"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Cipher]

Whole lotta victim-blaming in this thread.

[Hellspawn28]

Some people believe that Zalama may be a GoD from another universe. I don't think that is true, but I think he could have came to another universe to create the Super Dragon Balls. I still hope we see him/her one day.

[DBS916]

Some people believe that Zalama may be a GoD from another universe. I don't think that is true, but I think he could have came to another universe to create the Super Dragon Balls. I still hope we see him/her one day.

I don't think so. Because Beerus mentioned that Gods of Destruction do not create things, and I don't think he will be a Kaioshin either.

[Sandubadear]

It could be Zalama, the creator of the Super Dragon Balls. What do you think?

At the dawn of the eons, Zalama, Zen'ou's younger brother, created the Super DBs. He then wished to create 18 universes. The Super DBs happen to be in universes 6 and 7 because reasons.

[Grimlock]

At the dawn of the eons, Zalama, Zen'ou's younger brother, created the Super DBs. He then wished to create 18 universes.

That calls my attention, to say the least. But then I have some questions for this concept: what was before Super Shenlong granted his wish? How did he manage to create Super Dragon Balls from apparent nothing?

[Sandubadear]

How did he manage to create Super Dragon Balls from apparent nothing?

God Magic.

[TekTheNinja]

Are you kidding me? In the Cell arc, Goku even says himself the the Saiyans, Frieza, and Cell were ALL caused by him. And now in Super he was the reason Beerus woke up, he was still the reason for Frieza, and he was absolutely responsible for Black Goku. That A LOT of Goku causing the threats.

Goku blaming himself for the Saiyans and Frieza don't means they are actually hit fault. In Super, he was not the reason for Beerus woke up and no, that is not 'a lot', that is.... Noticable at best. You act like it's a 90% of the time.

They were his fault though. If he wasn't around they wouldn't have happened. Again, factually his fault. How the fuck is that not a lot? That's most of Z and so far most of Super.

[alakazam^]

He is only said to be the ruler of all universes, and we are only told that he has the power to destroy them all. We aren't told anything, nor was it ever hinted, that he is the creator of the universes (unless if I missed something?). That's a very big assumption to make.

Every God answers to him (he even appoints the Gods of Destruction, so we know he manages the whole balance system) and he can, nonchalantly, destroy Universes on a whim without consequences. Like I said, as far as we know, that's a pretty fair assumption to make. If he didn't create them, who did?

You're obviously not listening. I've said this SEVERAL times, but even though Goku didn't intend for it to be like it is IT'S STILL HIS FAULT. This is undeniable fact. If goku didn't remind Zeno, Zeno wouldn't have done anything, MAKING IT FACTUALLY GOKU'S FAULT. It doesn't matter whether or not Goku should be blamed for it. FACTUALLY it's his fault.

Really dude? What i'm saying isn't complicated. Goku caused it. If the blurb is correct, that's absolute fact. I don't give a shit about his intentions, even though I HAVE mentioned it's ridiculously stupid for Goku to not expect something like this from a genocidal maniac like Zeno.

That's not how blame works, though. I don't really like to use "blame", I prefer "responsability" and the person who chooses to do something is the one that has it. Every single person can make choices and they answer for them and them only.

Are you kidding me? In the Cell arc, Goku even says himself the the Saiyans, Frieza, and Cell were ALL caused by him. And now in Super he was the reason Beerus woke up, he was still the reason for Frieza, and he was absolutely responsible for Black Goku. That A LOT of Goku causing the threats.

Like was pointed out, just because he feels responsible doesn't mean he was.

Pilaf: He went along with Bloomer and was attacked first.
Red Ribbon: They attacked him time and time again with growing threats so he decided to stop them for good. It was inevitable, anyway.
Piccolo Daimaou: Pilaf released him.
Piccolo: He took it upon himself to avenge his father. He saw Goku getting in the way of his world dominance plan as well.
Radits/Nappa/Vegeeta: I hope I don't have to explain that Goku didn't choose to get sent to Earth in the first place. Anyway, Radits would still go check on him. Nappa and Vegeeta went for the Dragon Balls that Piccolo happily gloated about.
Freeza: Freeza went for the Dragon Balls. They got in his way. Was thought to be dead by the explosion/Goku's blast.
Artificial Humans: Gero choose to create Artificial Humans because Goku destroyed his precious evil army. Cell was just supposed to be the perfect creation, Piccolo's cells were what made him last as long as he did. In Trunks' timeline no one was warned, in the series' one they choose not to do a thing.
Boo: Babidi set things into motion and Goku chose not to go SS3 against Vegeeta.
Beers: He had a dream and decided to go ask Saiyajins about God.
Golden Freeza: Got ressurected and wanted revenge.
Champa: The tournament was Champa's idea and Goku sugested the rules.
Zamasu: He was further triggered by seeing a ningen with God ki.
Zen'ou: He got the idea for the tournament because of the one Champa and Beers held. In no way "having a tournament" means "destroying Universes".

Arguably, the only times Goku could be held responsible was for not stopping Gero and turning SS3 against Vegeeta. In the former case, though, he knew they had three years to train and get stronger and, as we saw, #19 and #20 were no threat at all. In the latter case, he had limited time on Earth, wasn't used to SS3 and thought Boo would be a pushover like Babidi's henchmen were.

So, as you can see, he was hardly the cause of anything in Dragon Ball and, regardless, they'd be fucked over everytime had things not happen the way they did.

[darzap]

Boo: Babidi set things into motion and Goku chose not to go SS3 against Vegeeta.

Even then, one could argue that going SSJ3 would have either allowed Babidi to gather sufficient energy to resurrect Buu immediately or it would have left Goku out of time to defeat Dabura, so Babidi could gather the energy from a Gohan vs. Dabura fight. The only way to get out of that situation would have been to make Vegeta realize his mistakes without fighting him, which would not be an easy thing to do either.

[TekTheNinja]

Really? Really? What I'm saying isn't complicated. No, Goku doesn't MEAN to cause the things he causes, BUT HE STILL CAUSES THEM.

[Lujin_16]

What you guys think about this ending song text?? Hints that some angels will become the villains in the universe survival arc??
If this is true than poor Vegeta & Goku

[ArchedThunder]

What you guys think about this ending song text?? Hints that some angels will become the villains in the universe survival arc??
If this is true than poor Vegeta & Goku

The ending themes are generally unrelated to the show.

[Simere]

Really? Really? What I'm saying isn't complicated. No, Goku doesn't MEAN to cause the things he causes, BUT HE STILL CAUSES THEM.

No one's missing the line you've drawn between Goku and the villains' actions. You can always play the blame game and shift responsibility to someone or something else. Most people agree that responsibility for a person's actions generally falls upon that person.

[SansrivaaL]

Really? Really? What I'm saying isn't complicated. No, Goku doesn't MEAN to cause the things he causes, BUT HE STILL CAUSES THEM.

It isnt really complicated to grasp why they dont agree with you, blaming it all on Goku isnt really the way to go, saying this universal arc's consequences as his fault is wrong, it will happen one way or another since Zeno was the one that wanted to do another one, if we look at it from a further view, it was Chanpa's fault since he was the one who wanted to do a tournament, none of this is Goku's fault, he just went with the flow since he too likes the idea, unless you think that its Goku's fault because he didnt reject Zeno's proposal about having another tournament with all the universes.

[kinisking]

Everyone gets what you're saying but at the end of the day it's Zeno's fault.

[Ki Breaker]

No matter how you look at it, zeno is responsible for universal destruction..
Blaming goku for this is no different than blaming trunks for Zamasu's mass genocide..

[emperior]

Goku shouldn't even be blamed for the androids, as Red Ribbon was an evil organization with evil plans, it was mentioned not even the police could do anything against them, this means the police tried to stop them.
Goku did a great job destroying the army, too bad they had Dr Gero who was clearly a psychopatic. He and Vegeta should be blamed for not wanting to locate Gero and kill him before-hand, although Trunks specifically went back to the past to find a way to destroy the androids in both timelines.

Goku should be blamed because he didn't kill Majin Buu when he could and because he preferred to enjoy a fight with Vegeta, awakening Buu in the process. In the end Goku was able to kill Majin Buu and everything went back to normal.
And Goku has done so much more good than bad. If the Earth is there and everyone still alive it's thanks to Goku.

[Hellspawn28]

Boo: Babidi set things into motion and Goku chose not to go SS3 against Vegeeta.

Goku being on Earth for one day is the reason why Vegeta fell under Babidi's spell. If he kept his mouth shut during Gohan's fight with Dabra or if Goku was not on Earth for 24 hours, we would never had Buu be awaken.

[Kanassa]

Really? Really? What I'm saying isn't complicated. No, Goku doesn't MEAN to cause the things he causes, BUT HE STILL CAUSES THEM.

No, you just don't understand how fault works. It relies on a consequence coming about due to that persons actions
Direct fault - Goku choosing not to go after Gero when warned
Indirect - Pushing Zamasu off the edge

These actions have him willingly choosing the circumstance that leads him into the concequence, whether he knows or not. And yes, that makes him reminding the omni-king indirectly his fault, but it's understandable why he'd make this mistake. With fault, it does not matter if your action was justified or not, that just changes the reaction to it.

The Saiyans were not his fault, he had no choice in the matter (He was a baby!) and those were not his actions. He didn't go to Earth, he was sent to Earth.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Wasn't the decision not to go after Gero a unanimous decision by the stupid cast? So they're pretty much all to blame for that too.