Unpopular DB opinions

[LuckyCat]

Even though Goku was stated to be older, he still looked like a kid like Gohan. Thus, I still think Toriyama wanted to have another child-like hero when he created Gohan, rather than a teenager, even if Shonen can potentially appeal to teenagers (and others!).

Either way, shifting the age of the hero changes the demographic.

[rereboy]

Even though Goku was stated to be older, he still looked like a kid like Gohan. Thus, I still think Toriyama wanted to have another child-like hero when he created Gohan, rather than a teenager, even if Shonen can potentially appeal to teenagers.

I agree with you that having a younger hero appeals to an younger crowd, but I don't think we should say that it's because it's shonen. Shonen is for teenagers just as much as it is for younger-than-teenage boys, and whether it focus more on one end or the other end just depends on exactly what the author chooses to put there. It isn't "potentially" for teenagers.

[LuckyCat]

but I don't think we should say that it's because it's shonen. Shonen is for teenagers just as much as it is for younger-than-teenage boys, and whether it focus more on one end or the other end just depends on exactly what the author chooses to put there. It isn't "potentially" for teenagers.

I never mentioned Shonen, I was talking specifically about Dragonball. My thought is Toriyama likes creating child heroes and is particularly fond of writing for a younger audience. When Gohan actually became a teenager, Toriyama's creativity appeared to have run dry.

[rereboy]

but I don't think we should say that it's because it's shonen. Shonen is for teenagers just as much as it is for younger-than-teenage boys, and whether it focus more on one end or the other end just depends on exactly what the author chooses to put there. It isn't "potentially" for teenagers.

I never mentioned Shonen, I was talking specifically about Dragonball. My thought is Toriyama likes creating child heroes and is particularly fond of writing for a younger audience. When Gohan actually became a teenager, Toriyama's creativity appeared to have run dry.

As I said in my first post, Dragon Ball doesn't focus particularly in the younger end of the shonen spectrum (and Dragon Ball is, obviously, a shonen). It's stands more or less in the middle overall, with a tendency to move towards the older end as it went along (namely after Piccolo Daimao).

[LuckyCat]

As I said in my first post, Dragon Ball doesn't focus particularly in the younger end of the shonen spectrum (and Dragon Ball is, obviously, a shonen).

But still, if you shifted the age of Gohan, it would in effect be focusing on an older audience.

[rereboy]

As I said in my first post, Dragon Ball doesn't focus particularly in the younger end of the shonen spectrum (and Dragon Ball is, obviously, a shonen).

But still, if you shifted the age of Gohan, it would in effect be focusing on an older audience.

Like I said, I agree that having a younger hero appeals to a younger audience audience, but a 10 year old instead of a 4 year old would still appeal to a younger audience. Actually, it probably would have been beneficial since there were probably more 10 to 12 year old boys reading Dragon Ball than 4 to 6 year old boys.

[mabalia]

As I said in my first post, Dragon Ball doesn't focus particularly in the younger end of the shonen spectrum (and Dragon Ball is, obviously, a shonen).

But still, if you shifted the age of Gohan, it would in effect be focusing on an older audience.

Like I said, I agree that having a younger hero appeals to a younger audience audience, but a 10 year old instead of a 4 year old would still appeal to a younger audience. Actually, it probably would have been beneficial since there were probably more 10 to 12 year old boys reading Dragon Ball than 4 to 6 year old boys.

I agree. That's how I see it too. There are many adult situations for the focus of the DB story has been for the younger audience.

[LuckyCat]

Like I said, I agree that having a younger hero appeals to a younger audience audience, but a 10 year old instead of a 4 year old would still appeal to a younger audience. Actually, it probably would have been beneficial since there were probably more 10 to 12 year old boys reading Dragon Ball than 4 to 6 year old boys.

You're right, but that would work because Gohan wasn't written to be necessarily a four year old in action. The number attributed to his child status is arbitrary, as long as he's a growing schoolchild. But when you get as high as 15, we're talking about another stage of life for Gohan.

[rereboy]

Like I said, I agree that having a younger hero appeals to a younger audience audience, but a 10 year old instead of a 4 year old would still appeal to a younger audience. Actually, it probably would have been beneficial since there were probably more 10 to 12 year old boys reading Dragon Ball than 4 to 6 year old boys.

You're right, but that would work because Gohan wasn't written to be necessarily a four year old in action. The number attributed to his child status is arbitrary, as long as he's a growing schoolchild. But when you get as high as 15, we're talking about another stage of life for Gohan.

Just decrease the number of years training for the androids and the years in-between the Cell arc and the Buu arc, and basically nothing would change.

[LuckyCat]

Just decrease the number of years training for the androids and the years in-between the Cell arc and the Buu arc, and basically nothing would change.

But the OP's suggestion was to basically make Gohan his age during the Buu saga to be his starting age. Sure, that works to some degree, but it wasn't the type of story Toriyama wanted to write. Toriyama seemed to be more comfortable writing Gohan as a child. It's flexible what age Gohan needs to be as a child, but he's still written as a child.

[mabalia]

Just decrease the number of years training for the androids and the years in-between the Cell arc and the Buu arc, and basically nothing would change.

But the OP's suggestion was to basically make Gohan his age during the Buu saga to be his starting age. Sure, that works to some degree, but it wasn't the type of story Toriyama wanted to write. Toriyama seemed to be more comfortable writing Gohan as a child. It's flexible what age Gohan needs to be as a child, but he's still written as a child.

That's my preference but I also said if Gohan had to be a child it'd be better if he were a 9 or 10 years old.

[LuckyCat]

That's my preference but I also said if Gohan had to be a child it'd be better if he were a 9 or 10 years old.

So you're comfortable during the Android arc because he's 10, but not comfortable during the Saiyan and Freeza arcs because he's too young to fight?

[mabalia]

That's my preference but I also said if Gohan had to be a child it'd be better if he were a 9 or 10 years old.

So you're comfortable during the Android arc because he's 10, but not comfortable during the Saiyan and Freeza arcs because he's too young to fight?

Not as young as 5 years old. I said that's too young for me.

[rereboy]

Just decrease the number of years training for the androids and the years in-between the Cell arc and the Buu arc, and basically nothing would change.

But the OP's suggestion was to basically make Gohan his age during the Buu saga to be his starting age. Sure, that works to some degree, but it wasn't the type of story Toriyama wanted to write. Toriyama seemed to be more comfortable writing Gohan as a child. It's flexible what age Gohan needs to be as a child, but he's still written as a child.

mabalia suggested that he could be 9 or 10 years old, even though he preferred 15 years old.

While I agree that Gohan would have to be written differently if he started out at 15 years old, even in that case the gang spends 3 years training for the androids and then there's 7 years between the Cell arc and the Buu arc. So, if the gang spent 1 year training for the androids and then 2 years in between the Cell arc and the Buu arc, Gohan would be just about 3 years older than in the original story (20 or 21 instead of 17 or 18), which isn't a big difference in that regard.

That's my preference but I also said if Gohan had to be a child it'd be better if he were a 9 or 10 years old.

So you're comfortable during the Android arc because he's 10, but not comfortable during the Saiyan and Freeza arcs because he's too young to fight?

10 to 12 years old was about the same age that Goku had in early Dragon Ball.

[LuckyCat]

Not as young as 5 years old. I said that's too young for me.

I see, though I would argue that Gohan matures quickly and acts older than even a 10 year old, despite his written age. There's something fantastical about a 5-year old that can fight, but when you make him a 10 year old, or a 15 year old, you're losing some of the fantasy, and maybe some of the fun.

[rereboy]

Not as young as 5 years old. I said that's too young for me.

I see, though I would argue that Gohan matures quickly and acts older than even a 10 year old, despite his written age. There's something fantastical about a 5-year old that can fight, but when you make him a 10 year old, or a 15 year old, you're losing some of the fantasy.

Are you suggesting that when Goku did it in early Dragon Ball it was less fantastical because he was older? I don't agree with that. It's just as fantastical but a little less awkward because it seems less of a baby doing it.

[LuckyCat]

Are you suggesting that when Goku did it in early Dragon Ball it was less fantastical because he was older?

Perhaps, but not exactly. Part of Gohan's fantastical charm was that he was stronger than Goku when Goku was Gohan's age.

[rereboy]

Are you suggesting that when Goku did it in early Dragon Ball it was less fantastical because he was older?

Perhaps, but not exactly. Part of Gohan's fantastical charm was that he was stronger than Goku when Goku was Gohan's age.

Gohan was stronger than Goku in the Radditz fight so, no matter what age Gohan was, he would always be stronger than Goku was at his age.

[LuckyCat]

Gohan was stronger than Goku in the Radditz fight so, no matter what age Gohan was, he would always be stronger than Goku was at his age.

But if Gohan's just Goku 2.0 (i.e. the same age as kid Goku) then there is something less unique and interesting about Gohan's character. That's all I'm getting at.

[Anime Kitten]

No, its [...] A complete and utter retcon of what was stated in the previous arc, its not consistent.

How so? They never said it had to be "pure good". Just "pure". Vegeta was "pure evil", while still being "pure", thus he could be a Super Saiyan.