"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[mute_proxy]

Nope, Zamasu became a Kaioshin the moment he killed Gowasu and we don't know precisely if Kais possess God Ki or not

Goku Black & Future Zamasu were never official Kaioshin. Their usage of the Potara are unauthorized given that they stole them. All Kaio(shin) are capable of feeling godly ki.

Only Kaioshin can use the time ring. When he killed Gowasu and took his Potara, he took over as Kaioshin

[Nejishiki]

Nope, Zamasu became a Kaioshin the moment he killed Gowasu and we don't know precisely if Kais possess God Ki or not

Goku Black & Future Zamasu were never official Kaioshin. Their usage of the Potara are unauthorized given that they stole them. All Kaio(shin) are capable of feeling godly ki.

Only Kaioshin can use the time ring. When he killed Gowasu and took his Potara, he took over as Kaioshin

I should have been clearer but I was specifically calling Goku Black & Future Zamasu unauthorized Kaioshin. They possess the Potara & Time Ring, yes, but they were never officially promoted from their Kaio status. Do recall that Gowasu had to share his Potara with Zamasu so that he may time travel with him.

[mute_proxy]

Goku Black & Future Zamasu were never official Kaioshin. Their usage of the Potara are unauthorized given that they stole them. All Kaio(shin) are capable of feeling godly ki.

Only Kaioshin can use the time ring. When he killed Gowasu and took his Potara, he took over as Kaioshin

I should have been clearer but I was specifically calling Goku Black & Future Zamasu unauthorized Kaioshin. They possess the Potara & Time Ring, yes, but they were never officially promoted from their Kaio status. Do recall that Gowasu had to share his Potara with Zamasu so that he may time travel with him.

Not officially, but technically they are lol

[SansrivaaL]

BTW I'm a lil confused here, Black and Zamasu became a kaioshin because they have the potara's of a kaioshin right? so is Vegito like a kaioshin? since wearing the earring seems to be enough, but then why did Gowasu said that the fusion wouldnt be stable because they arent kaioshins when both of them were wearing the earrings? is there something I'm not getting?

[mute_proxy]

Maybe because Goku and Vegeta are "ningen" so they can't be Kaioshin?

[SansrivaaL]

Maybe because Goku and Vegeta are "ningen" so they can't be Kaioshin?

But isnt Black technically a "ningen/saiyan"? but yet seems to be a kaioshin.

[mute_proxy]

The ki he's emitting is that of Zamasu, so... It's not just the body that makes a deity a deity

[SansrivaaL]

The ki he's emitting is that of Zamasu, so...

But his race is still that of a ningen.... this is weird
Then shouldnt Goku and Vegeta have a permanent fusion between them if they fuse while being in SSJB form since its a form utilizing God Ki?

[mute_proxy]

The ki he's emitting is that of Zamasu, so...

But his race is still that of a ningen.... this is weird
Then shouldnt Goku and Vegeta have a permanent fusion between them if they fuse while being in SSJB form since its a form utilizing God Ki?

They're using god ki, but they're not gods can we stop now?

[Doctor.]

We've barely seen any of the new chapter yet, even less of it has been translated. Sounds like you've made your mind up beforehand, not that I mind if you don't like it.

Or have I missed something?

It's not like Dragon Ball is hard to get. We've had multiple chapters with Black so far, plus Herms has been translating the most important parts of the chapter on his Twitter and most of the pages are out; I already know the relevant information, two or three untranslated speech bubbles aren't gonna make a big difference. All the interesting character traits I liked about him are gone, I already disliked him last chapter, this one is just an addendum.

Can you be specific?

I still call BS on Black jobbing so hard that he matched himself to Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta when he's using Super Saiyan 1/2. Like, why? He could have done that in his base. I would have preferred if Black fought Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta in base, then transformed into a Super Super 1/2 when confronting with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta and then get his butt wiped. And why did Black have a breakdown if this was all according to plan?

The main traits are there (being Zamasu, getting stronger through pain), but the traits I liked most about Black are gone or underdeveloped. His delicate, flamboyant fighting style and attitude replaced with a bruttish behavior in battle. His cool and collected composure as he looked for new ways to improve when outmatched replaced with a generic DB mental breakdown. His pretentious attitude being played straight instead of being ridiculed. His obsession over Goku and his weird respect towards him and the Saiyans is almost nonexistent.

[SansrivaaL]

The ki he's emitting is that of Zamasu, so...

But his race is still that of a ningen.... this is weird
Then shouldnt Goku and Vegeta have a permanent fusion between them if they fuse while being in SSJB form since its a form utilizing God Ki?

They're using god ki, but they're not gods can we stop now?

So was Black after the swap, hence why Goku said his ki was different from Zamasu.
That reason aint cutting it, a God ki is a GOD KI, if they have access to it then they're Gods.
You're free to stop if you want, the question wasnt specifically for you

[Basako]

I think I would have prefered if the manga had actually rushed the story in this poing, skipping the retreat, but at the same time, I'm very curious now. What's gonna happen with Trunks? He sacrifices himself so Goku and Vegeta can escape and he is so screwed in the end. Really, no way out. Well, I know he will make it in the end, we'll see how.

So, the Mafuba is going to be in the manga too, it was probably in Toriyama's draft. I'm curious about how it's going to be handled in the manga, because I didn't like it in the anime. Getting Goku learn it but finally Trunks using it, learning it like that. It was not good. Goku training with the turtle, that was so funny, I hope he does it again. Make Umigame a bit relevant again, it didn't happen since manga chapter two, I think.

The fight of Black and Vegeta, it was very good last chapter and it is so good again now. Tables have turned, now it's Black who is kicking Vegeta's ass. It reminds me of Namek, when Vegeta had continuous Zenkai boosts, so he could surpass enemies like Zarbon and Jeese, who were stronger right before. He had his own medicine this time. But, why is the Zenkai in Black so high? This boost became not relevant after the Namekian arc for our saiyans, could it be that it affects differently to Black because he is a god? Well, I think that is the best we can get. Like the hair, it looks cool, but making it different just because he is a god... Not great explanation for me, but that's what we've got, officially now.

And there is future Zamasu, proving he is immortal. Goku trying to kill an enemy, just like that, wow! I know he had killed Yakon, Boo and Freezer before but... He is pissed about this enemy, he stole his body. Does he know what happened to Chichi and Goten? Well, technically that was Black, not future Zamasu, but they are like the same. Zamasu burns the zensu beans, he is smart. Mai does nothing and where is Scratch?

There is a page of Beerus, Whis and Shin, let's see the traductions about that too.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Well, we finally have clear proof that SSBlue is heavily nerfed in the manga. SSBlue Vegeta is getting thrashed by SSJ2 Black. This along with SSJ Goku being in the same league as 10% of SSBlue Vegeta seals the deal, SSBlue is only a 500x multiplier.

[TKA]

No Cell. Was going to follow through with them.

Nothing in the narrative suggests other wise

I Remember. I Remember!

Cell is a composite of the saiyans and Frieza. He wants to challenge himself, much like a saiyan, but only so long as the challenge isn't greater than him, much like Frieza and Cold. He wants to fight as a means of showing off his superiority—his perfection—which is a combination of Saiyan and Frieza ideology. He gave them the 10 days to git gud because he was confident that no matter how much they trained, they still wouldn't be able to beat him, but they'd at least be good enough to give him a challenge. He has reason to think that since he saw how handily he beat Vegeta and Trunks. Note than when he comes back from death he dispenses with all that "chivalry" and proceeds to start killing, because someone proved to be stronger than him.

That's character nuance, and I'll take that any day over Zamas and Black endlessly repeating how much they hate mortals and how pretty the world is. Cell doesn't convey who he is through words, he does so through action: show; don't tell. Zamas and Black's character archetype has the potential to be much deeper than Cell's, but this show's writing wasn't and isn't sufficient enough to correctly convey that type of motive. That's why Cell is ultimately better: he's a villain that fits with the show's simple, but elegant and competent nature.

Also, to continue an earlier talking point, Cell is very much closer to a malevolent Goku than Black ever was. Black has very little in common with Goku as a character, unlike Cell. Cell, much like Goku, is a prodigy that learns everything much faster than everyone else. Cell, like Goku, makes stupid decisions just for the sake of fighting (and for Cell, fighting is a means to the end of proving his superiority, rather than fighting just for the fun of it like Goku: a contrast born of a comparison) and Cell, like Goku, were both sent to destroy Earth by fathers they never knew.

Of course, the story draws little attention to these similarities, so take them with a grain of salt. Looking at it purely academically, however, shows that Cell is a much better dark mirror to Goku than Goku Black (not that the story ever even tries to argue that Black and Goku are similar).

[Basako]

Well, we finally have clear proof that SSBlue is heavily nerfed in the manga. SSBlue Vegeta is getting thrashed by SSJ2 Black. This along with SSJ Goku being in the same league as 10% of SSBlue Vegeta seals the deal, SSBlue is only a 500x multiplier.

He doesn't get trashed, he doesn't even touch him. It shows that Black is much stronger than before, avoiding all Vegeta's attacks, that is true. He only trashes him once he is SSR.

[ssj_duelist]

Well, we finally have clear proof that SSBlue is heavily nerfed in the manga. SSBlue Vegeta is getting thrashed by SSJ2 Black. This along with SSJ Goku being in the same league as 10% of SSBlue Vegeta seals the deal, SSBlue is only a 500x multiplier.

If it's 500× then that confirms it weaker than ss4. As golden oozaru was 500 but ss4 was stronger.

[Simere]

Well, we finally have clear proof that SSBlue is heavily nerfed in the manga. SSBlue Vegeta is getting thrashed by SSJ2 Black. This along with SSJ Goku being in the same league as 10% of SSBlue Vegeta seals the deal, SSBlue is only a 500x multiplier.

He doesn't get trashed, he doesn't even touch him. It shows that Black is much stronger than before, avoiding all Vegeta's attacks, that is true. He only trashes him once he is SSR.

You must have missed some panels. He beats him so hard that Vegeta is forced to take a senzu.

[Basako]

Well, we finally have clear proof that SSBlue is heavily nerfed in the manga. SSBlue Vegeta is getting thrashed by SSJ2 Black. This along with SSJ Goku being in the same league as 10% of SSBlue Vegeta seals the deal, SSBlue is only a 500x multiplier.

He doesn't get trashed, he doesn't even touch him. It shows that Black is much stronger than before, avoiding all Vegeta's attacks, that is true. He only trashes him once he is SSR.

You must have missed some panels. He beats him so hard that Vegeta is forced to take a senzu.

Maybe you are right, he does take a senzu bean. Zamasu uses some kind of technique that surrounds Vegeta, hurting him, that was still in SS1/2.

[SansrivaaL]

Well, we finally have clear proof that SSBlue is heavily nerfed in the manga. SSBlue Vegeta is getting thrashed by SSJ2 Black. This along with SSJ Goku being in the same league as 10% of SSBlue Vegeta seals the deal, SSBlue is only a 500x multiplier.

He doesn't get trashed, he doesn't even touch him. It shows that Black is much stronger than before, avoiding all Vegeta's attacks, that is true. He only trashes him once he is SSR.

SSJB Vegeta was getting mopped by SSJ Black, forces him to take a senzu and continues to wipe the floor with him, then goes SSJR to make em feel that they never had a chance to begin with, sadistic mf.

[Basako]

Well, we finally have clear proof that SSBlue is heavily nerfed in the manga. SSBlue Vegeta is getting thrashed by SSJ2 Black. This along with SSJ Goku being in the same league as 10% of SSBlue Vegeta seals the deal, SSBlue is only a 500x multiplier.

He doesn't get trashed, he doesn't even touch him. It shows that Black is much stronger than before, avoiding all Vegeta's attacks, that is true. He only trashes him once he is SSR.

SSJB Vegeta was getting mopped by SSJ Black, forces him to take a senzu and continues to wipe the floor with him, then goes SSJR to make em feel that they never had a chance to begin with, sadistic mf.

Not exactly. I was wrong but you are wrong too. Black is already changed when Vegeta takes the senzu bean and then is when he kicks him hardly. In SS1/2, it's true he uses some kind of paralizing techinque that hurts Vegeta, so he takes the bean to recover.

Edit: Nah, I was wrong, the order of the pages was mixed where I was reading the leaks.