SSBlue or SS with God Essence

[ChiefWamsutta]

I took a look at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrCihI4n24w

I wanted to hear people's thoughts. Wouldn't SSBlue BE Super Saiyan with God Essence?

Or are they two separate things and SS2 With God Essence, SS3 With God Essence are things as well?

[Gog]

That's the only thing that it could be.What else is their? It also doesn't help that nobody has explained this

[ChiefWamsutta]

I think the giant One-Base Theory vs. Two-Base Theory ultimately boils down to one simple thing:

Whether Goku absorbed SSGod power into just his Super Saiyan form, or all his forms.

[Nejishiki]

Super Saiyan Blue is Super Saiyan using Super Saiyan God's power. Battle of Gods seems to indicate that Goku's normal Super Saiyan was empowered from his experience. Dragon Ball Super's anime continuity alters the implications of his Super Saiyan enhancement. It doesn't have a divine presence since his friends can sense him in that state. That remains consistent in all three sources (well, barring the manga continuity of Battle of Gods but it applies to later story arcs).

Let's just say he "leveled up" his normal Super Saiyan while Super Saiyan God itself (both ritual & invented method) is considered "another world" from Goku's old standards (again, barring the manga continuity since it doesn't incorporate the absorption of Super Saiyan God). Super Saiyan remains an amplification of Goku's normal state so I think it's reasonable to state he's strengthened overall. I'd go as far to speculate his normal Super Saiyan walls have almost bled into each other because the only significant boost of strength he can achieve derives from the incomparable Super Saiyan Blue.

[Grimlock]

I think the giant One-Base Theory vs. Two-Base Theory ultimately boils down to one simple thing:

Whether Goku absorbed SSGod power into just his Super Saiyan form, or all his forms.

He absorbed into his body, and returned to base form when Super Saiyan God's time out. So I think it's pretty obvious he can use a power he absorbed, a power that it's his very own, in any circunstances. If he can use it in Super Saiyan, why wouldn't be able to use in base form?

[ryan s]

all i know is Base>SSG without God ki so SSGSS has to just be the SSG and SSJ stacked

[Saturnine]

A gold-haired SSj is impossible with god ki.

Goku said this in very clear words. A SSj Blue is what happens when a Saian with the power of a Super Saiyan God further transforms into a Super Saiyan.

God-empowered SSj that Goku displayed initially, I belive, was not much different from if Goku had just been in base, it was just to let him feel he's going all out. SSj Blue is way more powerful, as it lets you further amplify that god ki by means of Super Saiyan.

Allowing regular SSj coexist with SSj Blue is in general bad writing and probably motivated by fanservice. But that's what has led us to think of two bases.

Clearly, regular SSj instances which have happened after the God transition, have not been portrayed to be at the same level of performance as say, base Goku as he was against Freeza. Toyotaro in his manga is the only one that has cleaned this issue up by reintroducing the original SSj God. The anime seems to have forgotten Saiyan beyond God too, because going SSj from there means you'll be a SSj Blue, and the anime shows the regular SSj forms again, which leads us to infer that the base state in those cases is not God-empowered.

[ChiefWamsutta]

I was speaking to someone who was under the impression that SS1 < SS2 < SS3 < SSGod < SS1 with God Essence < SS2 with God Essence < SS3 with God Essence < SSBlue

I tried to explain the idea that only Goku's Base and SS forms were trained.

SS1 < SS2 < SS3 < SSGod = SSGod without God Ki (Yellow SS form he loses) < SSBlue

That's it. I don't believe there is anymore. He said that the Universe 10 SS2 Goku vs. Present Zamasu fight had Goku using power far greater than SSGod against Present Zamasu. Do you all believe that could be true?

[Perfectionist-Cell]

I was speaking to someone who was under the impression that SS1 < SS2 < SS3 < SSGod < SS1 with God Essence < SS2 with God Essence < SS3 with God Essence < SSBlue

I tried to explain the idea that only Goku's Base and SS forms were trained.

SS1 < SS2 < SS3 < SSGod = SSGod without God Ki (Yellow SS form he loses) < SSBlue

That's it. I don't believe there is anymore. He said that the Universe 10 SS2 Goku vs. Present Zamasu fight had Goku using power far greater than SSGod against Present Zamasu. Do you all believe that could be true?

I don't believe Goku was. His Ssj2 was simply stronger due to all the training he has done. It has only been 6 years for Goku in DBS anyway (3 years in the HTC and 3 years training with Whis i believe). Gokus ssj2 would be stronger simply because of that. How strong is his ssj2 is a question i want to know.

[Nejishiki]

Goku & Vegeta using their normal Super Saiyan means they're controlling the level of strength they wish to use (& level of control extends to their normal state, too). It paints a picture of how able their opponents are if they don't need to use Super Saiyan Blue. In general, characters are always managing how much ki is used. Continuously going all-out to exhaustion is a rare practice. Goku was superior to Zamasu primarily though hand-to-hand combat. I wouldn't say he was sparring at his "best" from that. "Saiyan Beyond God" is only used in Dragon Ball Heroes anyway. It's not really established in Toriyama's films nor the anime & manga continuities so one shouldn't say anyone "ignored it".

[ekrolo2]

Goku & Vegeta using their normal Super Saiyan means they're controlling the level of strength they wish to use (& level of control extends to their normal state, too). It paints a picture of how able their opponents are if they don't need to use Super Saiyan Blue. In general, characters are always managing how much ki is used. Continuously going all-out to exhaustion is a rare practice. Goku was superior to Zamasu primarily though hand-to-hand combat. I wouldn't say he was sparring at his "best" from that. "Saiyan Beyond God" is only used in Dragon Ball Heroes anyway. It's not really established in Toriyama's films nor the anime & manga continuities so one shouldn't say anyone "ignored it".

It only exists in that Goku & Vegeta's Base forms are powered up in the movie and the show (until the later retconned that out) but the term Saiyan Beyond God is just a video game thing. There's no in universe distinction between Goku's "old" Base and the "new one".