Dragonball franchise is getting too complicated for its own good

[Gog]

Wow this thread is just terrible, the stuff I'm reading is just plain arrogant and dumb.

How so? Would like to hear your opinions on this, if you mind of course.

[Kamiccolo9]

If a series this densely packed with content ranges from unmemorable to boring in your eyes, then that means that the series isn't for you and you move onto something you might actually enjoy instead. Nobody's locking you in a cell and forcing you to consume nothing but Dragon Ball related media.

The series isn't boring, its actually incredibly memorable, and a fun time, and I thoroughly enjoy it. I'm sorry that I didn't write it up properly, and express my views for what they really are. But I actually enjoy this franchise, I enjoy Dragon Ball in its entirety with its high's and its low, lows. Your right nobody is, and I'm into plenty other media, but Dragon ball is literally my Child Hood.

You are 14. You are a child.

[Zephyr]

Your right nobody is, and I'm into plenty other media, but Dragon ball is literally my Child Hood.

Preaching to the choir there, but that by itself isn't really a good reason.

The reason why I want new content is that I've seen the same stuff a thousand million billion times before.

If you've explored that incredibly dense amount of content that often, then you're not spending enough time exploring other stuff. You're 14 years old (and that's not a personal jab, that's more pointing out how little time you've had to explore). There's not a snowball's chance in hell that you consumed so much other media that revisiting Dragon Ball again is your only option.

[Kunzait_83]

Guys. I was kidding. It was a joke. Like over-exaggeration, not meant to be taken literal. It was meant to be funny. Haha? No?

Oy. How am I the one on the high horse when its some of you that are evidently incapable of laughing a little at yourselves? As far as digs go, that was EXCEEDINGLY mild and lightweight.

Calm the hell down. OBVIOUSLY I don't think people here LITERALLY need to go to rehab for being too into a fucking anime series. I shouldn't even have to outline or explain why this shouldn't be taken at face value.

[ABED]

Your right nobody is, and I'm into plenty other media, but Dragon ball is literally my Child Hood.

Preaching to the choir there, but that by itself isn't really a good reason.

The reason why I want new content is that I've seen the same stuff a thousand million billion times before.

If you've explored that incredibly dense amount of content that often, then you're not spending enough time exploring other stuff. You're 14 years old (and that's not a personal jab, that's more pointing out how little time you've had to explore). There's not a snowball's chance in hell that you consumed so much other media that revisiting Dragon Ball again is your only option.

This is not coming off like someone who genuinely cares about someone expanding their horizons and more like some art snob. You constantly make these sort of points, but I don't think it comes off as helpful advice and more like "listen to how cultured I am." Perhaps you don't mean it that way, but that's how I'm reading it.

Oy. How am I the one on the high horse when its some of you that are evidently incapable of laughing a little at yourselves? As far as digs go, that was EXCEEDINGLY mild and lightweight.

Calm the hell down. OBVIOUSLY I don't think people here LITERALLY need to go to rehab for being too into a fucking anime series. I shouldn't even have to outline or explain why this shouldn't be taken at face value.

That didn't come off as a joke. And I am capable of figuring out that you didn't literally mean someone should go to rehab. Did you think that was the issue?

[SaiyanGod117]

Wow this thread is just terrible, the stuff I'm reading is just plain arrogant and dumb.

How so? Would like to hear your opinions on this, if you mind of course.

It's just a bunch of people rationalizing and generalizing.

[Gog]

Preaching to the choir there, but that by itself isn't really a good reason.

I know it isn't a good enough reason, but I'm just stating it.

If you've explored that incredibly dense amount of content that often, then you're not spending enough time exploring other stuff. You're 14 years old (and that's not a personal jab, that's more pointing out how little time you've had to explore). There's not a snowball's chance in hell that you consumed so much other media that revisiting Dragon Ball again is your only option.

I have explored a lot of other content, I'm anti social as fuck so I have fuck all friends, so that gives me a lot of time, I'm a fan of Marvel, DC, Nintendo, Steam. Mine-craft, Jojo's bizarre adventure, star wars. Disney. Nearly all of Terry Practhet's disc world novels, potentially a few anime. Nearly every book underneath the sun. And I still prefer this franchise for some reason. I revisit Dragon ball, because I like it the most. And I just want to see new content of it. That's. It.

[Doctor.]

Guys. I was kidding. It was a joke. Like over-exaggeration, not meant to be taken literal. It was meant to be funny. Haha? No?

Oy. How am I the one on the high horse when its some of you that are evidently incapable of laughing a little at yourselves? As far as digs go, that was EXCEEDINGLY mild and lightweight.

Calm the hell down. OBVIOUSLY I don't think people here LITERALLY need to go to rehab for being too into a fucking anime series. I shouldn't even have to outline or explain why this shouldn't be taken at face value.

I'm aware it was a joke but you keep making the same point in this and other threads which can basically be summed up to "More Dragon Ball is bad because fans are obsessed?"

Why? Why are fans obsessed for wanting more of their favorite hobby? More Dragon Ball means more for old fans and more for new generations. If old fans don't like it, then they have the original 42 volume manga and the older content to rewatch and reread if they want to. This seems like it benefits every party, to me.

Why is this a problem to you? You still have the manga. Or does Super's mediocrity insult you so much that it reaches into your mind and taints what DB was all about for you? If that is the case, then perhaps the one who is a bit obsessed is you, not the fans who want something more of something they like.

I'm saying this as someone who thinks the series should have ended back in the Freeza arc.

[ABED]

In my experience if I get to the point where I'm tired of a series, even one I love, I take a break. Going back to the same thing over and over isn't psychologically healthy. Doing pretty much anything too often until it feels like an obligation isn't good. Even if it's something small, trying something new is always good. Even if you don't like it, it's healthy.

[Kunzait_83]

This is not coming off like someone who genuinely cares about someone expanding their horizons and more like some art snob. You constantly make these sort of points, but I don't think it comes off as helpful advice and more like "listen to how cultured I am." Perhaps you don't mean it that way, but that's how I'm reading it.

Fuck it, I'm riding a VERY fine line with Mike's rules here, but I'm going to TRY to be as constructive and soft-peddle about this as possible.

Nothing no on in this thread has come within even LIGHTYEARS of sounding mean spirited (I deliberately chose not to talk more about an issue raised where I DO have real feelings that can be considered in the realm of "mean spirited" precisely to keep things here civil). I've read your posts on here enough now where I've noticed this pattern with you time and again where you assume bad faith in people who very obviously and clearly don't mean any harm (I'm not just talking about myself here either, there's Zeph just now, who I know IS a good guy and would never condescend down to some random stranger, certainly not intentionally at any rate). Where you seem to come across as taking yourself absurdly seriously and are incapable of differentiating between "lighthearted friendly jab" and "serious insult to my intelligence".

Not only that, but time and time again, and thread after thread, you seem to come across as thuddingly, absurdly literal minded, incapable of grasping even the most obvious sarcasm or metaphor and so on and just taking everything said on this pedantic as all hell level of extreme over literalness.

So I have to ask, and I'm NOT at all asking this as some kind of veiled insult or anything like that. I'm genuinely sincerely curious ABED: are you by any chance somewhere on the Autism spectrum, at least as far as you've been made aware? If you are, its totally fine, and frankly it would go a long, long way to explain some of the... very odd behavior and manner of interpreting people's words and intentions that you seem to have.

I truly mean no offense in asking and I hope that doing so hasn't embarrassed you or hurt your feelings in some way. I've just been genuinely curious for awhile now, because I damn well know that neither Zeph nor I meant any harm to anyone.

[Doctor.]

In my experience if I get to the point where I'm tired of a series, even one I love, I take a break. Going back to the same thing over and over isn't psychologically healthy. Doing pretty much anything too often until it feels like an obligation isn't good. Even if it's something small, trying something new is always good. Even if you don't like it, it's healthy.

Sure, but I've never met ANYONE who only sticks to Dragon Ball and doesn't like anything else. I've never met anyone who doesn't have more than one interest. This whole "expand your horizons" propaganda that Zeph and Kunzait are trying to pull doesn't work because they're using a strawman as the root of their argument. The kind of fan they're describing doesn't exist.

[Zephyr]

I have explored a lot of other content, I'm anti social as fuck so I have fuck all friends, so that gives me a lot of time, I'm a fan of Marvel, DC, Nintendo, Steam. Mine-craft, Jojo's bizarre adventure, star wars. Disney. Nearly all of Terry Practhet's disc world novels, potentially a few anime. Nearly every book underneath the sun.

To be clear, I wasn't trying to suggest that you're some sort of "uncultured swine", or anything of the sort. It's fantastic that your interests are as broad as they are. I'm only saying that there's always more new stuff to go into.

And I still prefer this franchise for some reason. I revisit Dragon ball, because I like it the most. And I just want to see new content of it. That's. It.

And don't get me wrong, I empathize with you there fully. I'm not terribly "cultured" myself, and I have way more room to grow than I'm proud to admit at the age of 25 (so this image of some sort of art snob that someone's painting me as is hilariously off-base). Dragon Ball was a constant thread throughout my entire childhood, adolescence, and now my adulthood. I'm very fond of it, and I've always wanted to see more new content (and I'm enjoying Super, for what it is). My point though is that while I love Dragon Ball, and many others do, that affection itself isn't really a good enough to reason for Shueisha, Toei, and co. to keep it in this zombified state. They're certainly benefiting from it in a capitalist sense, and I'm certainly benefiting from it in a baser-emotional sense. But I don't think that these facts render this now assembly line of content anywhere near necessary.

[Kamiccolo9]

In my experience if I get to the point where I'm tired of a series, even one I love, I take a break. Going back to the same thing over and over isn't psychologically healthy. Doing pretty much anything too often until it feels like an obligation isn't good. Even if it's something small, trying something new is always good. Even if you don't like it, it's healthy.

Sure, but I've never met ANYONE who only sticks to Dragon Ball and doesn't like anything else. I've never met anyone who doesn't have more than one interest. This whole "expand your horizons" propaganda that Zeph and Kunzait are trying to pull because they're using a strawman as the root of their argument. The kind of fan they're describing doesn't exist.

They're not just talking about Dragon Ball. They are talking about children's media in general. And these people very much exist; the whole "90's Kid" stereotype is made up of these people.

[ABED]

Whether you think you aren't writing that way is pretty irrelevant. People's perceptions of you matter. You keep insisting that it's clear and obvious, but that's not the case. I've seen several instances where people have been rubbed the wrong way by the tone of your posts.


As to your point about me taking things so literal minded, that's completely untrue. I don't take things completely literal just like I didn't take your post in question literally. You inferred that on your own. I simply felt you were talking down to people because they haven't had the experiences you've had. For example, because they don't have the background of having read or watched wuxia.

it would go a long, long way to explain some of the... very odd behavior and manner of interpreting people's words and intentions that you seem to have.

Such as when? And don't bring up the previous post you made because it didn't happen. I'm pedantic in my own writing, generally speaking, but I honestly can't recall some time when I had an issue understanding someone because I was being overly literal on this forum.

They're not just talking about Dragon Ball. They are talking about children's media in general. And these people very much exist; the whole "90's Kid" stereotype is made up of these people.

In what way do they exist? Are you saying 90s kids who only watch cartoons and the shows they grew up with? I'm not following.

Back to the topic at hand, I get the point that Dragon Ball had previously been fairly simple, but something that takes the edge off is the home video releases are less convoluted these days.

[Doctor.]

They're not just talking about Dragon Ball. They are talking about children's media in general. And these people very much exist; the whole "90's Kid" stereotype is made up of these people.

I don't agree. In my experience, at least (and that's all the information any of us can use to form an argument: anecdotal evidence), people never generally stick with one interest. If they do, it's because they are casual fans who don't have a bigger interest in getting into the deeper side of that subject. You can say a Shonen fan should widen their horizons and check other stuff out, but what if their main interest isn't anime? What if their main interest is cinema and they're actually well-versed in the subject? What right does anyone have to try to push something on to them?

The "90s kids" are just people who look on the 90s with nostalgia. They don't base their entire life on "things from the 90s". If you come across someone who does, then sure, that person may be obsessed but they're gonna be an exception to the rule.

Plenty of people here don't have Dragon Ball as their main interest. I know you don't, for instance. Why would someone care about widening their horizons inside a genre that they don't particularly care much about?

[ABED]

Plenty of people here don't have Dragon Ball as their main interest. I know you don't, for instance. Why would someone care about widening their horizons inside a genre that they don't particularly care much about?

My suggestion to them would be to sample things in genres outside their preference. Dip their toes.

[Cipher]

I can't believe this went on for four pages.

To soften what Kunzait_83 was getting at a little bit, there really is no reason for more Dragon Ball story content to exist. It's a series very tied to, even reliant on, its execution under its original author, and has been completed satisfactorily for twenty years. And right now it very much is still just that core, forty-two volume story, with a handful of adaptations and ancillary media including two TV sequels (one contemporary to its original run, one done two decades later).

We aren't yet in full, overly complex, zombie-franchise mode yet, where tons of new stand-alone fiction is being thrown into its world, and I hope we don't get there, because it seems like a colossal waste of creative energy for something that doesn't need it.

I actually don't know if that's softer at all.

[Gog]

To be clear, I wasn't trying to suggest that you're some sort of "uncultured swine", or anything of the sort. It's fantastic that you're interests are as broad as they are. I'm only saying that there's always more new stuff to go into.

Oh well then, I thank you for specifying.

And don't get me wrong, I empathize with you there fully. I'm not terribly "cultured" myself (so this image of some sort of art snob that someone's painting me as is hilariously off-base). Dragon Ball was a constant thread throughout my entire childhood, adolescence, and now my adulthood. I'm very fond of it, and I've always wanted to see more new content (and I'm enjoying Super, for what it is). My point though is that while I love Dragon Ball, and many others do, that affection itself isn't really a good enough to reason for Shueisha, Toei, and co. to keep it in this zombified state. They're certainly benefiting from it in a capitalist sense, and I'm certainly benefiting from it in a baser-emotional sense. But I don't think that these facts render this now assembly line of content anywhere near necessary.

Huh I apologies for misrepresenting you then. That's my problem with Dragon Ball Super is that even though it is better than half of Dragon ball (Cell/Buu/Android) it just can be so much better. I want it to go past the time skip, I want the man working on the character designs to go away forever. And most of all Akira Toriyama needs to get rid of his slip dash, asspull writing, that he used in Dragon ball. The way he wrote dragon ball in this day and age would not be acceptable

[Soppa Saia People]

For comparison, I find a video game series like Madden NFL to be incredibly boring and dull. If they suddenly stopped making games, I would be fine with that. I wouldn't be clamoring for them to start making more, on the off chance that some of it might be less boring. I wouldn't care precisely because, upon realizing that Madden NFL isn't my cup of tea, I moved on and played games I liked instead.

I like Madden.

Plenty of people here don't have Dragon Ball as their main interest. I know you don't, for instance. Why would someone care about widening their horizons inside a genre that they don't particularly care much about?

My suggestion to them would be to sample things in genres outside their preference. Dip their toes.

That's good advice for most things I find.

[Zephyr]

And most of all Akira Toriyama needs to get rid of his slip dash, asspull writing, that he used in Dragon ball. The way he wrote dragon ball in this day and age would not be acceptable

On the contrary, I'd say that's one of the biggest things that these new stories are missing.

During the manga's original run, Toriyama was writing each chapter, week-by-week, with very little planning. The story grew organically off of the seat of his pants, and even he had sparse idea of where it was going. As a result, he would frequently write himself into these corners that he would have to spring himself from. I think that's part of what made Dragon Ball's story so unpredictable and entertaining.

With this new material, he's able to comfortably lay down what's going to happen in each given story, from beginning to end. He's able to plan it all, every step of the way. He doesn't force himself into corners, and as a result he doesn't have to think of creative solutions for escaping them. It's all very "safe". And I mean, I'm still enjoying it (new fucking Dragon Ball every week!), but it's definitely not the same.