Unpopular DB opinions

[Cetra]

Thanks for telling me that. Just take that as a rant, nothing more, nothing less.

Don't you think you rant and vent a bit too much?

[TheUltimateNinja]

I think that's what I'm taking away from this, you like X more than Y, therefore Y is incompetent. That's fine, but I don't get why you point out problems equally present both as evidence for X's objective superiority, but I get even less why you pointed out 1 problem that doesn't even exist.

Saying Toyotaro is incompetent does not imply that the anime team is, though they certainly have a few great animators like Naotoshi Shida, Toyotaro is just one guy so it should be a lot harder for him to fuck up.

Also, those are far from the only issues I have with the manga, but the rest are somewhat subjective, for example Black and Zamasu are both weaker characters, especially Black, and Zamasu's motivation for stealing Goku's body is quite flimsy. Also, that Go Kart scene was utterly pointless and he wasted too much time on it. I could go on, but some people may actually prefer these changes.

And powerscaling is highly important in a fighting Shounen like Dragon Ball, it's pointless if a character's power changes dramatically for no reason and without any explanation, it makes it hard to become emotionally invested in the story. A story doesn't have to be realistic, but it should at least follow its own internal logic otherwise there's no reason to give a damn about the characters' struggles. As of right now, SSRose Black should be well over a thousand times stronger than SSBlue Goku and Vegeta, even fusing into Vegetto shouldn't allow them to overcome such a huge power gap, but since we have no idea what kind of power scale Toyotaro is working with not only will they manage to overpower him, they'll beat Merged Zamasu as well.

[Gog]

Thanks for telling me that. Just take that as a rant, nothing more, nothing less.

Don't you think you rant and vent a bit too much?

I hardly rant at all, it's just when I read something that angers or annoys me I like to write a rant of it, I like writing rants on things that annoy me as I actually find it fun. Also taking MULE'S suggestion I started reading the Black Goku Manga arc and I was pleasantly surprised with what I read before Viz manga kicked me out, things were explained well, it made sense, and it was well paced. Besides one minor nit pick of the future being tonally inferior to the Black arc in the anime, and Bulma referring to Freeza as 'golden Freeza' it was not bad, in fact it was good.

But there are still some glaring flaws with it, Bulma's death was laughable, as in I literally laughed when I read it. It was just terrible. And Black's introduction while good, was just inferior to the Anime's. Also the emotional moments don't feel as good for some reason

[Cetra]

I hardly rant at all

You reply very often to my posts with "sorry just venting/ranting".

[Gog]

I hardly rant at all

You reply very often to my posts with "sorry just venting/ranting".

Yes, but those are the rants, I don't actually rant much, generally, I don't rant much

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Saying Toyotaro is incompetent does not imply that the anime team is ... Toyotaro is just one guy so it should be a lot harder for him to fuck up.

I didn't say, or even imply that the anime was incompetent. I don't think either are. As far as Toyotaro goes, it's not just him. He has to stick to Toriyama's script, Toriyama corrects his storyboards, and some coordination with the animation team has been implied. However, even if it were just him, that doesn't necessarily mean that it should be better, it just means that there won't be many major coordination issues. It also introduces the possibility that there won't be enough room for fresh perspectives, which can be detrimental. That's a pitfall that Toyotaro has all but avoided, by the way.

Also, those are far from the only issues I have with the manga, but the rest are somewhat subjective, for example Black and Zamasu are both weaker characters, especially Black, and Zamasu's motivation for stealing Goku's body is quite flimsy. Also, that Go Kart scene was utterly pointless and he wasted too much time on it. I could go on, but some people may actually prefer these changes.

Criticisms of high subjectivity isn't grounds for accusing someone of incompetence. It just means that you don't like it. By the way, that carting scene was all of what, 3 or 4 pages? he wouldn't have gotten much farther in the plot even if those pages didn't exist.

And powerscaling is highly important in a fighting Shounen like Dragon Ball...

Firstly, no it isn't. Secondly, especially not in a series like Dragon Ball, a franchise that's notorious for its flimsiness in that area and still manages to cohere. Even if it was super important, the fact remains that Dragon Ball has always been bad with this, and it has nothing to do with incompetence on Toyotaro's end.

Like I said, you're just bad-mouthing. You're degrading someone's job, their talent, their livelihood, just because you personally don't enjoy their work. That's fucked up.

[mfwlegend3]

Bulma's death was laughable, as in I literally laughed when I read it. It was just terrible.

Future Bulma's death wasn't shown. And how was Future Mai, the only person Future Trunks has left in that timeline, comforting him after his loss funny?

Like I said, you're just bad-mouthing. You're degrading someone's job, their talent, their livelihood, just because you personally don't enjoy their work. That's fucked up.

Well said.

[Gog]

Bulma's death was laughable, as in I literally laughed when I read it. It was just terrible.

Future Bulma's death wasn't shown. And how was Future Mai, the only person Future Trunks has left in that timeline, comforting him after his loss funny?

Exactly her death wasn't shown, it wasn't that impactful, especially when you compare it to the anime. Which was the problem it wasn't that good, heck it wasn't even shown. So it was just inferior to what was in the anime. Also I have a dark sense of humor, as I found Freeza killing the namekian children to be funny. And Bulma's death was also terrible in the manga as well.

[mfwlegend3]

Exactly her death wasn't shown, it wasn't that impactful, especially when you compare it to the anime. Which was the problem it wasn't that good, heck it wasn't even shown. So it was just inferior to what was in the anime.

And because it wasn't shown it made the situation so hilarious that you actually laughed? Future Trunks lost his mother, a person who he loved very much, to someone who he had no chances of winning against. Mai, being the only other person alive on Earth as well as someone who cared about Trunks greatly, embraced and comforted him. I don't see anything funny about that. Just because the death wasn't shown doesn't make it terrible. The message still hit home and her death still emotionally effected Trunks.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Bulma's death was laughable, as in I literally laughed when I read it. It was just terrible.

Future Bulma's death wasn't shown. And how was Future Mai, the only person Future Trunks has left in that timeline, comforting him after his loss funny?

Exactly her death wasn't shown, it wasn't that impactful, especially when you compare it to the anime. Which was the problem it wasn't that good, heck it wasn't even shown. So it was just inferior to what was in the anime. Also I have a dark sense of humor, as I found Freeza killing the namekian children to be funny. And Bulma's death was also terrible in the manga as well.

I did like the Bulma scene in the anime, and I'll even acknowledge that Toyotaro probably should have given screen-time to Future Bulma since she's, y'know, his mom. It's kind of a big deal. That said, with all things considered, the fact that her death wasn't referenced isn't blatant since she was never a major character in the arc to begin with. It doesn't impact the overall narrative in a significant way, so I'll shamelessly excuse it.

And because it wasn't shown it made the situation so hilarious that you actually laughed?

It's called a figure of speech. It means that it was ridiculous.

[Gog]

Exactly her death wasn't shown, it wasn't that impactful, especially when you compare it to the anime. Which was the problem it wasn't that good, heck it wasn't even shown. So it was just inferior to what was in the anime.

And because it wasn't shown it made the situation so hilarious that you actually laughed? Future Trunks lost his mother, a person who he loved very much, to someone who he had no chances of winning against. Mai, being the only other person alive on Earth as well as someone who cared about Trunks greatly, embraced and comforted him. I don't see anything funny about that. Just because the death wasn't shown doesn't make it terrible. The message still hit home and her death still emotionally effected Trunks.

Because in my opinion, the death just wasn't well done or impactful, for heck's sake we never even got to see Bulma, before she got offed off by Black. And even with all of this, Trunk's is only sad for what two pages? It's just not that good of a scene in my book. In fact it's a terrible scene. I can't relate to it as all as the whole scene feels rushed. No build up, didn't even see the person being killed, and it felt rushed.

I did like the Bulma scene in the anime, and I'll even acknowledge that Toyotaro probably should have given screen-time to Future Bulma since she's, y'know, his mom. It's kind of a big deal. That said, with all things considered, the fact that her death isn't referenced isn't blatant since she was never a major character in the arc to begin with. It doesn't impact the overall narrative in a significant way, so I'll shamelessly excuse it.

But that still doesn't excuse the fact that, that was meant to be an incredibly emotional scene, where we were actually meant to have felt sympathy and feel for Trunks. I should not have laughed during that scene, I absolutely 100% should not laugh during that scene. Her death is what helps make us hate Black even more and understand and root for Trunks more. The fact that it was just brushed aside so quickly is inexcusable.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

But that still doesn't excuse the fact that that was meant to be an incredibly emotional scene where we were actually meant to have felt sympathy and feel for Trunks.

...in the anime. It was supposed to be that in the anime, and it was. They're different projects operating on different storyboards, meaning that it wasn't supposed to happen in the manga.

Her death is what helps make us hate Black even more and understand and root for Trunks more. The fact that it was just brushed aside so quickly is inexcusable.

That... and the fact that he's an arrogant, small-dicked loser who is literally on a mission to murder everyone in the multiverse (megaverse, in the manga). Bulma's death was a "nice" thing to happen in the anime, but it really wasn't ever that important as far as the overall plot is concerned. It's weird that she wasn't included, especially now that we know for sure that he's going all-out with these chapters, but it's far from inexcusable.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Saying Toyotaro is incompetent does not imply that the anime team is ... Toyotaro is just one guy so it should be a lot harder for him to fuck up.

I didn't say, or even imply that the anime was incompetent. I don't think either are. As far as Toyotaro goes, it's not just him. He has to stick to Toriyama's script, Toriyama corrects his storyboards, and some coordination with the animation team has been implied. However, even if it were just him, that doesn't necessarily mean that it should be better, it just means that there won't be many major coordination issues. It also introduces the possibility that there won't be enough room for fresh perspectives, which can be detrimental. That's a pitfall that Toyotaro has all but avoided, by the way.

I mistyped, that was supposed to say isn't, not is.

And powerscaling is highly important in a fighting Shounen like Dragon Ball...

Firstly, no it isn't. Secondly, especially not in a series like Dragon Ball, a franchise that's notorious for its flimsiness in that area and still manages to cohere. Even if it was super important, the fact remains that Dragon Ball has always been bad with this, and it has nothing to do with incompetence on Toyotaro's end.

Like I said, you're just bad-mouthing. You're degrading someone's job, their talent, their livelihood, just because you personally don't enjoy their work. That's fucked up.

Dragon Ball had a perfectly understandable power structure, I don't see any major flaws in the original manga, especially the Z portion, what are you thinking of specifically? There's nothing contradictory even in the Buu Arc's rather ambiguous power scale.

Also, seriously? You're being ridiculous here, his job, his talent, his livelihood, are all based on entertaining Dragon Ball fans, and in my case he's failed to do that. If this was some random fanfic undertaking like his previous works I wouldn't care, but he's being paid to do this, he's been hired because someone thought he'd make a decent replacement for Toriyama, and in such an important position he should fully expect to be criticized. If by some miracle I were chosen to draw the manga version of Super instead of Toyotaro, I'm sure everyone on this forum would call me a garbage artist and they would be wholly justified in doing so since my artistic skills are nowhere close to those of a professional mangaka, they may be insulting my job, my talent, my livelihood, but there's nothing wrong with that at all.

And even if by some miracle Toyo were to come across my criticisms, I doubt he'd even give a damn. Oh man, some random guy on the internet dislikes his work, I'm sure he's devastated.

[Gog]

...in the anime. It was supposed to be that in the anime, and it was. They're different projects operating on different storyboards, meaning that it wasn't supposed to happen in the manga.

And it was supposed to be that in the manga, we can see that from what was shown to us, and what was shown to us was that Bulma's death was meant to be an emotionally impactful moment. But it's just not.

That... and the fact that he's an arrogant, small-dicked loser who is literally on a mission to murder everyone in the multiverse (megaverse, in the manga). Bulma's death was a "nice" thing to happen in the anime, but it really wasn't ever that important as far as the overall plot is concerned. It's weird that she wasn't included, especially now that we know for sure that he's going all-out with these chapters, but it's far from inexcusable.

Hey, hey. Black has Goku's body, so that's factually incorrect. Eh, he may be a loser, but he's the best loser to walk this earth. Not everyone. Every sentient being. So by that logic I can remove Piccolo from the namek arc as it wasn't that important, or all the forms in between super saiyan 1 and 2, heck I could remove most characters in most arc as they really aren't important for the overall plot. That's the logic that you are implying here.

It is inexcusable that she wasn't shown, as it just made the supposedly sympathetic Trunks scene, were you sympathize with him. Laughable, and just plain bad

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Dragon Ball had a perfectly understandable power structure, I don't see any major flaws in the original manga, especially the Z portion, what are you thinking of specifically? There's nothing contradictory even in the Buu Arc's rather ambiguous power scale.

The Boo Arc is almost a third of the Z portion, but whatever.

I'm not a big power scaling guy, but here's a short list off the top of my head:
-A lot of people say SS is 50x, right? I'm no math expert, but I think it would take some finagling with the numbers to make that work in the Freeza fight.
-Zenkai boosts are bullshit incarnate, a mechanical power level problem. Wildly unreliable and inconsistent as well.
-Android 19 & 20 are easily handled by SS Vegeta, Androids who are supposed to far surpass Freeza
-Pre-fusion Piccolo is also implied to be able to tackle these Androids. What the hell?!
-Not sure if this counts, but past 17 and 18 end up being way weaker than present 17 and 18 for no particular in-universe reason. They're exactly the same, but with huge power discrepancies.
-Also not sure if this counts, but all of a sudden, muscle mass/size slows characters down. Totally contradicted strength mechanics that came before.
-The post-Vegeta Boo Arc is a power scale inconsistency.

...and then we have DBS. So I guess you're right in that there weren't specific inconsistencies at first, but there were more mechanical ones.

...he's been hired because someone thought he'd make a decent replacement for Toriyama, and in such an important position he should fully expect to be criticized.

No no, you're totally missing it. You didn't criticize his work, you called him incompetent when he was demonstrably one of only 2 possible choices to begin with, and by most accounts he's done a damn good job! Even if you don't personally like it. Anyway, after you bad-mouthed, then you went on to criticize his work... only none of the criticisms held up once we factor in that the valid issues you mentioned are problems with every other modern DB product. See, even if you're right about early power scaling being fine, it doesn't matter, because everything past the Boo Arc is still shifty. It's still demonstrably not a problem with the guy who's livelihood you degraded.

...even if by some miracle Toyo were to come across my criticisms, I doubt he'd even give a damn. Oh man, some random guy on the internet dislikes his work, I'm sure he's devastated.

That's not the point, your now-invalidated criticisms are secondary, and the insult that was your main point was underhanded and dickish.

And it was supposed to be that in the manga, we can see that from what was shown to us, and what was shown to us was that Bulma's death was meant to be an emotionally impactful moment. But it's just not.

If it was supposed to be there, it would be there, that's all there is to say. It was supposed to be an emotional moment in a different version of events, and it was in a different version of events. You're making a mistake that a lot of people do, conflating the anime and manga as if they were the same product. They aren't.

So by that logic I can remove Piccolo from the namek arc as it wasn't that important, or all the forms in between super saiyan 1 and 2, heck I could remove most characters in most arc as they really aren't important for the overall plot. That's the logic that you are implying here.

YES!!! If they aren't important, they don't have to be there for it to function! Dragon Ball as a whole is the living example that this is the case. It's enjoyable to have a nice, colorful pool of side characters with sub/side-plots, but it's not necessary. You would need Super Vegeta to get Cell to perfection, though.

It is inexcusable that she wasn't shown, as it just made the supposedly sympathetic Trunks scene, were you sympathize with him. Laughable, and just plain bad

"Lacking" is a word that I'd use, but not inexcusable. You're the only one who thinks that it's laughable, though. If you liked the Bulma scene, fine. If you thought it added special flavor to Trunks' character, fine, but it wasn't necessary.

[Ki Breaker]

Rof movie was pretty good, don't know if I wrote it before or not..

[MyNiggaGoku]

Rof movie was pretty good, don't know if I wrote it before or not..

I wrote before that RoF is the worst movie...guess both opinions are unpopular

[Ki Breaker]

Rof movie was pretty good, don't know if I wrote it before or not..

I wrote before that RoF is the worst movie...guess both opinions are unpopular

That can't be right
Had to post, I saw a lot of hate for rof, decided to rewach the movie, because super's version sucked camel balls..

[MyNiggaGoku]

Rof movie was pretty good, don't know if I wrote it before or not..

I wrote before that RoF is the worst movie...guess both opinions are unpopular

That can't be right
Had to post, I saw a lot of hate for rof, decided to rewach the movie, because super's version sucked camel balls..

It's not that I hate RoF(heck,it's dragon ball) but mostly dissappointed by it.So much potential was wasted & the end product was an entertaining mess imo.

[Gog]

If it was supposed to be there, it would be there, that's all there is to say. It was supposed to be an emotional moment in a different version of events, and it was in a different version of events. You're making a mistake that a lot of people do, conflating the anime and manga as if they were the same product. They aren't

I know, I know. It's just that the emotional moment, was just solely lacking in any substance and depth. That's my main problem with it. It didn't need to be the same, heck he could have just made it that Black keeps Bulma alive for the sole reason to kill her in front of Trunks, most painfully, and brutally as well. If he had done that, well I would be praising the scene, for being emotionally powerful . But he didn't she didn't even show up, so the emotional moment felt tacky, forced, and was just bad.

YES!!! If they aren't important, they don't have to be there for it to function! Dragon Ball as a whole is the living example that this is the case. It's enjoyable to have a nice, colorful pool of side characters with sub/side-plots, but it's not necessary. You would need Super Vegeta to get Cell to perfection, though.

I-I uh really wasn't expecting you to say that. But even with all of that I'd argue that future Bulma does have an importance to the plot, namely she makes the time machine to take Trunks to the future, and she's also meant to make an emotionally gripping scene. I'd even argue that removing a colorful cast of side characters with their own sub stories, would actually diminish the story overall.

"Lacking" is a word that I'd use, but not inexcusable. You're the only one who thinks that it's laughable, though. If you liked the Bulma scene, fine. If you thought it added special flavor to Trunks' character, fine, but it wasn't necessary.

Well I'm also the one guy who thought that Freeza killing the child namekians was a darkly humorous scene. And it is lacking, but to me it's inexcusable. If you want to make a powerfully emotional moment, you show the character your about to kill, you just don't kill them off screen and expect it to be emotionally gripping. a lot of things in a tale aren't necessary but stripping it away of all subplots, colorful casts of characters, and heck if we're getting technical character personality's aren't necessary to the plot, as they don't really add anything. Also character development doesn't really add anything.

By your logic none of these things truly matter as they arent important towards the story