The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[DanielSSJ]

Android 17 vs SS Goten

Let's see here... Well, during the tournament, No. 18 was scared spitless by a heavily suppressed blast from Trunks, implying he's at least as powerful, if not more so, than her. Goten is only a smidge weaker than Trunks and No. 17 is only a smidge stronger than No. 18, so odds are that Goten is stronger than No. 17 by a noticeable amount.
On the other hand, the kids are probably not that much stronger than No. 18 if Mighty Mask's costume was restrictive enough for No. 18 to have the advantage in hand-to-hand. And given that Goten is a goofy, inexperienced kid, No. 17 might be able to take advantage of that, especially if he fights evasively and lets Goten tier himself out. Goten wins six times out of ten.

Of course, all of this goes out the window if Goten has already trained in the Room of Spirit and Time. In that case, Goten's power advantage is too much for No. 17 to overcome.

Is 18 really just slightly stronger, 17 seemed much more confident in his power being bigger

It's actually the opposite. The title page for Dragon Ball Chapter 367 says that No. 18's power is slightly suppressed compared to No. 17.

[Big Green The Yoshi]

#17 talks out of his ass all the time. He even said he'd take out Imperfect Cell after #16 injured him.

[Nejishiki]

Re: No. 17 vs No. 18

#17
"Too much attention was placed on its power capabilities, so it refused to take orders. Failure. (Cyborg)"
#18
"Although its power was suppressed—compared to #17—It also did not follow orders. Failure. (Cyborg)"

While I'm here, something silly I thought of due to a typo I made:

Juririn (Kuririn x Juri) vs Zaleena (Zarbon x Mileena)
Decide the Destiny!

[dragon boss z]

Once more (are you the same person?), you're confusing Weekly Shounen Jump with V-Jump. Dore & Sauzer's Battle Powers are from the former source (No. 25, 1991 issue). Kuririn's Battle Power was provided by V-Jump's first issue (12 December 1990), the source that tends to have its information reprinted in databooks & was minding the original manga's story. Attacking a typo that was comprehensible through its own context is rather disingenuous, wouldn't you say?

Coola's "estimated" Battle Power applied to a video game (Dragon Ball Z 3). It wasn't manga-specific information like with the Namek arc era guide thus it would serve one well to consider the appropriate background of what's being read. I think it suffices to say that gameplay isn't meant to contain main series-specific figures. On that note, it was Coola, Broli, & Gogeta's 3D debut. They were being hyped for the product they were going to be featured in. At no point were their estimated figures advertised as Battle Powers coexisting with the original story (never mind that the trio originated from alternate continuities to begin with). It seems as if you're attempting to discredit V-Jump by any means necessary, going as far to forgo what the consumed information really meant.

You are right about the Dore and Salza power levels, but Cooler's was from V-jump. I got confused because I just assumed his henchman's power levels came from the same source.
Either way Kanzenshuu's power level guide orders their sources from most official to least official and they ranked V-jump under shonen jump, and shonen jump clearly has false power levels. The Daizenshuu is the most official source and the only source that doesn't have power levels that don't make sense.

from Kanzenshuu's battle power guide page.

Battle powers on this page are listed roughly in order of the official status of their source — this means that the Daizenshuu are listed at the top, and after them are the Super Exciting Guides, etc. Magazine releases are placed below these.

[The_Destroyer]

Cell vs Zamasu(Not immortal) at equal power.

[Gog]

Cell vs Zamasu(Not immortal) at equal power.

Cell takes it because of the regeneration. If not, I can see Zamasu taking it.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Android 17 vs SS Goten

17 gets oneshotted. Goten was able to give Gohan a good workout, and Buu Arc Gohan is far beyond 17. Even if Goten has only half of Gohan's strength he's still well over twice as strong as 17.

Let's see here... Well, during the tournament, No. 18 was scared spitless by a heavily suppressed blast from Trunks, implying he's at least as powerful, if not more so, than her. Goten is only a smidge weaker than Trunks and No. 17 is only a smidge stronger than No. 18, so odds are that Goten is stronger than No. 17 by a noticeable amount.
On the other hand, the kids are probably not that much stronger than No. 18 if Mighty Mask's costume was restrictive enough for No. 18 to have the advantage in hand-to-hand. And given that Goten is a goofy, inexperienced kid, No. 17 might be able to take advantage of that, especially if he fights evasively and lets Goten tier himself out. Goten wins six times out of ten.

Of course, all of this goes out the window if Goten has already trained in the Room of Spirit and Time. In that case, Goten's power advantage is too much for No. 17 to overcome.

They didn't do any hand to hand with 18 as SSJs, she destroyed their costume immediately after Trunks fired that blast at her.

[DanielSSJ]

They didn't do any hand to hand with 18 as SSJs, she destroyed their costume immediately after Trunks fired that blast at her.

True, but right after transforming, Trunks says that their still at a disadvantage due to the costume.

Context: as Trunks and Goten fight No.18 in their Mighty Mask costume
Trunks: “Da-dammit! We can’t win like this!”
Goten: “Let’s turn into Super Saiyans, Trunks!”
Trunks: “That's it! We’ve got this thing on, so she won’t be able to tell who we are…Alright! Shall we turn into [Super Saiyans]?”
Goten: “Yeah!”
No.18: “…He really is a weird bastard…His arms and legs are extremely small for his body…And he’s so unusually strong…”
*they become Super Saiyans*
No.18: “!!”
Trunks: “Either way, we’re at a disadvantage in this getup, so we’ve got no choice but to settle this with a kiai cannon!”
Goten: “Eh! But will she be alright?...”
Trunks: “Don’t worry, she won’t die if we do it appropriately. She’s No.18…”

[TheUltimateNinja]

They didn't do any hand to hand with 18 as SSJs, she destroyed their costume immediately after Trunks fired that blast at her.

True, but right after transforming, Trunks says that their still at a disadvantage due to the costume.

Context: as Trunks and Goten fight No.18 in their Mighty Mask costume
Trunks: “Da-dammit! We can’t win like this!”
Goten: “Let’s turn into Super Saiyans, Trunks!”
Trunks: “That's it! We’ve got this thing on, so she won’t be able to tell who we are…Alright! Shall we turn into [Super Saiyans]?”
Goten: “Yeah!”
No.18: “…He really is a weird bastard…His arms and legs are extremely small for his body…And he’s so unusually strong…”
*they become Super Saiyans*
No.18: “!!”
Trunks: “Either way, we’re at a disadvantage in this getup, so we’ve got no choice but to settle this with a kiai cannon!”
Goten: “Eh! But will she be alright?...”
Trunks: “Don’t worry, she won’t die if we do it appropriately. She’s No.18…”

Being forced to fight while stacked on top of each other in addition to being in a restrictive costume is a pretty huge handicap. Goten can't turn his head at all and can only look straight forward through those eye holes, his field of vision is practically non-existent and his arms are unusable. Trunks can't control where he goes, he has to rely on Goten for that, and his legs are unusable. They also can't coordinate their movements at all and the only way they have of conveying their intentions to one another is through speech. Even Goku and Vegeta would experience some serious difficulty fighting under such circumstances.

[dragonball0900]

They didn't do any hand to hand with 18 as SSJs, she destroyed their costume immediately after Trunks fired that blast at her.

True, but right after transforming, Trunks says that their still at a disadvantage due to the costume.

Context: as Trunks and Goten fight No.18 in their Mighty Mask costume
Trunks: “Da-dammit! We can’t win like this!”
Goten: “Let’s turn into Super Saiyans, Trunks!”
Trunks: “That's it! We’ve got this thing on, so she won’t be able to tell who we are…Alright! Shall we turn into [Super Saiyans]?”
Goten: “Yeah!”
No.18: “…He really is a weird bastard…His arms and legs are extremely small for his body…And he’s so unusually strong…”
*they become Super Saiyans*
No.18: “!!”
Trunks: “Either way, we’re at a disadvantage in this getup, so we’ve got no choice but to settle this with a kiai cannon!”
Goten: “Eh! But will she be alright?...”
Trunks: “Don’t worry, she won’t die if we do it appropriately. She’s No.18…”

I agree with TheUltimateNinja here. A18 never fought the kids as SSJ's in the manga, and as it was said, the clothing was difficult for Goten and Trunks to do their moviments and control their SSJ power, so they had to rely on Trunks (who is the one with the arms and head) to threw ki blasts. But Trunks decided to use a suppressed power since the kids didn't want to kill her, and that ki blast scared A18, and she had to dodge it.
If the attack wasn't suppressed and was instead full power, then we can argue that A18 was probably stronger or equal or slightly inferior. But the attack was completely suppressed as stated by Trunks. In my opinion, Goten and Trunks are only slightly inferior to Semi Perfect Cell and he would be the strongest character they could defeat if they work together and win. (After the ROSAT, they are probably stronger than ASSJ Vegeta, or around Cell Games Piccolo, but weaker than Buu Saga Piccolo. Considering they trained together, and are kids that have a lot of potential.)

[DanielSSJ]

If the kids are really so much stronger than No. 18, the restrictive nature of the costume wouldn't matter. If she isn't strong enough to actually hurt them and they're strong enough to knock her out in a single blow, and they can move faster than she can react, it wouldn't matter if they have trouble coordinating their movements. My whole point is that, while the kids are definitely stronger than No. 18 and could probably win against her normally, they aren't a massive amount stronger if such a costume puts them at a disadvantage.

I mean, do think that Piccolo would win against Super Saiyan Goku and Vegeta even if they were stuck in a constume like that? Baring any Makankosappo shenanigans, I would say no.

[Gog]

The ultimate fight too the death

Super saiyan two nappa vs first form Freeza

[dbgtFO]

I mean, do think that Piccolo would win against Super Saiyan Goku and Vegeta even if they were stuck in a constume like that? Baring any Makankosappo shenanigans, I would say no.

Goku has teleportation, so of course they'd win easily.

[dragonball0900]

If the kids are really so much stronger than No. 18, the restrictive nature of the costume wouldn't matter. If she isn't strong enough to actually hurt them and they're strong enough to knock her out in a single blow, and they can move faster than she can react, it wouldn't matter if they have trouble coordinating their movements. My whole point is that, while the kids are definitely stronger than No. 18 and could probably win against her normally, they aren't a massive amount stronger if such a costume puts them at a disadvantage.

I mean, do think that Piccolo would win against Super Saiyan Goku and Vegeta even if they were stuck in a constume like that? Baring any Makankosappo shenanigans, I would say no.

It's not that they would lose if they have the costume, it was just too uncomfortable for them, specially since both of them were using it at the same time (with Goten below and Trunks above), Trunks wouldn't be able to control the legs since Goten is in charge of that. They would have a lot of trouble trying to tell between each other how to use their movements. If it was just one person using the costume, then it would be easier, but they were two people, and are kids and are much less experienced than Goku and Vegeta, and also have less techniques than them. They would have won against A18 with the costume, but with the reasons I stated here they wouldn't be able to move that well, so they had to rely on ki attacks, who where fully suppressed, which made A18 scared of them.

The ultimate fight too the death

Super saiyan two nappa vs first form Freeza

Nappa wins if gets his mind calm, just like how he did to Goku.

[Gog]

If the kids are really so much stronger than No. 18, the restrictive nature of the costume wouldn't matter. If she isn't strong enough to actually hurt them and they're strong enough to knock her out in a single blow, and they can move faster than she can react, it wouldn't matter if they have trouble coordinating their movements. My whole point is that, while the kids are definitely stronger than No. 18 and could probably win against her normally, they aren't a massive amount stronger if such a costume puts them at a disadvantage.

I mean, do think that Piccolo would win against Super Saiyan Goku and Vegeta even if they were stuck in a constume like that? Baring any Makankosappo shenanigans, I would say no.

It's not that they would lose if they have the costume, it was just too uncomfortable for them, specially since both of them were using it at the same time (with Goten below and Trunks above), Trunks wouldn't be able to control the legs since Goten is in charge of that. They would have a lot of trouble trying to tell between each other how to use their movements. If it was just one person using the costume, then it would be easier, but they were two people, and are kids and are much less experienced than Goku and Vegeta, and also have less techniques than them. They would have won against A18 with the costume, but with the reasons I stated here they wouldn't be able to move that well, so they had to rely on ki attacks, who where fully suppressed, which made A18 scared of them.

The ultimate fight too the death

Super saiyan two nappa vs first form Freeza

Nappa wins if gets his mind calm, just like how he did to Goku.

If that's the case then Nappa gets crushed by Freeza. as being calm isn't his thing.

[dragonball0900]

If that's the case then Nappa gets crushed by Freeza. as being calm isn't his thing.

Well, yes. That's true. Since Nappa without being calmed would be 4,000 and in SSJ2 he would be 400,000, which is below 530,000. Although it's possible that his resistance would allow him to make a good battle.

[TheUltimateNinja]

If the kids are really so much stronger than No. 18, the restrictive nature of the costume wouldn't matter. If she isn't strong enough to actually hurt them and they're strong enough to knock her out in a single blow, and they can move faster than she can react, it wouldn't matter if they have trouble coordinating their movements. My whole point is that, while the kids are definitely stronger than No. 18 and could probably win against her normally, they aren't a massive amount stronger if such a costume puts them at a disadvantage.

I mean, do think that Piccolo would win against Super Saiyan Goku and Vegeta even if they were stuck in a constume like that? Baring any Makankosappo shenanigans, I would say no.

Piccolo would win if Goku doesn't use IT. All he has to do is stand behind them and he's invincible.

[Nejishiki]

Once more (are you the same person?), you're confusing Weekly Shounen Jump with V-Jump. Dore & Sauzer's Battle Powers are from the former source (No. 25, 1991 issue). Kuririn's Battle Power was provided by V-Jump's first issue (12 December 1990), the source that tends to have its information reprinted in databooks & was minding the original manga's story. Attacking a typo that was comprehensible through its own context is rather disingenuous, wouldn't you say?

Coola's "estimated" Battle Power applied to a video game (Dragon Ball Z 3). It wasn't manga-specific information like with the Namek arc era guide thus it would serve one well to consider the appropriate background of what's being read. I think it suffices to say that gameplay isn't meant to contain main series-specific figures. On that note, it was Coola, Broli, & Gogeta's 3D debut. They were being hyped for the product they were going to be featured in. At no point were their estimated figures advertised as Battle Powers coexisting with the original story (never mind that the trio originated from alternate continuities to begin with). It seems as if you're attempting to discredit V-Jump by any means necessary, going as far to forgo what the consumed information really meant.

You are right about the Dore and Salza power levels, but Cooler's was from V-jump. I got confused because I just assumed his henchman's power levels came from the same source.
Either way Kanzenshuu's power level guide orders their sources from most official to least official and they ranked V-jump under shonen jump, and shonen jump clearly has false power levels. The Daizenshuu is the most official source and the only source that doesn't have power levels that don't make sense.

from Kanzenshuu's battle power guide page.

Battle powers on this page are listed roughly in order of the official status of their source — this means that the Daizenshuu are listed at the top, and after them are the Super Exciting Guides, etc. Magazine releases are placed below these.

As noted in my message, Coola's Battle Power was "estimated" for the Dragon Ball Z 3 video game, not the original story. The introductory V-Jump issue for Namek arc Battle Powers directly correlated to recent events in the original story. The context is apparent, which is part of my request for one to consider the background of what's being read. With that said, your insistence on Dore & Sauzer's readings being "clearly false" doesn't seem "clear", from my observation. There's nothing inherently "false" or "inaccurate" with the readings (which applied to Dragon Ball Z Movie 05) & your stance seems based on attacking established information to further your own preferences.

[moochfloatjr]

Watagash-possessed Perfect Cell (before his self-destruction) vs SS2 Cell Games Gohan.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Watagash-possessed Perfect Cell (before his self-destruction) vs SS2 Cell Games Gohan.

Gohan gets completely fucked. Watagash gave Barry a huge boost, if Cell were to get that same boost Gohan's a goner.