Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[nite_jay]

A lot of people neglect the fact Toriyama's current style would not work nearly as well for combat as his old drawings. However, Yamamuro's aren't animation-friendly either.

I don't really get what this means. Do you mean that they don't look as menacing or something? Honestly, his old drawing seemed a lot less animation friendly compared to his new ones.

Sure, I didn't phrase that as well as I should have. What I mean is that it wouldn't be identifiable as Dragon Ball, especially so during action sequences. Also, some techniques that are used to create the illusion of speed work better with angular models, Toriyama's modern drawings are round. Granted, this isn't to say that there's no place for roundness in DB, Tate has proven quite the opposite to me. However, Dragon Ball is especially notorious for its angular style and rapid feel, something that Toriyama's new style doesn't compliment.

That said, they also don't use as many of those old tricks as they used to, so there is definitely an argument to be made for a rounder style, but it isn't the direction that I want out of a modern DB anime.

I'd say that maybe like only about half of Dragonball is actually angular, though; but I don't really think that matters with Super. Its a new show that doesn't really need to try and look like it's predecessors too much. The Boo arc ended like 20 years ago, so I don't know why we need to use the same style but downgraded.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Its a new show that doesn't really need to try and look like it's predecessors too much. The Boo arc ended like 20 years ago, so I don't know why we need to use the same style but downgraded.

I'm not suggesting that it needs to look exactly like it did all those years ago, just that it should be recognizable as a continuation of the old, which Toriyama's new style doesn't represent. The latest Pokemon is a great example of how to have a new style while not entirely parting from the old. I'd be fine with a departure of that tier, maybe scaled back just a tad.

That said, I don't dislike Toriyama's new art. If he were still willing to draw a regular manga, I'd throw however much money Shueisha wanted to charge me for it.

[nite_jay]

Its a new show that doesn't really need to try and look like it's predecessors too much. The Boo arc ended like 20 years ago, so I don't know why we need to use the same style but downgraded.

I'm not suggesting that it needs to look exactly like it did all those years ago, just that it should be recognizable as a continuation of the old, which Toriyama's new style doesn't represent. The latest Pokemon is a great example of how to have a new style while not entirely parting from the old. I'd be fine with a departure of that tier, maybe scaled back just a tad.

That said, I don't dislike Toriyama's new art. If he were still willing to draw a regular manga, I'd throw however much money Shueisha wanted to charge me for it.

In my opinion his new style still seems like a natural progression of his previous works. It just looks like a sleeker and more modern version of Dragonball.

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

The main difference I'd say with his newer stuff besides the less "buff" proportions is that he doesn't draw the eyes as angular all the time. But they still do look reminiscent of his older stuff.

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

[Saikyo no Senshi]

Does Toei distribute its staff according to their skills?

Animators get to choose which cut or cuts they want to do. But, I'm not sure if newbies or inexperienced animators are given that freedom. Someone like Tate, I'm pretty sure does what he wants to.

Usually, the episode director decides which cut will be assigned to who. He decides that obviously based on the skill of the available staff. Sometimes, a sequence is drawn in the storyboard by the storyboard artist with a specific animator in mind.

[emperior]

Am I the only one that doesn't like Toriyamas current artstyle, and actually prefer yamamuros character designs more? Atleast its closer to the dbz artstyle of the mid 90s

I like Toriyama's new style a lot but I prefer the anime to be like it is now, as it feels much more familiar to me. It would feel too different if they used Toriyama's new style and I'm quite sure I would grow tired of it fast.
But I would be interested in seeing an OVA/movie/whatever animated with Toriyama's new style.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Am I the only one that doesn't like Toriyamas current artstyle, and actually prefer yamamuros character designs more? Atleast its closer to the dbz artstyle of the mid 90s

I like Toriyama's new style a lot but I prefer the anime to be like it is now, as it feels much more familiar to me. It would feel too different if they used Toriyama's new style and I'm quite sure I would grow tired of it fast.
But I would be interested in seeing an OVA/movie/whatever animated with Toriyama's new style.

Ugh... everything is so bland, uninteresting as it is now. No matter what, keeping things as-is is not a useful ideal. I think you need to watch some better produced anime, get a fresh perspective on how troubled and visually boring this series actually is.

[emperior]

Am I the only one that doesn't like Toriyamas current artstyle, and actually prefer yamamuros character designs more? Atleast its closer to the dbz artstyle of the mid 90s

I like Toriyama's new style a lot but I prefer the anime to be like it is now, as it feels much more familiar to me. It would feel too different if they used Toriyama's new style and I'm quite sure I would grow tired of it fast.
But I would be interested in seeing an OVA/movie/whatever animated with Toriyama's new style.

Ugh... everything is so bland, uninteresting as it is now. No matter what, keeping things as-is is not a useful ideal. I think you need to watch some better produced anime, get a fresh perspective on how troubled and visually boring this series actually is.

I admit I am very ignorant on this matter, though it's not like I wouldn't want a new character designer on Super, I would love it if they brought back Nakatsuru as a character designer, or if somebody else tried his hand at it, as long as Super looks and feels like Dragon Ball Z. Maybe even Toriyama's current style would be good, but just imagine the uproar it would cause if they really used his current style for characters design.

By the way, I believe one of the main flaws of Super are its colors. If they just removed the white highlights it would look much better (Black is an example of this)

[Mazingerdestro]

Am I the only one that doesn't like Toriyamas current artstyle, and actually prefer yamamuros character designs more? Atleast its closer to the dbz artstyle of the mid 90s

I don't enjoy Toriyama's current art style either.
Skinny, short, with big headscreen characters are better for a gag manga than a battle manga. I dont like how the heads are rounded like none of the characters have jaws. Also Toriyama seems to have forgotten to draw Goku since his black design was quite off than his usual.

I follow Toriyama from db till now and I have to admit that his current art is by far the weakest. His z (specifically cell games till the end of buu) was his highest point with Jaco been the point he stopped drawing cool characters with details and focused more on easy drawings with everyone having the same body structure and face shape.

Personally, I don't even get the people who enjoy his current state. He just gives simple designs about the characters as fast as possible. Nothing more nothing less.

Both Yamamuro's and Toyotaro's designs are by far superior from current Toriyama. Most people hate Yamamuro's designs thinking that this is the reason the show has off model moments (which it isnt). Toyotaro would be a great character designer for the anime.

[Gashif Aldi]

I like Toyotato. He's like the better version of Toriyama (for me). [spoiler][/spoiler]

It just looks so fluid, good, and menacing.

It's like Toriyama's design but simplified/suited for anime

Picture Credit: Herms on Twitter.

[iAnimationLover_]

Am I the only one that doesn't like Toriyamas current artstyle, and actually prefer yamamuros character designs more? Atleast its closer to the dbz artstyle of the mid 90s

I don't enjoy Toriyama's current art style either.
Skinny, short, with big headscreen characters are better for a gag manga than a battle manga. I dont like how the heads are rounded like none of the characters have jaws. Also Toriyama seems to have forgotten to draw Goku since his black design was quite off than his usual.

I follow Toriyama from db till now and I have to admit that his current art is by far the weakest. His z (specifically cell games till the end of buu) was his highest point with Jaco been the point he stopped drawing cool characters with details and focused more on easy drawings with everyone having the same body structure and face shape.

Personally, I don't even get the people who enjoy his current state. He just gives simple designs about the characters as fast as possible. Nothing more nothing less.

Both Yamamuro's and Toyotaro's designs are by far superior from current Toriyama. Most people hate Yamamuro's designs thinking that this is the reason the show has off model moments (which it isnt). Toyotaro would be a great character designer for the anime.

Consider his age, c'mon bro

[Gashif Aldi]

Am I the only one that doesn't like Toriyamas current artstyle, and actually prefer yamamuros character designs more? Atleast its closer to the dbz artstyle of the mid 90s

I don't enjoy Toriyama's current art style either.
Skinny, short, with big headscreen characters are better for a gag manga than a battle manga. I dont like how the heads are rounded like none of the characters have jaws. Also Toriyama seems to have forgotten to draw Goku since his black design was quite off than his usual.

I follow Toriyama from db till now and I have to admit that his current art is by far the weakest. His z (specifically cell games till the end of buu) was his highest point with Jaco been the point he stopped drawing cool characters with details and focused more on easy drawings with everyone having the same body structure and face shape.

Personally, I don't even get the people who enjoy his current state. He just gives simple designs about the characters as fast as possible. Nothing more nothing less.

Both Yamamuro's and Toyotaro's designs are by far superior from current Toriyama. Most people hate Yamamuro's designs thinking that this is the reason the show has off model moments (which it isnt). Toyotaro would be a great character designer for the anime.

Consider his age, c'mon bro

Well, that's why we are with Toyotaro. But, really. It's pretty smart of Toriyama to choose this guy. Toyotaro is amazing, he is really is the legacy of Toriyama. But, he never dared to add something big in the manga.

[Mazingerdestro]

Am I the only one that doesn't like Toriyamas current artstyle, and actually prefer yamamuros character designs more? Atleast its closer to the dbz artstyle of the mid 90s

I don't enjoy Toriyama's current art style either.
Skinny, short, with big headscreen characters are better for a gag manga than a battle manga. I dont like how the heads are rounded like none of the characters have jaws. Also Toriyama seems to have forgotten to draw Goku since his black design was quite off than his usual.

I follow Toriyama from db till now and I have to admit that his current art is by far the weakest. His z (specifically cell games till the end of buu) was his highest point with Jaco been the point he stopped drawing cool characters with details and focused more on easy drawings with everyone having the same body structure and face shape.

Personally, I don't even get the people who enjoy his current state. He just gives simple designs about the characters as fast as possible. Nothing more nothing less.

Both Yamamuro's and Toyotaro's designs are by far superior from current Toriyama. Most people hate Yamamuro's designs thinking that this is the reason the show has off model moments (which it isnt). Toyotaro would be a great character designer for the anime.

Consider his age, c'mon bro

No no no no, I am not insulting Tori!!!! I love his work!!! I meant to say that due to his age the guy draws fast and doesn't have the power to do detailed work!! By no means I meant something negative, just that his highest point was Buu saga and Cell games for me. I am not against him drawing some characters. Heck I love how even in this age he cares (unlike Togashi....oops)

Well, that's why we are with Toyotaro. But, really. It's pretty smart of Toriyama to choose this guy. Toyotaro is amazing, he is really is the legacy of Toriyama. But, he never dared to add something big in the manga.

I don't think we know the specifics about Toyotaro. I mean if Toei saw him and said "hey a chibi Toriyama" or Toriyama saw his heroes work and said "hey a chibi me!!!" (Even though I doubt that the second one happened). It would be great if Toyotaro had an interview explaining how he was chosen for Super (Of course when it comes to heroes Toei, bandai, and Shueisha won't let him say that they saw his dojinshi. If I am not mistaken, they don't want to promote kids to seek a mangaka job instead of universities. My idea is due to already having too many mangakas and assistants in the market and only few of them make good money)

[Shreyas_Singh]

Does outsourcing the animation to other countries hurt Japanese animators ? For example, Toei outsources to Wanpack,etc sometimes for coping with Super's schedule .Does that hurt the Toei animators or the average Japanese animator in general (in the long run) in any way possible? If yes then how?

[Psykomatik]

I'm watcihng attack on titan right now. and yet you never see charecters looking like crap. even in those shots that are far way they allwayes look complete and pulished.

From episode 1. Yeah, i know, i suck...

[iAnimationLover_]

Does outsourcing the animation to other countries hurt Japanese animators ? For example, Toei outsources to Wanpack,etc sometimes for coping with Super's schedule .Does that hurt the Toei animators or the average Japanese animator in general (in the long run) in any way possible? If yes then how?

If the "Japanese Animators" are Toei, Then no. It actually helps the schedule by giving the animators a +1 week to polish work.


I'm kinda in a rush so sorry if i didnt explain this properly

[Mazingerdestro]

Does outsourcing the animation to other countries hurt Japanese animators ? For example, Toei outsources to Wanpack,etc sometimes for coping with Super's schedule .Does that hurt the Toei animators or the average Japanese animator in general (in the long run) in any way possible? If yes then how?

Outsourcing is a process that allows a company to ensure that a project is produced on time as cheap as possible. For example a car manufacturer can't finish the wheelstory for its cars so wheel manufacturing is outsourced. However, cheap and fast implies "poor quality". For that reason quality control teams are send to the company that the project is outsourced to share their knowhows and ensure high quality.

I think Toei is skipping the last part and instead fixes the outsourced cuts once they arrive in Japan.

Obviously it helps with the schedules but can't ensure nothing beyond "the job gets done fast and cheap"

[ArchedThunder]

Does outsourcing the animation to other countries hurt Japanese animators ? For example, Toei outsources to Wanpack,etc sometimes for coping with Super's schedule .Does that hurt the Toei animators or the average Japanese animator in general (in the long run) in any way possible? If yes then how?

There aren't enough animators in Japan for all the anime that is produced, outsourcing is necessary.

[Shreyas_Singh]

Thanks for all the answers guys . I am aware that Japan is facing a demographic crisis (due to low birth rates) and the animator's working conditions are tough (which has been discussed to death at this point ) . So I guess outsourcing does bring something positive ,but it pains me to see that after going through all this ,they still get called lazy. I've heard suicide stories about my country's animators ,I can only imagine what its like overseas.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

Most of the outsourcing work is done by Japanese studios. Wanpack is a Japanese studio. The studios are within the same area mostly, so that outsourced work can be finished and handed to the main staff before broadcast as fast as possible.

Outsourcing is necessary, I'd say vital as of now cause the high number of titles the industry is producing and demanding every year, it's impossible to do it all in-house. KyoAni is the only studio that has little to no outsourcing in their projects and are almost always done in-house.

[JulieYBM]

Indeed, outsourcing is done because there simply are not enough animators in Japan at any given time, especially when the production is tight.