"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[KidGokuDB]

What does that have to do with anything? What you're suggesting would have been out of character for either version of Goku Black. He doesn't want the power given to him, he's a Saiyan, he earns the power himself. The only real difference is that, rather than weird insta-zenkais of questionable continuity, Immortal Zamasu just heals him whenever he needs in this version.

So you mean to tell me it would be out of character for a guy who wished to have Goku's body and stole it......wish for full control of it in his own way? I can't say I agree with you.

[Gig]

Just read chapter 20. I liked it.

My thoughts inside the box:
[spoiler]I liked Zamasu using telekinesis, and the use of tayoken.

I like that Black's Zenkai still depends from being healed (by his other self): in the anime, he just recovered shortly (getting stronger) with no apparent reason or explanation, one of the main issues of the arc there.

But I'm not sure about the fact they said Goku and Vegeta apparently already pushed their bodies to the limit so Zenkai does not work anymore for them: while trying to be an explaination, it makes a bit strange that Black is capable of continuing using Zenkai even past that limit...

They did not mention setting an autopilot for the time machine, so it looks that Goku is driving it, which would be of course quite odd (he's not a genius and they did not have the time to teach to him).[/spoiler]

[LuckyCat]

They did not mention setting an autopilot for the time machine, so it looks that Goku is driving it, which would be of course quite odd (he's not a genius and they did not have the time to teach to him).

It's implied that it's really easy to operate the time machine, though. Cell only had to press a button and it took him to the past. Let's suppose that Trunks already had the machine prepped for a return trip since Goku and Vegeta would need to go home in any event. All Goku really needs to do is drive (which we know he can do) and press a button.

[HeroR]

They did not mention setting an autopilot for the time machine, so it looks that Goku is driving it, which would be of course quite odd (he's not a genius and they did not have the time to teach to him).

It's implied that it's really easy to operate the time machine, though. Cell only had to press a button and it took him to the past. Let's suppose that Trunks already had the machine prepped for a return trip since Goku and Vegeta would need to go home in any event. All Goku really needs to do is drive (which we know he can do) and press a button.

Cell was also created a by a super genius' computer so what he may call easy may not be for a layman person. Like for me, working a computer is easy, but my mom can barely work an iPad to check her emails. In the anime, Bulma makes it a point to say that neither Goku nor Vegeta knows how to work the Time Machine.

[LuckyCat]

They did not mention setting an autopilot for the time machine, so it looks that Goku is driving it, which would be of course quite odd (he's not a genius and they did not have the time to teach to him).

It's implied that it's really easy to operate the time machine, though. Cell only had to press a button and it took him to the past. Let's suppose that Trunks already had the machine prepped for a return trip since Goku and Vegeta would need to go home in any event. All Goku really needs to do is drive (which we know he can do) and press a button.

Cell was also created a by a super genius' computer so what he may call easy may not be for a layman person. Like for me, working a computer is easy, but my mom can barely work an iPad to check her emails. In the anime, Bulma makes it a point to say that neither Goku nor Vegeta knows how to work the Time Machine.

Sure, Cell was created by a genius cyberneticist, but assuming that Dr. Gero knows how a time machine works because he created cyborgs is a huge leap in logic, and that's assuming Dr. Gero gave Cell some scientific prowess, which is unclear. As for Goku not knowing how to drive it according to the anime, I may need to rewatch that scene, but at least Toyotaro isn't being inconsistent with Toriyama's manga per se.

[Gig]

I have to clarify: also I assume that Trunks just pre-set the time machine... it's just that the image of Goku at the commands looked a bit strange to me (a plane/time machine is not the same as a tractor), although he probably isn't actually using the commands, or is just pushing a lever forward or pressing a button.
However, that's just a small thing I noticed, there is no need for long discussions about it...

[Kishido]

As always I ask myself why they don't simply kill people after using Taiyoken... Black was completely open

[Ki Breaker]

As always I ask myself why they don't simply kill people after using Taiyoken... Black was completely open

Once done, people would start to ask why don't they do that again and again in every fight then they will have to come up with a way to counter taiyoken, which would leave the love completely useless in the future.. rather not have that move being whipped out all the time fot t to lose significance..
Vegettos time limit is a good example

[HeroR]

Sure, Cell was created by a genius cyberneticist, but assuming that Dr. Gero knows how a time machine works because he created cyborgs is a huge leap in logic, and that's assuming Dr. Gero gave Cell some scientific prowess, which is unclear. As for Goku not knowing how to drive it according to the anime, I may need to rewatch that scene, but at least Toyotaro isn't being inconsistent with Toriyama's manga per se.

Since he was born from a computer, Cell should have higher than average intelligence and Goku isn't tech savvy, hence my computer and iPad example. It isn't inconsistent, but it's odd that Goku who has never been good with technology being able to drive a time machine. You did the spaceship to Namek, but all Goku had to do was pressed a button and Dr. Brief explained everything to him before hand.

We also have strange stuff like Goku knowing the story of King Piccolo and the Evil Containment Wave, despite never being told that story at any point in the manga and there isn't a moment where I can see Goku asking about it.

As always I ask myself why they don't simply kill people after using Taiyoken... Black was completely open

Once done, people would start to ask why don't they do that again and again in every fight then they will have to come up with a way to counter taiyoken, which would leave the love completely useless in the future.. rather not have that move being whipped out all the time fot t to lose significance..
Vegettos time limit is a good example

Just because a person is blind doesn't mean they're defenseless.

[Ki Breaker]

Just because a person is blind doesn't mean they're defenseless.

By that logic taiyoken shouldn't even work, if the enemy knows what's going on around his surroundings he will just feel others out and puch them anyways..

Losing sight at least puts the person at a great disadvantage when others are trying to kill him

[HeroR]

Just because a person is blind doesn't mean they're defenseless.

By that logic taiyoken shouldn't even work, if the enemy knows what's going on around his surroundings he will just feel others out and puch them anyways..

Losing sight at least puts the person at a great disadvantage when others are trying to kill him

The Solar Flare works by giving the user an extreme dose of light that causing a lot of pain and blinds. Even then, it doesn't mean the enemy lowers their guard so much that a laser can pierced them.

[Nejishiki]

So you mean to tell me it would be out of character for a guy who wished to have Goku's body and stole it......wish for full control of it in his own way? I can't say I agree with you.

It's out-of-opportunity rather than out-of-character. In the recent chapter, Goku Black elaborated that he thought possessing Goku's body alone would grant him his strength. It took experience to determine he was wrong about that (going so far to lament he couldn't even go Super Saiyan at first). The destruction of the Super Dragon Balls prevented him from creating additional wishes. If anything, you could say he lacked foresight in one area of his "perfect" plan!

As always I ask myself why they don't simply kill people after using Taiyoken... Black was completely open

It's extremely unlikely for Future Trunks to kill Goku Black & incapacitate Future Zamasu in a short span of time. Supposing he gets a good hit, Future Trunks will be open with a nearly dying Goku & Vegeta in the background. There's a reason he ran away as minor victories wouldn't be worth the effort. He properly accessed that it was a battle he needed to retreat for their long-term survival.

[SansrivaaL]

Goku: You're nothing compared to Black.... Sorry, but I'm gonna level you.
Fcking savage

[HeroR]

So you mean to tell me it would be out of character for a guy who wished to have Goku's body and stole it......wish for full control of it in his own way? I can't say I agree with you.

It's out-of-opportunity rather than out-of-character. In the recent chapter, Goku Black elaborated that he thought possessing Goku's body alone would grant him his strength. It took experience to determine he was wrong about that (going so far to lament he couldn't even go Super Saiyan at first). The destruction of the Super Dragon Balls prevented him from creating additional wishes. If anything, you could say he lacked foresight in one area of his "perfect" plan!

As always I ask myself why they don't simply kill people after using Taiyoken... Black was completely open

It's extremely unlikely for Future Trunks to kill Goku Black & incapacitate Future Zamasu in a short span of time. Supposing he gets a good hit, Future Trunks will be open with a nearly dying Goku & Vegeta in the background. There's a reason he ran away as minor victories wouldn't be worth the effort. He properly accessed that it was a battle he needed to retreat for their long-term survival.

He could have used the Super Dragon Balls in another timeline. That's what he basically did to give Future Zamasu immortality.

[Nejishiki]

Sure. He's already brandishing Super Saiyan Rosé at this point so the entire scenario is a bit moot, in "real time". He was strong enough to exterminate Future Trunks' era & gained his dormant power through Future Trunks for about a year anyway. Funnily enough, it's Future Trunks' interference that helps him out exponentially. I can only imagine what the godly duo would do if they visited Goku & Vegeta in their era after they were done with the current era cleansing.

[HeroR]

Sure. He's already brandishing Super Saiyan Rosé at this point so the entire scenario is a bit moot, in "real time". He was strong enough to exterminate Future Trunks' era & gained his dormant power through Future Trunks for about a year anyway. Funnily enough, it's Future Trunks' interference that helps him out exponentially. I can only imagine what the godly duo would do if they visited Goku & Vegeta in their era after they were done with the current era cleansing.

Only thanks to Future Dabura killing all of U7's Supreme Kais' according to him. So Black got lucky. And he was still an idiot for not using the Super Dragon Balls again to sync his body and instead kept an active threat alive, which would have killed him if Future Zamasu didn't save his butt.

Black in the manga comes off as extremely shortsighted.

[Nejishiki]

He praised Future Trunks' Boo arc for dealing with Kaioshin for him, yes. It's not as if he was incapable of doing it himself though, it's merely convenient. The revelation that he needed to adapt new cells to his body wasn't born until after his wishes were granted. In his perspective, he was already granted Goku's strength. When he discovers the miscalculation, he has a prime Saiyan to assist him. His actions aren't unreasonable through his mind since it's convenient, once again. Vegeta nearly killing him is a mixture of his own fault for underestimating an unfamiliar era & not planning to deal with him quite yet. From the beginning, he believed he had all of the power, found out he didn't, & used easy methods for himself along the way as he executed Zero Humans world-by-world at a time. If he hadn't gained Super Saiyan Rosé for himself, maybe he would use the Super Dragon Balls again. It was never an urgent task for Goku Black until before he immediately accomplished the milestone.

[HeroR]

He praised Future Trunks' Boo arc for dealing with Kaioshin for him, yes. It's not as if he was incapable of doing it himself though, it's merely convenient. The revelation that he needed to adapt new cells to his body wasn't born until after his wishes were granted. In his perspective, he was already granted Goku's strength. When he discovers the miscalculation, he has a prime Saiyan to assist him. His actions aren't unreasonable through his mind since it's convenient, once again. Vegeta nearly killing him is a mixture of his own fault for underestimating an unfamiliar era & not planning to deal with him quite yet. From the beginning, he believed he had all of the power, found out he didn't, & used easy methods for himself along the way as he executed Zero Humans world-by-world at a time. If he hadn't gained Super Saiyan Rosé for himself, maybe he would use the Super Dragon Balls again. It was never an urgent task for Goku Black until before he immediately accomplished the milestone.

Then why was he looking for a timeline without Beerus if he could kill all the Supreme Kais even in his unfamiliar body?

And that still doesn't explain why he didn't used the Super Dragon Balls since the Zero Mortal Plan would have gone faster instead of messing with Trunks.

[Gig]

And that still doesn't explain why he didn't used the Super Dragon Balls since the Zero Mortal Plan would have gone faster instead of messing with Trunks.

You made me think about that image someone posted months ago with Black just after getting Goku's body saying "I'm finally one step closer to eradicate all mortals!", then Super Shenron asks "Why didn't you just wish for that?" and Black facepalms.

[HeroR]

And that still doesn't explain why he didn't used the Super Dragon Balls since the Zero Mortal Plan would have gone faster instead of messing with Trunks.

You made me think about that image someone posted months ago with Black just after getting Goku's body saying "I'm finally one step closer to eradicate all mortals!", then Super Shenron asks "Why didn't you just wish for that?" and Black facepalms.

In that case, Black wanted to be 'justice'. He killed the Earthlings slowly to punished and to torment them. Him not asking the dragon to sync his body in the manga is weird, especially since that's why he ran from his original timeline. In the anime, it made some sense since Black was always shown as powerful and growing, and he loves fighting.

But I did find that comic funny.