Things that grind your gears

[ekrolo2]

Lately I've been getting irked by some people, namely certain YouTubers, going on and on about how the upcoming arc of Super could be the darkest one yet, and how they want it to be incredibly dark. This annoys me because, even though it's had its serious moments, being dark and edgy was never Dragon Ball's thing. The ending to the Goku Black arc was incredibly dark by the series' standards, and that led to it being probably the most divisive and controversial arc in the series' entirety. I don't want a repeat of that for the upcoming arc, taken to new extremes. Tension can still be achieved without it. Call me soft if you will, but I fell in love with the adventure aspect of early Dragon Ball, and despite the Z portion of the series being a lot more serious, it was still fun and light-hearted at its core. I don't want a massive tonal shift to something that I feel has never been Dragon Ball's thing.

The ending to the Trunks arc isn't divisive because its dark, its divisive because its not executed well. It creates a bleak conclusion and then proceeds to deal with it by trying to pass it off as a bittersweet type deal (with a big emphasis on the sweet part) and it doesn't work. Trunks was already going nuts from just fighting Black for a year, this kind of ending to his struggles should've mentally and emotionally destroyed him.

Tone does not determine story quality, the story you're trying to tell should dictate the tone. The first DB arc is a lighthearted adventure about an ignorant hick with super powers getting involved with a bunch of selfish people and going on a road trip with them. That's appropriate.

The Saiyan arc is about an invading group of aliens who's profession is literally mass genocide and the good guys fighting them. In this story, the tone being more dark and serious is appropriate so when everyone either dies or gets left in a miserable state by the end, it works.

[Gog]

The golden form, and everyone's insistence that it's a recolor. I'm having an argument in another thread, and the people their keep on insisting that the golden form is a recolor, then they insisted that it was 90% recolor and 10% actual design. So I've decided that I'm going to go and compare the form to the most popular forms in the franchise.

Stuff like absorptions and techniques don't count.

SSJ
[spoiler][/spoiler]
This form is the worst, only a minor alteration, and color change, with minimal effort put into it, as a whole
Recolor 95% actual design 5%

SSJ2
[spoiler][/spoiler]
With only the tiniest difference from super saiyan 1, you will hardly ever actually notice that people are in super saiyan 2.
recolor 99.8% actual design .2%

SSJ3
[spoiler][/spoiler] A pleasant change of pace from the other two from it, however even the third child cannot escape the sins of the father, as the form still only has two things about it that are different.
Recolor 40 actual design 60%

SSJ4

[spoiler][/spoiler]
An oasis of design, to its first three fathers, super saiyan four ditches the traditional saiyan look and goes its own route.
recolor 0% actual design 100%

Ultimate evolution
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/dra ... 1023124834
The form completely ditches what we all imagined a further form above the finial one to look like, instead it chooses, to go golden, remove the top gems, shrink the remaining others, gives it a super saiyan three brow, increases the muscle mass, and makes the user taller.

Recolor 0%, actual design 100%

You have a point about the percentages regarding the other forms/transformations, but claiming that Golden Freeza is 0% recolor is kind of silly.

I was annoyed annoyed while writing this, so saying that Golden Freeza is 0% recolor was just me venting.

[Cetra]

Well, recolor is not so much the problem but re-shape. Freeza looks extremely similiar except a few lines added or removed and some more musles/eye lines. But maybe that was meant.

The greatest change is that his androgynous look from his normal form(final form) changes to very masculine in his Golden form. Though he already lost a lot of his androgynous look depending on who drew the normal form during time x.

[Gog]

Well, recolor is not so much the problem but re-shape. Freeza looks extremely similiar except a few lines added or removed and some more musles/eye lines. But maybe that was meant.

Actually Toriyama did confirm that he wanted to keep the sleekness of the finial form, and not complicate it, so yeah it was meant to be like that.

[Cetra]

Well, recolor is not so much the problem but re-shape. Freeza looks extremely similiar except a few lines added or removed and some more musles/eye lines. But maybe that was meant.

Actually Toriyama did confirm that he wanted to keep the sleekness of the finial form, and not complicate it, so yeah it was meant to be like that.

By "meant" I did not mean the idea behind Freeza but the wording of you guys.

[Gog]

Well, recolor is not so much the problem but re-shape. Freeza looks extremely similiar except a few lines added or removed and some more musles/eye lines. But maybe that was meant.

Actually Toriyama did confirm that he wanted to keep the sleekness of the finial form, and not complicate it, so yeah it was meant to be like that.

By "meant" I did not mean the idea behind Freeza but the wording of you guys.

Huh, misunderstood you then... Sorry bout' that

[Cipher]

I love it when people are like:

"Who do zenkais work?"

"Why don't these powers line up?"

When this is a universe in which hundreds of thousands of animal-people just disappear between story arcs for no reason, even though the king is still a dog.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I love it when people are like:

"Who do zenkais work?"

"Why don't these powers line up?"

When this is a universe in which hundreds of thousands of animal-people just disappear between story arcs for no reason, even though the king is still a dog.

The obsessive nature of some of these fans has always struck me as odd, but especially those who only apply their critique to newer material.

[Soppa Saia People]

I love it when people are like:

"Who do zenkais work?"

"Why don't these powers line up?"

When this is a universe in which hundreds of thousands of animal-people just disappear between story arcs for no reason, even though the king is still a dog.

To quote Rocketman, "Vegeta ate them".
But yeah I see your point. Some people are way too literal with Dragon Ball, instead of just treating like the dumb kid series it is.

[Gog]

I love it when people are like:

"Who do zenkais work?"

"Why don't these powers line up?"

When this is a universe in which hundreds of thousands of animal-people just disappear between story arcs for no reason, even though the king is still a dog.

actually now that the topic has been raised up. Where did they go? Did God forget a whole entire race? Because I know Akira Toriyama is forgetful, he forgot Launch in her entirety, he forgot SSJ2 and he never gets the colors right in the original version. But a race?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I love it when people are like:

"Who do zenkais work?"

"Why don't these powers line up?"

When this is a universe in which hundreds of thousands of animal-people just disappear between story arcs for no reason, even though the king is still a dog.

actually now that the topic has been raised up. Where did they go? Did God forget a whole entire race?

A dog bit Zeno once, they haven't been seen in awhile.

[Gog]

I love it when people are like:

"Who do zenkais work?"

"Why don't these powers line up?"

When this is a universe in which hundreds of thousands of animal-people just disappear between story arcs for no reason, even though the king is still a dog.

actually now that the topic has been raised up. Where did they go? Did God forget a whole entire race?

A dog bit Zeno once, they haven't been seen in awhile.

No, the god above even the omni king, it's believed that he looks like this.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Its a rough sketch, I know, but I was rushed

[Jinzoningen MULE]

No, the god above even the omni king

I'm an Atoritheist

[Gog]

No, the god above even the omni king

I'm an Atoritheist

I'm... I don't get the joke.... Um...

[Kanassa]

No, the god above even the omni king

I'm an Atoritheist

I'm... I don't get the joke.... Um...

Atoriyama/Theist
Atoritihest
I'm guessing it's a pun or somthing on atheism.

[Gog]

I'm an Atoritheist

I'm... I don't get the joke.... Um...

Atoriyama/Theist
Atoritihest

How, did I not get that.... That's just embarrassing

[Nejishiki]

actually now that the topic has been raised up. Where did they go? Did God forget a whole entire race? Because I know Akira Toriyama is forgetful, he forgot Launch in her entirety, he forgot SSJ2 and he never gets the colors right in the original version. But a race?

Animal-type humans are endangered (according to Daizenshuu 7's 17% population figure), apparently. Toriyama briefly forgot about Lunch. He remembered her well enough to explain what she was doing since her last appearance & initially planned to include her in the Boo arc. He forgot what Super Saiyan 2 looked like but he doesn't imply ignorance of what it is. In the same conversation, he brings up & identifies Super Saiyan 3 himself so the basics are down, he only applied the wrong numbers. Considering he coined the numbered terms near the end of the original story, that's understandable. They weren't referenced as anything else but "Super Saiyan" until Super Saiyan 3 was introduced. Lastly, there are no "consistent, correct colors" in Toriyama's mind. He illustrates according to his current feelings. That's artistic sense at play instead of adhering to the anime staff's establishments (though he is particular about certain colors). He felt that Chi-Chi & Trunks' hair colors were appropriate during particular moments, after all.

According to Daizenshuu 7 (p. 43), 75% of earthlings are human-type, 17% are animal-type, 7% are monster-type, and 1% are half-breeds such as Gohan, Trunks, and apparently Tenshinhan.

I noticed that Lunch disappeared after Raditz came, what was she doing?
To tell you the truth, I totally forgot about her at one point. And then I remembered her after a while and I had to think of a reason why she disappeared. So I made it seem as if she was running after Tenshinhan.

The Truth Is!
Toriyama: No.17 during the Genki-Dama scene was actually Lunch in the rough draft.
Lunch went off chasing after Tenshinhan. Since Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu moved around from place to place as they trained, they really gave her the slip.
By the way, it’s said that after the Cell arc No.17 became an outstanding park ranger at a royal nature park, and built a happy family.

Do you write things down when you come up with those ideas and background stories?
Akira Toriyama: No, I don’t, that’s why I forget a lot. If I don’t forget those ideas, then I won’t need to come up with new ideas. Do you remember Super Saiyan 3?

Yes, I remember, Goku grows his hair long.
Akira Toriyama: That’s right, but actually I forgot about it and I thought that was Super Saiyan 2, even though I created those characters.

In reality, however, Akira Toriyama has stated that he simply chooses the colors to use in his illustrations as he is drawing them, and does not normally look back at his previous work to check for continuity issues.

How did you decide on the coloring of costumes, such as the main characters’ [clothes] and the Kamesen-school dōgi?
For the colors of the dōgi, the motif is naturally the color of the robes [worn by] Chinese monks, such as the Shaolin. The fact that it became red in the anime was always something I was a bit dissatisfied with.
The reason there are a lot of characters with strange colors, such as Piccolo Daimaō, Freeza, Cell, and Majin Boo, is simply because varying the colors made it easier to grasp their individual differences.

[Gog]

actually now that the topic has been raised up. Where did they go? Did God forget a whole entire race? Because I know Akira Toriyama is forgetful, he forgot Launch in her entirety, he forgot SSJ2 and he never gets the colors right in the original version. But a race?

Animal-type humans are endangered (according to Daizenshuu 7's 17% population figure), apparently. Toriyama briefly forgot about Lunch. He remembered her well enough to explain what she was doing since her last appearance & initially planned to include her in the Boo arc. He forgot what Super Saiyan 2 looked like but he doesn't imply ignorance of what it is. In the same conversation, he brings up & identifies Super Saiyan 3 himself so the basics are down, he only applied the wrong numbers. Considering he coined the numbered terms near the end of the original story, that's understandable. They weren't referenced as anything else but "Super Saiyan" until Super Saiyan 3 was introduced. Lastly, there are no "consistent, correct colors" in Toriyama's mind. He illustrates according to his current feelings. That's artistic sense at play instead of adhering to the anime staff's establishments (though he is particular about certain colors). He felt that Chi-Chi & Trunks' hair colors were appropriate during particular moments, after all.

According to Daizenshuu 7 (p. 43), 75% of earthlings are human-type, 17% are animal-type, 7% are monster-type, and 1% are half-breeds such as Gohan, Trunks, and apparently Tenshinhan.

I noticed that Lunch disappeared after Raditz came, what was she doing?
To tell you the truth, I totally forgot about her at one point. And then I remembered her after a while and I had to think of a reason why she disappeared. So I made it seem as if she was running after Tenshinhan.

The Truth Is!
Toriyama: No.17 during the Genki-Dama scene was actually Lunch in the rough draft.
Lunch went off chasing after Tenshinhan. Since Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu moved around from place to place as they trained, they really gave her the slip.
By the way, it’s said that after the Cell arc No.17 became an outstanding park ranger at a royal nature park, and built a happy family.

Do you write things down when you come up with those ideas and background stories?
Akira Toriyama: No, I don’t, that’s why I forget a lot. If I don’t forget those ideas, then I won’t need to come up with new ideas. Do you remember Super Saiyan 3?

Yes, I remember, Goku grows his hair long.
Akira Toriyama: That’s right, but actually I forgot about it and I thought that was Super Saiyan 2, even though I created those characters.

In reality, however, Akira Toriyama has stated that he simply chooses the colors to use in his illustrations as he is drawing them, and does not normally look back at his previous work to check for continuity issues.

How did you decide on the coloring of costumes, such as the main characters’ [clothes] and the Kamesen-school dōgi?
For the colors of the dōgi, the motif is naturally the color of the robes [worn by] Chinese monks, such as the Shaolin. The fact that it became red in the anime was always something I was a bit dissatisfied with.
The reason there are a lot of characters with strange colors, such as Piccolo Daimaō, Freeza, Cell, and Majin Boo, is simply because varying the colors made it easier to grasp their individual differences.

Ahh... Thanks for clearing that up Nejishiki! But I would have at least appreciated a animal type earthling being drawn, but anyhoow, thanks for explaining that

[Pickle_Jar]

Hello! I'm a fan who's in her 30's. I got into DBZ in early 2000 and the nostalgic side of me is tickled green about Dragon Ball Super. I've been watching the subbed version on kissanime.

I couldn't figure out where to make my first post, so I decided to voice something I've had on my mind for more than a decade.

Chris Sabat's Piccolo voice bothers me. I got into DBZ via the Ocean dub early in 2000, and somewhere in the Freeza saga it wasn't Ocean anymore.

Chris Sabat's Piccolo sounds like a deeper version of his Vegeta. This is nothing against Sabat-- he's talented, and I think his Vegeta voice is suitable for the character. I'd say he and Brian Drummond are tied in my mind in terms of who's good at voicing Vegeta.

But his Piccolo...it doesn't work for me. I've given Sabat's Piccolo 10+ years, and I can't reconcile it. The voice and the character's (very green) face don't fit for me.

To me, Scott McNeil is Piccolo, hands-down. I miss Piccolo's deep, demonic growl and epic death metal power up screams that made me truly believe he was dangerous even as a "good guy".

Giving me Piccolo with somebody besides Scott McNeil voicing him is like trying to sell me the Michael Bay Transformers movies or Transformers: Prime with somebody other than Peter Cullen voicing Optimus Prime. Other actors have voiced the boss bot in other versions of Transformers and did great at it, there's something about the way Peter Cullen does it that makes you go "everything's fine here."

I feel like that with McNeil's version of Piccolo. Even now, to this day, I mentally play back an old Piccolo line when I'm scared or uncertain: "Don't worry, kid, I won't let anything happen to you. I promise." Nobody can deliver that line the way McNeil did.

Sorry for the ramble!

[jamiljamtheman]

It was honestly funny, but it still bugged me:

That fan translation of DBSuper's manga before the Viz ones, in which Beerus shouts about his "Fucking Pudding!"