? Is he out of his mind?

[LightBing]

Master Roshi > Goten and Trunks confirmed. AT said that Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Majin Buu, Piccolo, #17 and 18, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, and Roshi were the top ten strongest people on Earth.

Wait... What? Is he out of his mind?

Mr. Toriyama said no such thing. Who wrote that was animedia(magazine) publicizing the arc, I would take it with a grain of salt. Although I wouldn't put him past him to do it.
With an explanation it would be fine, somewhat. Obviously a bad explanation wouldn't make it good, still better than nothing and I have hope the manga would try it's best to provide good reasons. The anime probably would have Master Roshi manhandle a SSJ3 level opponent and wouldn't even have a side character comment on it.

[Noah]

Roshi, Krillin and Tien managing to get stronger than Goten and Trunks would be ridiculous. I could only think in Whis's miraculous training as a possible explanation, but still bad for my tastes

[LightBing]

As ridiculous as Goten and Trunks getting being stronger than everyone before Cell, at ages 7 and 8 and with barely any training?
If you look at Dragon Ball as a whole it's full of "ridiculous" power ups.

Give a transformation(s) to the humans and they are in the same boat as the Saiyans. Give then the most recent unlock potential and they reach never imagined height's. Get them training from the best master around and they power up immensely.
There's so many plausible power ups.

The main problem is usually the plausibility of them, storywise. Like Freeza training for 4 months. I can buy him getting very strong because he's a mutant freak, but why didn't he do it after getting beat up by Goku? This type of problems.

[Freeza9000]

Like Freeza training for 4 months. I can buy him getting very strong because he's a mutant freak, but why didn't he do it after getting beat up by Goku? This type of problems.

Guess Freeza was too confident that he could beat Goku at that time since it was stated that his reconstruction did make him stronger and that his father was also with him whose power presumably surpasses Freeza at the time.

[Ki Breaker]

The anime probably would have Master Roshi manhandle a SSJ3 level opponent and wouldn't even have a side character comment on it.

What do you expect? Isn't it our job to explain things?
They are already busy enough trying to figure out ways to make goku more retarded, that ain't an easy task at this point mate

[Bullza]

That 75,000 number is the official number given in the guidebook.

It's still just a guide. Krillin was stated in the manga to be over 10,000 after he received the Guru power up and that was it. There was nothing to state that he grew about seven times stronger in the hour or so between being completely flattened by Recoome to being much stronger than Recoome.

There's at least a sound reason for Goku being at 150 million.

Tien's sparring partner is Chiaotzu compared to Krillin who can spar with 18 on a light day. And it was never stated or even implied that Krillin declined. That is just a fan theory at best.

Krillin sparring with 18 is a fan theory. That was never stated either. We know characters decline if they don't train and we know that Tien did train and did have a sparring partner. It's questionable if Krillin trained or used a sparring partner.

Nothing said, but he didn't do it, did he?

Neither did Piccolo.

Also, Tien dumping all his remaining power into one vengeful fueled and not going a thing to Nappa is far more pitiful than Krillin's attack failing to do a thing against Nappa

It's the exact same thing. Both attacks didn't do squat. When Gohan snapped after Piccolo died and fired his strongest attack it also didn't do squat.

[ShinTenshin]

The power level of 75 000 for Krilin is unofficial !
It's an information of the VJUMP but never seen in the official ArtBook of DB.
For Tien, the Daizenshuu 7 (the last) clearly say's he's an alien, contrary to the Daizenshuu 4.
We have representation of races on earth and now 3rd Eyes Clan is represented as an alien race and Tien is the only one on earth.

Even the biography of Tien say he exceed earthling power cause he isn't human.
In the Daizenshuu 7, Tien is officialy an alien, nowhere in the book Tien is specified as a human.
The 7 Daizenshuu is the last one and an update of the Daizenshuu 4 !

So now, it's the only way to go.
More interesting, in the biography of BOG/FNF/DBSUPER it's never said Tien is an earthling.
But we will be fixed about the power level with the universe tournament !

But if we take BOG, Tien fight Beerus, Krilin not at all.
And in FNF, Tien fight soldiers of Frieza without help and Krilin is saved by Gohan.
So, Tien is portrayed as a better fighter.

[TheMikado]

The anime probably would have Master Roshi manhandle a SSJ3 level opponent and wouldn't even have a side character comment on it.

What do you expect? Isn't it our job to explain things?
They are already busy enough trying to figure out ways to make goku more retarded, that ain't an easy task at this point mate

This is a scenario I'm an not looking forward to.. please please add even a bit of exposition.

[TheMikado]

The power level of 75 000 for Krilin is unofficial !
It's an information of the VJUMP but never seen in the official ArtBook of DB.
For Tien, the Daizenshuu 7 (the last) clearly say's he's an alien, contrary to the Daizenshuu 4.
We have representation of races on earth and now 3rd Eyes Clan is represented as an alien race and Tien is the only one on earth.

Even the biography of Tien say he exceed earthling power cause he isn't human.
In the Daizenshuu 7, Tien is officialy an alien, nowhere in the book Tien is specified as a human.
The 7 Daizenshuu is the last one and an update of the Daizenshuu 4 !

So now, it's the only way to go.
More interesting, in the biography of BOG/FNF/DBSUPER it's never said Tien is an earthling.
But we will be fixed about the power level with the universe tournament !

But if we take BOG, Tien fight Beerus, Krilin not at all.
And in FNF, Tien fight soldiers of Frieza without help and Krilin is saved by Gohan.
So, Tien is portrayed as a better fighter.

Tien has been portrayed as the better fighter so it does make it even more odd to select Krillin. Maybe they have a legitimate reason though.

[Noah]

As ridiculous as Goten and Trunks getting being stronger than everyone before Cell, at ages 7 and 8 and with barely any training?
If you look at Dragon Ball as a whole it's full of "ridiculous" power ups.

Give a transformation(s) to the humans and they are in the same boat as the Saiyans. Give then the most recent unlock potential and they reach never imagined height's. Get them training from the best master around and they power up immensely.
There's so many plausible power ups.

Er... No? This was a staple of the series since Gohan introduction, the new generation is always stronger than the last one, we saw Pan showing her flying skills as a baby, so don't know what's the problem, plus they're Saiyans not Humans.

Also the Earthlings surpassing the Saiyan kids makes their introduction and existence pointless in the series overall, as there's no use for them anymore.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Why does everyone have a problem with Tenshinhan been below Kuririn? Kuririn got his dormant powers drawn out, so he is at a level that Tenshinha simply can't catch up to. Piccolo kept training, yet he didn't surpass Gohan who had stopped training. Same thing, really.

[Beyond]

Why does everyone have a problem with Tenshinhan been below Kuririn? Kuririn got his dormant powers drawn out, so he is at a level that Tenshinha simply can't catch up to. Piccolo kept training, yet he didn't surpass Gohan who had stopped training. Same thing, really.

The answer is they like to believe hard work means something, and they also see Tien push back cell and assume he must be way stronger than Krillin to do so. Comparing that with the Gohan and Piccolo case isn't fair. Gohan is massively superior to Piccolo on a genetic level. The same can't be said about Tien and Krillin.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The answer is they like to believe hard work means something, and they also see Tien push back cell and assume he must be way stronger than Krillin to do so. Comparing that with the Gohan and Piccolo case isn't fair. Gohan is massively superior to Piccolo on a genetic level. The same can't be said about Tien and Krillin.

And Kuririn is superior because his dormant powers have been drawn out, unlike Tenshinhan. It isn't that different from Gohan & Piccolo, Gohan is above Piccolo because of his SS forms.