GT or Super? Which one is the best?

[dbs fanboy]

That's a fool's question. Of course GT gave us something worse than Female Broly.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Huh, i actually thought that the Shadow dragons were really a great concept, what was wrong with them?

[TheMikado]

That's a fool's question. Of course GT gave us something worse than Female Broly.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Huh, i actually thought that the Shadow dragons were really a great concept, what was wrong with them?

It's just cool to hate GT that's all.

The idea of the Dragonballs themselves getting fed up from over/misuse and actually becoming their final enemy is brilliant.

[TheMikado]

GT, aside from the consequence-driven themes that TheMikado mentioned, was "Rehash, the series". DBS, while it does enjoy its gimmicks, at least has original ideas, which is why I enjoy Super more.

This is a new one. People usually praise GT for its unique concepts whilst criticizing DBS for the opposite. Why do you feel it's a rehash?

The first half of the first arc of GT was a clone of Dragon Ball's origin, the Pan/Goku dynamic was an odd twist on the Bulma/Goku dynamic from the beginning. Hell, there was an entire episode that was a copy of Oolong's debut. The second half of GT's Arc, while more narrative-centric, feels awfully similar to parts of the Red Ribbon Army. Dr. Myuu is Dr. Gero, Parapara Brothers are the Ginyu Force with the gag meter cranked up to 20. Machine Mutants are Androids, Baby's personality is basically Freeza's. Hell, there's a whole arc that's literally just fighting old villains. Even most of the Evil Dragons are less interesting attempts at creating old-styled DB villains.

Dragon Ball Super's originality are all cheap nostalgia pulls, they aren't trying to pretend to be original like GT. Even at that, a list of DBS's unoriginalities consist of Freeza coming back (even though the arc itself, while bare-bones, is original as far as previous DB plots go). We had Frost, which is still a Freeza rip, but an interesting take on him, at least. Other than that, all I can think of is Future Trunks as a character and Potara Fusion. Still too much for such a currently short series, but it's far better than GT in that respect.

People who think they like GT because of the interesting ideas don't remember GT.

I think that GT attempted to grab themes and appeals of the original Dragonball for its audience that only came in at Z as well as bring back some of the long time fans. It didn't work and its attempts to combine both Z and the original Dragonball manga left it feeling uneven. Especially as the first part had a very gag focused aspect to it that likely confused the Z only crowd. Like a lot of Dragonball the overarching themes are AWESOME and incredibly deep when viewed within the story. The show wasn't really sure what it wanted to be for a very long time, arguably right up until the end. I will also argue the color palette and 90's rock star looks did them no favors. I think the parallels you make are a little too liberal and don't give enough to the originality used. Having nice sub-plots was very Dragonball-esque and coming up will a decent variety of them in a show with only 60 odd episodes is a pretty decent achievement.

[Gog]

That's a fool's question. Of course GT gave us something worse than Female Broly.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Huh, i actually thought that the Shadow dragons were really a great concept, what was wrong with them?

It's just cool to hate GT that's all.

The idea of the Dragonballs themselves getting fed up from over/misuse and actually becoming their final enemy is brilliant.

Their designs are disgustingly bad, their personality's are bland and generic. Besides the idea of them, the shadow dragon's are failure of villains in every way, besides concept, which is the absolute bare minimum.

[Daimo-Rukiri]

The shadow dragon concept was a neat idea but it's execution is lacking... I liked the idea of consequences of using the dragon balls too much! It felt like a rush job, I remember reading where GT was supposed to be far longer but was tanking in the ratings and thus had to be cut short does that have anything to do with it? Probably, but who knows.

Supers awesome in it's own way, total fan service done just right.

[AnimeMaakuo]

DBGT is WAY better than Dragon Ball Super.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

DBGT is WAY better than Dragon Ball Super.

Why do you think so?

[sintzu]

DBGT is WAY better than Dragon Ball Super.

Why do you think so?

I'd like to know why as well, the Zamasu arc and what we know about the next arc have left GT in the dust.

[Cetra]

As far as I am concerned: GT = Beyond vol. 42 which I always wanted + Ending + a bunch of other reasons will always have it higher for me. I was so unsatisfied with vol 42's ending.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I'd definitely agree that GT, as an extension, works better than DBS despite having many mediocre elements. On the other hand, I think that Super stands on its own far better than GT, which matters more to me, especially since the EoZ wrapped everything up perfectly fine.

[AnimeMaakuo]

DBGT is WAY better than Dragon Ball Super.

Why do you think so?

I'd like to know why as well, the Zamasu arc and what we know about the next arc have left GT in the dust.

DB Super is the most idiotic crap I've ever seen next to watching Barney. It's laughable.

DBGT has better music, art, story, and it ended the anime as a whole. Anything after DBGT is irrelevant to me.

[Cetra]

GT has Izumi Sakai's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKHRQwCljlQ

Of course that one here is just the instrumental GT version. Too bad the opening was not Sakai-san's original version. May she rest in peace.

which perfectly reflects the future of Dragon Ball and the show's end for me as well as the feelings within the show and the ones' I have for Dragon Ball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNHBJ32k3EY

Saying "X is bad" doesn't count.

He has to obligation to justify his thoughts to a stranger which we all are here.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

DB Super is the most idiotic crap I've ever seen next to watching Barney. It's laughable.

DBGT has better music, art, story, and it ended the anime as a whole. Anything after DBGT is irrelevant to me.

Okay... Do you have any actual, substantive criticism? I don't care if you like it or not, but it's pretty dishonest to form an opinion without at least one particular reason. Saying "X is bad" doesn't count.

[sintzu]

DBGT has better music, art, story, and it ended the anime as a whole. Anything after DBGT is irrelevant to me.

I also like GT's art and music.

I think GT had good plot ideas but they were excuted very poorly compared to Super's which also have problems but not as many or as bad as GT's.

[Cipher]

I also like GT's art and music.

I think GT had good plot ideas but they were excuted very poorly compared to Super's which also have problems but not as many or as bad as GT's.

Super will always be the ultimate embodiment of the fandom's favorite "good ideas but poor execution" meme to me.

With GT, yeah, it feels like it misses some obvious routes, but by and large I'm content to watch the way it chooses to let things play out and vibe on its tone and atmosphere. I think it helps that certain sections, including the beginning of the Evil Dragons arc, are designed to be light and episodic. Would it be cool if they'd divvied that task up among the entire cast? Sure; but I'm not actively thinking about that while watching. Goku and Pan do well enough as a focal point.

With Super, I am actively, constantly thinking about the gulf between what its plots feel like they could be, and very nearly are, and the way they come out in terms of both presentation and episodic scriptwriting. It's frustrating. I feel like I'm having to constantly uncouple its ideas from the way they play out onscreen. "What could this have been like if Toriyama were actually handling the script?" "What could this have been like with proper animation and direction?" "What could this have been like if Goku and Vegeta's character arcs weren't locked in by the original ending?" "What could the trajectory of all this gods stuff be like if there were consistent writing?" So much stuff that's interesting in theory, or imagining under Toriyama's pen, but it just doesn't come across well on-screen. It has high highs, but it's rare that all the stars align. GT has high highs too, but I think it's more consistently presented and benefits greatly from being a relatively short epilogue.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I think that your lack of active critique while watching GT may come from misplaced nostalgia. As someone who didn't see GT until later, I definitely am thinking "Why the hell didn't they do X?!" or "X doesn't really make sense, why couldn't they have just done Y?", or "I could have done X better if I had both hands tied behind my back". Basically, the same things I think when I'm watching Super. However, I do understand your sentiment, because I have a hard time actively being critical of shows that I watched when I was younger.

[Cipher]

I think that you're lack of active critique while watching GT may come from misplaced nostalgia. As someone who didn't see GT until later, I definitely am thinking "Why the hell didn't they do X?!" or "X doesn't really make sense, why couldn't they have just done Y?", or "I could have done X better if I had both hands tied behind my back". Basically, the same things I think when I'm watching Super. However, I do understand your sentiment, because I have a hard time actively being critical of shows that I watched when I was younger.

This might be true. GT was a staple of the larger series by the time I got into it, and I do have nostalgia for it. It helps that it's so obviously set in its actual time period (the mid-'90s) too.

But that's something I'd give it credit for as a direction choice as well, so I'm not sure whether I'm willing to totally write that off as nostalgia. I like that Dragon Ball's epilogue suddenly sees real-world elements creeping in in all these subtle design elements. Intentional or not, it plays wonderfully with the ending and its decision to show an older, more settled cast. Very non-Toriyama, but interesting, and I think that being sort of thing being a consistent presence throughout the series has me a lot more willing to just go with its flow than I otherwise might be.

But yeah, I definitely have nostalgia for it, and new Dragon Ball material in general feels so superfluous that it's hard to imagine I'd wind up crediting anything with being better than GT.

[AnimeMaakuo]

DB Super is the most idiotic crap I've ever seen next to watching Barney. It's laughable.

DBGT has better music, art, story, and it ended the anime as a whole. Anything after DBGT is irrelevant to me.

Okay... Do you have any actual, substantive criticism? I don't care if you like it or not, but it's pretty dishonest to form an opinion without at least one particular reason. Saying "X is bad" doesn't count.

(WARNING: What you are about to see is controversial, and may be offensive to sensitive people. Viewer discretion is advised).

DB Super is irrelevant for the following reasons:

- The story is makes no fucking sense.

- The sound affects have changed and are now worse than before.

- There are more plot holes than the strains of hair on my head.

- The villains look like something out of a children's coloring book.

- The voice acting is bad.

- There's no direction.

- Too much "GOD FLUFF".

- Transformations like SSJGod, SSJGodSSJBlopper, SSJGRose, and soon "SSJGodHulkGreen" to match Gohan's outfit, look lame as hell.

- There's a FEMALE Broly.

- A clown for a "GOD".

- Repetitive character designs.

- Vegetto only lasting for 1 hour or less.

- SSJ Trunks defeating some rip-off villain from Yu-Gi-Oh, instead of "SUPER SAIYAN GOD SUPER SAIYAN BLOPPER VEGETTO".

- Evil Goku is called "Goku Black". I'm guessing black = evil. Wow, so scary.

- The animation is poor.

- It's starting to look like Pokémon trainers battling in some galactic arena to see who's the strongest "GOD".

In my honest opinion: The writers have lost their touch due to LSD, and ingesting too much Wolfsbane from the Ainu people of Japan.

If they had any shred of dignity left, they would terminate this disastrous show indefinitely and make something worthwhile.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

That's all really vague. I guess that's fine, but it's not very useful for a conversation.

[Cipher]

- Evil Goku is called "Goku Black". I'm guessing black = evil. Wow, so scary.

They actually lampshade that in the series.

The writers have lost their touch due to LSD and ingesting too much Wolfsbane from the Ainu people of Japan.

What the fuck?