"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Jinzoningen MULE]

There has been no proof, hinting, nor mention that any character has 'mastered' anything beyond the base Super Saiyan. Mastery of the base Super Saiyan form was a significant plot point of an entire arc of Dragonball Z. At no point since has anyone said; "Hey, lets repeat that process with Super Saiyan 2." At no point in the series has Goku thought to himself "Hey, I've only used Super Saiyan 3 a handful of times ever. Maybe if I train with it for a while I can mitigate it's Ki guzzling effects."

Unless someone coughs up some concrete evidence that proves without a shadow of a doubt (or differing interpretation) that characters have taken SS2/SS3 as far as it possibly can go and there is nowhere left to improve, stuff your personal headcannon in a box and keep it there. Watching people argue over who they think has 'mastered' higher transformations when there's no evidence suggesting anything of the sort is nauseating.

It's a placeholder term, don't get your panties in a wad just because you don't like our conversations. It's more aggravating than anything else, but nausea, disgust, etc. also describe my feelings right now somewhat accurately.

[Nejishiki]

I don't see the contradiction there. Cell's threats were a means to get everyone training in hopes of matching his strength.

No Cell. Was going to follow through with them.

Nothing in the narrative suggests other wise

I Remember. I Remember!

Cell: "One last question."
Cell: "You weren't in my league, but you and Vegeta did both improve dramatically in a short period of time."
Cell: "How did you do that?"
Future Trunks: "..."
Cell: "Fine. So don't tell me. Try this question instead..."
Cell: "Would you improve further if you had the time?"
Future Trunks: "!?"
Cell: "Well?"
Future Trunks: "...How should I know...?! I won't know until I try!"
Future Trunks: "But why are you asking this...?"
Cell: "Hmph..."
Cell: "So it's not impossible..."

Cell: "I welcome any and all who think they've got what it takes to beat me!"
Cell: "Hah!!!"
Cameraman: "YAAA!"
Cell: "If you don't want to turn out like this—"
Cell: "You'd better find someone who can fight."

It's not ambiguous. Cell wants everyone to get stronger, gives them extra time to accomplish the task, & goes the extra step to publicly motivate all martial artists harder.

I believe it was clearly stated that the universe survival arc would start in this months manga chapter.. so i don't know where all your doubts come from? They could easily cramp it all up in 1 chapter. Have the first half be about the ending of the Zamasu arc. And the second half the start of the universe survival arc.

That wasn't announced for the manga release of Dragon Ball Super, much less "clearly".

[MyNiggaGoku]

sooo any news on chapter 20 leaks?

[Noah]

sooo any news on chapter 20 leaks?

Give a time, when you least expect, it comes

[Ki Breaker]

sooo any news on chapter 20 leaks?

Give a time, when you least expect, it comes

I can confirm this

[alakazam^]

Mastering isn't a work in progress if you read the manga which this series is supposed to be a sequel to, they MASTERED it, as in it's done, over, finito. They made it a super powered Base state until Super needed Blue, a cheap recolor of regular Super Saiyan, to somehow work with KK and to retroactively explain why Goku never tries this with regular Super Saiyan and it does it poorly.

Blue is perfectly hateable just because it's another bad recolor that's being pushed around as "a new design" this is a continuous problem with the new material and I'll be damned if 60-70% of the "new" characters we get in the next arc aren't all copies of Saiyan's, Freeza, Namekian's, Beerus, Whis too. The mechanics are also dumb, how can a form be consuming stamina wise and give you perfect ki control, surely this perfect control should aford you the ability to decide how much or how little power it'll take up. Kind of like... Oh I don't know... Mastered Super Saiyan 1 does just fine in the Cell arc?

I read the manga and they didn't "master" a thing, what they did was getting used to it in order to lower the strain to a bare minimum, like it was their base state. The form still takes its toll, as proven by them being told not to Potara fuse while in it. Besides, Toriyama said, and I quote:

Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more.

If he realized that after Beers, then it wasn't mastered until then, was it?

And Blue doesn't have "perfect" ki control, it is superior in it. And why is it a "bad recolor"? What color would be "good"? Why is a different color "bad"? A different color makes it a new design, whether you like it or not.

I don't know why people insist on posting hatred without proper backing it up when they could just write stuff on paper and vent it that way.

[ekrolo2]

I read the manga and they didn't "master" a thing, what they did was getting used to it in order to lower the strain to a bare minimum, like it was their base state. The form still takes its toll, as proven by them being told not to Potara fuse while in it. Besides, Toriyama said, and I quote:

Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more.

That quote is made almost 20 years after he wrote the manga and like everything he said at the time of the films doesn't amount to anything since SS1 was replaced by F with Blue then SS1-3 to were re-introduced in the U6 arc and weren't discarded because of efficiency, but because Blue is just a bigger power increase. Them making SS1 as good as their Base state is what makes it "mastered". All of the drawbacks from before are gone until Super said "lol nope!".

And Blue doesn't have "perfect" ki control, it is superior in it. And why is it a "bad recolor"? What color would be "good"? Why is a different color "bad"? A different color makes it a new design, whether you like it or not.

I don't know why people insist on posting hatred without proper backing it up when they could just write stuff on paper and vent it that way.

[/quote]
I don't get how much superior you can get then SS once it becomes essentially a more powerful Base form. The Daisuki subs even take this absurd retconning to new heights by saying SS1 takes a toll on Goku's body and that Blue gives Goku "strength, a pure heart, and complete energy control"

A "new" design that's basically a recolor of an old one, it doesn't change the eyes or the physique or anything, it really is just a paint over job of Super Saiyan. Even Golden Freeza and SSGod which aren't much better made some noticeable physical alterations to differentiate them from Freeza's regular state and Goku's Base. Hell, SSRose has a bigger difference in appearance than Blue with the way it changes the hair. All of these are poor designs for new forms but Blue is the bottom of this respective barrel.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

sooo any news on chapter 20 leaks?

If you have to ask, they haven't leaked yet.

[Neon Z]

That quote is made almost 20 years after he wrote the manga and like everything he said at the time of the films doesn't amount to anything since SS1 was replaced by F with Blue then SS1-3 to were re-introduced in the U6 arc and weren't discarded because of efficiency, but because Blue is just a bigger power increase. Them making SS1 as good as their Base state is what makes it "mastered". All of the drawbacks from before are gone until Super said "lol nope!".

Technically, it was the Buu Saga that said "lol nope!". The old Kai there said that if they were SSJs while fusing into Vegetto they'd stay stuck in that form, and it'd weight on their body and shorten their life spam, something that directly contradicts Goku's Cell Saga training.

[Draconic]

Why does 'mastering' Super Saiyan mean that the form would have no strain on the body anymore? If I 'master' lifting 700 kg with one hand, it doesn't mean that the weight will not have a strain on my arm, just that I'm used to it. It's the same with Super Saiyan; it's not that taxing the body anymore, but it's still a transformation with the strain that comes with it.

Blue on the other hand is said to have better Ki control, but still having a strain too. So the Ki it uses is better, but since it's still a new form it takes a toll on the body. Going back to the example from above: If I manage to achieve the strenght to lift 700 kg over my head in an even more efficient way than before, it doesn't mean that I can control when my muscles will eventually tire out.

So, in short "mastering" Super Saiyan =/= no strain and better Ki control =/= no drain.

[Nejishiki]

Technically, it was the Buu Saga that said "lol nope!". The old Kai there said that if they were SSJs while fusing into Vegetto they'd stay stuck in that form, and it'd weight on their body and shorten their life spam, something that directly contradicts Goku's Cell Saga training.

Super Saiyan's cost isn't completely free when battling somebody (as Draconic elaborated). Goku & Gohan's motive was minimizing the strain of a powered-up Super Saiyan. They aren't relaxed when that happens. Using example from both individuals of the same training method, Goku exhausted himself going all-out against Cell. Gohan, by comparison through his brief clashes with Cell, didn't burn significant ki. Gohan surpassing his father is the simple explanation for that difference in performance. However, to say they're always neutral with Super Saiyan Grade IV isn't exactly accurate. A standby, permanent Super Saiyan Gohatto/Vegetto would be fine but it's likely those referenced side effects occur when raising their Potara-enhanced ki. I just realized this mid-paragraph but Old Kaioshin was referring to Gohan anyway. I'll bet it's not a good mix to merge Super Saiyan & Gohan's Kaioshin enchantment. If you feel the need to dismiss that distinction, raising their ki as eternal Super Saiyans of Potara origin is still something to consider.

[Darkprince410]

That quote is made almost 20 years after he wrote the manga and like everything he said at the time of the films doesn't amount to anything since SS1 was replaced by F with Blue then SS1-3 to were re-introduced in the U6 arc and weren't discarded because of efficiency, but because Blue is just a bigger power increase. Them making SS1 as good as their Base state is what makes it "mastered". All of the drawbacks from before are gone until Super said "lol nope!".

Technically, it was the Buu Saga that said "lol nope!". The old Kai there said that if they were SSJs while fusing into Vegetto they'd stay stuck in that form, and it'd weight on their body and shorten their life spam, something that directly contradicts Goku's Cell Saga training.

The training wasn't ever to completely eliminate the stress and strain of the form, just greatly diminish it. The form still taxes the body more than their base form will, and thus being in that state permanently, unable to power down, would still be more stress than the base.

[ssj_duelist]

V-jump is in people's hands, the yugioh stuff has been leaked so should expect Manga in the next day or 2.

[OLKv3]

V-jump is in people's hands, the yugioh stuff has been leaked so should expect Manga in the next day or 2.

More like later today

[The gr]

V-jump is in people's hands, the yugioh stuff has been leaked so should expect Manga in the next day or 2.

More like later today

I highly doubt it if the leaks appear today but is highly possible to appear tomorrow through

[Jinzoningen MULE]

V-jump is in people's hands, the yugioh stuff has been leaked so should expect Manga in the next day or 2.

More like later today

I highly doubt it if the leaks appear today but is highly possible to appear tomorrow through

Believe whatever you want, but there's no reason they shouldn't appear today. Granted, we probably won't get the full chapter for a little while.

[OLKv3]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Is that a dwarf? Also

YonkouProductions ‏@YonkouProd 16s16 seconds ago

DBS Manga is not yet done with the Future Trunks arc as of Chapter 20. Still good amount to go.

Told you that Toyo's comments were misinterpreted. It's not being rushed

[The gr]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Is that a dwarf? Also

YonkouProductions ‏@YonkouProd 16s16 seconds ago

DBS Manga is not yet done with the Future Trunks arc as of Chapter 20. Still good amount to go.

Told you that Toyo's comments were misinterpreted. It's not being rushed

So did toyotaro draw that

[Slaythe]

You do realize he has entire MONTHS to do what other mangakas do in weeks.

He finished the Trunks arc, went on the new arc, gave that to anime team.

We are getting the chapters late since they only get them out once per month.

The info wasn't that the manga would get ahead in the Vjump, it was that the anime team could use his work as reference.

[OLKv3]

You do realize he has entire MONTHS to do what other mangakas do in weeks.

He finished the Trunks arc, went on the new arc, gave that to anime team.

We are getting the chapters late since they only get them out once per month.

The info wasn't that the manga would get ahead in the Vjump, it was that the anime team could use his work as reference.

lol why are you repeating what I said?

And to gr, pretty sure that's Toriyama art