"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Simere]

If Black needs to be revived from the brink of death, it doesn't sound like he was intentionally losing if he also didn't know that Zamasu was going to be there to save him.

Didn't get any context that made it less stupid for Goku to power down. Are we sure he did? I don't know my hairstyles/aura cues like some of you.

[Yedis]

This doesn't make much sense. So apparently Black was intentionally getting beaten to power up, sure didn't seem like it considering how he was freaking out, but I guess he's just a really great actor, I suppose I can buy that. The problem is his zenkais, how is he still able to get them when he has Goku's body, and Goku can no longer get them? Also, how was his Zenkai so massive that he went from getting thrashed by SSJ2 Vegeta to wrecking SSBlue Vegeta in the same form? The only larger Zenkai in the series was Goku's 90,000-3,000,000 Zenkai.

According to Herms Black can still get them because of the connection of his god mind and Saiyan body.

[Basako]

Ok, translations now.

Zamasu says he has been checking the five timelines and then that there is one more. This means, as Vegeta says, Beerus killing Zamasu has created the last. Plot hole alert!! Beerus killing Zamasu is the new timeline, it's already created, so Beerus killing Zamasu couldn't be the cause, it had to be when Trunks went there. But it's not, because when Gowasu checked the box there were five. I was thinking before the translations that the sixth would be the one Black brought, also for the position of the rings, two in the line of the white, but according to the exact words, that's not the case. By the way, where is Black's ring?

It looks quite arbitrary that sometimes timelines are created for interfering in timelines but other times not. And to match the number of rings with all what happened in the Cell arc, plus the ring about U12, plus this arc, it just doesn't work. Well, I look forward for more information, this arc isn't even done yet. I mean, if the end is like the anime, there is more messing about the timelines yet.

The zenkai boost is explained and Black says his divine mind with a saiyan body is making the differences. We have the rose hair too, I think we have to go with that, we won't get anything better.

Funny hearing Mai repeating the word rice cooker. Doesn't it ring the bell?

[mute_proxy]

So... if Trunks were to stab Black with the sword instead of Zamasu.. they'd be done with him? Only the immortal one gets the stabs lol

[DBZ Macky]

Thanks a lot for the translation Herms!
Was Black able to transform into Rose before he got beaten up badly by Vegeta?

[mute_proxy]

Thanks a lot for the translation Herms!
Was Black able to transform into Rose before he got beaten up badly by Vegeta?

No, most likely not, Zamasu was even surprised

[TheUltimateNinja]

He couldn't go Rose, he admitted in the last chapter. And Zamasu said getting beaten by Vegeta took him 1 step closer to achieving it.

Also, I still can't get over the fact that this is all supposed to fit in a 10x gap with the exception of Post Zenkai SSJ & SSRose Black. I guess that must have been before Toyotaro was told that SSJ2 & SSJ3 would still be used, that's the only way this makes sense.

[TheMikado]

Ok, translations now.

Zamasu says he has been checking the five timelines and then that there is one more. This means, as Vegeta says, Beerus killing Zamasu has created the last. Plot hole alert!! Beerus killing Zamasu is the new timeline, it's already created, so Beerus killing Zamasu couldn't be the cause, it had to be when Trunks went there. But it's not, because when Gowasu checked the box there were five. I was thinking before the translations that the sixth would be the one Black brought, also for the position of the rings, two in the line of the white, but according to the exact words, that's not the case. By the way, where is Black's ring?

It looks quite arbitrary that sometimes timelines are created for interfering in timelines but other times not. And to match the number of rings with all what happened in the Cell arc, plus the ring about U12, plus this arc, it just doesn't work. Well, I look forward for more information, this arc isn't even done yet. I mean, if the end is like the anime, there is more messing about the timelines yet.

The zenkai boost is explained and Black says his divine mind with a saiyan body is making the differences. We have the rose hair too, I think we have to go with that, we won't get anything better.

Funny hearing Mai repeating the word rice cooker. Doesn't it ring the bell?

I'm not understanding the plot hole.

Trunks goes back in time, no ring is created yet because he didn't change history yet so there are only 5 rings when they check.

Tells Beerus and Zamasu is killed creating a new timeline because Zamasu is not supposed to be killed. This creates ring 6. Trunks travel into the past doesn't cause cause the split but the actions he actually takes are the causes. The timeline doesn't actually split until the action in the past actually happens.

[HeroR]

After reading the translation, it wasn't in Black's plan to get his butt whipped by Vegeta, although he was hoping Future Zamasu would save him once he took enough damaged. So the breakdown was real and it doesn't seem he job on purpose. So the scaling issues from last chapter still exists. I also hate the become smug again attitude characters take after getting their butts handed to them.

I will say that Future Zamasu comes off better since he doesn't just rely on being an immortal and show other abilities. He comes off as more competent than Black, which is revered from the anime.

Also, how does Goku know the story of King Piccolo? He was never told this story in the manga and I can't see him asking about it.

[Zamasu55]

Ssj2 Trunks landed more hits on SsjR Black than SsjB Vegeta did.
This was worse than the anime, where at least Trunks only fought Zamasu.

[TheMikado]

After reading the translation, it wasn't in Black's plan to get his butt whipped by Vegeta, although he was hoping Future Zamasu would save him once he took enough damaged. So the breakdown was real and it doesn't seem he job on purpose. So the scaling issues from last chapter still exists. I also hate the become smug again attitude characters take after getting their butts handed to them.

I will say that Future Zamasu comes off better since he doesn't just rely on being an immortal and show other abilities. He comes off as more competent than Black, which is revered from the anime.

Also, how does Goku know the story of King Piccolo? He was never told this story in the manga and I can't see him asking about it.

It seems like Vegeta was kicking his butt more than he expected and he may have miscalculated, who knows it's Relatively minor in the larger context. As far as Goku and King Piccolo I'm guessing in the several years of all this he would have heard stories. I mean he did casually hang out at Roshis all the time.

[TheMikado]

Ssj2 Trunks landed more hits on SsjR Black than SsjB Vegeta did.
This was worse than the anime, where at least Trunks only fought Zamasu.

Except that's not true...

[TheUltimateNinja]

Super has a really bad history with the words 10 percent. With Beerus using nearly 10% of his power against Rageta and SSJ Goku being as strong as 10% of SSBlue Vegeta, I get PTSD every time I hear 10% or anything similar like 1/10th.

[Lord Beerus]

So from what I've gathered the manga has also kept the huge plot hole of Beerus destroying Zamasu being the reason for the split in the timeline and Goku Black becoming a walking paradox. That's just... wonderful. It was bullshit in the anime and it's bullshit in the manga. Sad thing about all of this is that this plot point most likely came from Toriyama's plot outline for the arc considering it appears in both mediums. So it all really comes down to him fucking everything up.

[Will]

So from what I've gathered the manga has also kept the huge plot hole of Beerus destroying Zamasu being the reason for the split in the timeline and Goku Black becoming a walking paradox. That's just... wonderful. It was bullshit in the anime and it's bullshit in the manga. Sad thing about all of this is that this plot point most likely came from Toriyama's plot outline for the arc considering it appears in both mediums. So it all really comes down to him fucking everything up.

It's because of Trunks and Beerus.
"It is split into several timelines, due to Future Trunks coming to Goku's history" from the chart
"The main history is linked to Future Trunks's history. But because Beerus destroyed Zamasu, the main history is reorganized, splitting in two" from the chart
Black timeline was Goku's timeline, they were one timeline but then Trunks came back to the past and warn Beerus who killed Zamasu, which result in the main/Goku history being reorganized, being split in two timeline, the main history and Black timeline.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0L2CnqUsAA ... &name=orig : toei chart translated by Herms.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I guess the Universe Survival arc in the manga will begin with Chapter 23 on April. I predict that Chapter 21 will have Goku & Vegeta getting prepared in the past, return to the future, and fight back against Black & Zamasu, forcing them to merge with the Potara earrings, and ending the chapter with the introduction of Merged Zamasu, and Chapter 22 will be the big finale.

[LightBing]

After looking at both this chapter and the previous one, I think the following is going own:

- SSJ Black was stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta.
He was doing the same thing he did with Trunks, use him for zenkais. Black only lost his composure after Vegeta went Blue and start spouting his "humans are inferior, Gods are the best, yadayadayada." Also from a power-scaling perspective, Base Black was already stronger than a SSJ3 level and we see that after his upgrade SSJ Black is enough for Blue. Trunks says Black is even stronger than last time, hammering down how strong Black is.
So Black was planning to milk Vegeta for zenkais but Blue ruined his plan and he was really going to die.

- Vegeta's SSJ2 is intended to be what he showed against Beerus.
This is the exact same thing as SSJG. We assumed it was gone but there wasn't a single piece of evidence to prove it.
Toyotarõ in the fight clearly portrays SSJ2 Vegeta as stronger than Trunks. Vegeta himself comments how Trunks at his level is no match for Black and Trunks like I said before says Black is even stronger.
I honestly doubt that Toyotarõ would make such a blunder in a topic as straightforward as this, while giving power comparisons from the characters during the fight, when he's been trying his best to apply logic to everything.

About the above, Toyotarõ assumed we all knew SSJ2 Vegeta was that strong. That's his failure, he wasn't clear enough which lead to this confusion. While the power-scale remains intact, his writing wasn't good.
That's it for power talk.

One aspects of the chapter I enjoyed was the use of brains. The character saw themselves at a disadvantage and predicted Black's and Zamasu's next step to escape. Taiyoken is the classic escape technique in Dragon Ball, seeing it again made me really happy.

[MagmonKai]

I guess the Universe Survival arc in the manga will begin with Chapter 23 on April. I predict that Chapter 21 will have Goku & Vegeta getting prepared in the past, return to the future, and fight back against Black & Zamasu, forcing them to merge with the Potara earrings, and ending the chapter with the introduction of Merged Zamasu, and Chapter 22 will be the big finale.

I thought the manga was supposed to get ahead of the anime?

[The gr]

Man the fandom is so ignorant they said trunks learning the solar flare is an asspull like the genkidama that a stupid arguement because first krillin stated that an easy technique to learn and second trunks saw cell using it so the genkidama asspull is way worse

I guess the Universe Survival arc in the manga will begin with Chapter 23 on April. I predict that Chapter 21 will have Goku & Vegeta getting prepared in the past, return to the future, and fight back against Black & Zamasu, forcing them to merge with the Potara earrings, and ending the chapter with the introduction of Merged Zamasu, and Chapter 22 will be the big finale.

I thought the manga was supposed to get ahead of the anime?

the manga is already ahead of the anime because he drawing the universal survival arc and passing his storyboard to toei to animate it that what I heard

[Lord Beerus]

I guess the Universe Survival arc in the manga will begin with Chapter 23 on April. I predict that Chapter 21 will have Goku & Vegeta getting prepared in the past, return to the future, and fight back against Black & Zamasu, forcing them to merge with the Potara earrings, and ending the chapter with the introduction of Merged Zamasu, and Chapter 22 will be the big finale.

I thought the manga was supposed to get ahead of the anime?

the manga is already ahead of the anime because he drawing the universal survival arc and passing his storyboard to toei to animate it that what I heard

That's never been the case before. So I don't know where you heard that rumour from.