Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[TheUltimateNinja]

So I though of a little game for this thread. If people like it maybe I can do it irregularly.

Basically you have to guess the power level of the characters in three scenarios I will make up.

Rules: You have to write the reason for the number you've given, in this thread. Answers like "because x trained" will not suffice, please put a little effort into it.
PM me the number, don't post it here with your explanation! This is important for the scoring.

Scoring: The winner is the one closest to the average number guessed of all participants. For example, if the average for x scenario is 100 and player 1 guesses 99, while player 2 guesses 80, player 1 wins.

Sign up: Limit of 10 people.

Scenario 1
How strong would Piccolo be, if he went to train with Kaio instead of Goku, after the Raditz battle?

Scenario 2
If Nappa survived the battle against Goku and later followed Vegeta's path. How powerful would he get by the start of the Boo arc?

Scenario 3
If instead of drinking the Ultra Divine Water, Goku had trained for some years like Karin suggested to face Piccolo Daimao. Let's say 3 years.

Let's see how this goes.

Alright, I'll play your game.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

So I though of a little game for this thread. If people like it maybe I can do it irregularly.

Basically you have to guess the power level of the characters in three scenarios I will make up.

Rules: You have to write the reason for the number you've given, in this thread. Answers like "because x trained" will not suffice, please put a little effort into it.
PM me the number, don't post it here with your explanation! This is important for the scoring.

Scoring: The winner is the one closest to the average number guessed of all participants. For example, if the average for x scenario is 100 and player 1 guesses 99, while player 2 guesses 80, player 1 wins.

Sign up: Limit of 10 people.

Scenario 1
How strong would Piccolo be, if he went to train with Kaio instead of Goku, after the Raditz battle?

Scenario 2
If Nappa survived the battle against Goku and later followed Vegeta's path. How powerful would he get by the start of the Boo arc?

Scenario 3
If instead of drinking the Ultra Divine Water, Goku had trained for some years like Karin suggested to face Piccolo Daimao. Let's say 3 years.

Let's see how this goes.

Scenario 1:
He and Goku were around the same power when fighting Raditz, but since Goku is a saiyan and do bigger increases, he would be a bit weaker than Goku after the train. Maybe high 7,000 - low 8,000.

Scenario 3 (Scenario 2 is the most complicated, i'll let him to the end):
Goku would probably train a lot and very angry, so i would put him even stronger than he was after driking the Ultra Water. I give him something like 300 or more.

Scenario 2:

He would be really weak. He was around 1/3 of Vegeta's power on earth, and the gap would be much bigger after the Ginyu Force fight since the last senzu probably still going to Vegeta (I use the theory about new healing mode = bigger zenkai boost) and i'm sure Vegeta would left him behind when he takes the Gravity Chamber and go train on space. He probably would train on the Rosat, since saiyans like to get stronger, and do regular train with Vegeta on the 7 years timeskip. I give him around the same from the pre Rosat base saiyans, and i think he wouldn't achieve SSJ.

[apex_pretador]

So I though of a little game for this thread. If people like it maybe I can do it irregularly.

Basically you have to guess the power level of the characters in three scenarios I will make up.

Rules: You have to write the reason for the number you've given, in this thread. Answers like "because x trained" will not suffice, please put a little effort into it.
PM me the number, don't post it here with your explanation! This is important for the scoring.

Scoring: The winner is the one closest to the average number guessed of all participants. For example, if the average for x scenario is 100 and player 1 guesses 99, while player 2 guesses 80, player 1 wins.

Sign up: Limit of 10 people.

Scenario 1
How strong would Piccolo be, if he went to train with Kaio instead of Goku, after the Raditz battle?

Scenario 2
If Nappa survived the battle against Goku and later followed Vegeta's path. How powerful would he get by the start of the Boo arc?

Scenario 3
If instead of drinking the Ultra Divine Water, Goku had trained for some years like Karin suggested to face Piccolo Daimao. Let's say 3 years.

Let's see how this goes.

Interesting. Pm'd you.

[LightBing]

We have four people so far. The GreatSaiyaman123 published his numbers here, I wonder if it will work against or for him. I will publish the results Monday, so that people have the weekend to participate if they want to.

[Big Green The Yoshi]

I was just wondering if any of you include the Boo Arc in your lists? I purposely don't because of all the inconsistencies.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I was just wondering if any of you include the Boo Arc in your lists? I purposely don't because of all the inconsistencies.

I do. What are these inconsistencies?

[Big Green The Yoshi]

I was just wondering if any of you include the Boo Arc in your lists? I purposely don't because of all the inconsistencies.

I do. What are these inconsistencies?

The Babidi's Ship portion mainly.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I was just wondering if any of you include the Boo Arc in your lists? I purposely don't because of all the inconsistencies.

I do. What are these inconsistencies?

The Babidi's Ship portion mainly.

The only one I think of is Goku's kili readings, but we already know it's not a linear scale so I don't care about it.

[DanielSSJ]

The only one I think of is Goku's kili readings, but we already know it's not a linear scale so I don't care about it.

Given that the two numbers listed (800 and 3,000) are used in Japan as a symbolic way of saying "a lot", so Toriyama was essentially saying that Goku and Yakon were both really strong in a cheeky way, without any real thought put in.

[apex_pretador]

I was just wondering if any of you include the Boo Arc in your lists? I purposely don't because of all the inconsistencies.

There are no inconsistencies if you look at it objectively, except Gohan's form vs Dabra

[Rubens]

Given that the two numbers listed (800 and 3,000) are used in Japan as a symbolic way of saying "a lot", so Toriyama was essentially saying that Goku and Yakon were both really strong in a cheeky way, without any real thought put in.

I'm curious though, what other numbers are also symbolic (in terms of "amount")?

[ekrolo2]

Here's an updated PL list I've made for the Black arc as of the latest chapter.

Goku:
- 280 mil (Base)
- 14 bill (Super Saiyan)
- 28 bill (Super Saiyan 2)
- 112 bill (Super Saiyan 3)
-28 trill (Super Saiyan God, Base x100,000)
- 56 trill (Super Saiyan Blue, Base x200,000)

Vegeta:
- 280 mill (Base)
- 14 bill (Super Saiyan)
- 28 bill (Super Saiyan 2)
- 8.4 trill (Quake of Fury/Rageta, Base x 30,000)
- 56 trill (Super Saiyan Blue)

Future Trunks:
- 282 mil (Base)
- 14.1 bill (Super Saiyan)
- 28.2 bill (Super Saiyan 2)
- 98.7 bill (Strengthened Super Saiyan 2, x3.5 SS2)

Black:
- 130 bill (Base)
- 6.5 trill (Super Saiyan, pre-first Zenkai)
- 65 trill (Super Saiyan, post-first Zenkai)
- 130 trill (Super Saiyan, post-second Zenkai)
- 26 quadrillion (Super Saiyan Rose)

Zamasu:
- 10 bill

[DanielSSJ]

I'm curious though, what other numbers are also symbolic (in terms of "amount")?

Not sure about Japan, but it's sorta like how the Bible uses 40 a lot (a flood lasting 40 days and 40 nights). Heck, they even make note of this in their battle power guide.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I was just wondering if any of you include the Boo Arc in your lists? I purposely don't because of all the inconsistencies.

There are no inconsistencies if you look at it objectively, except Gohan's form vs Dabra

Gohan's clearly an FPSSJ. Goku says Dabura isn't much of a threat before anyone knows he can go SSJ2, and nobody rebuts him. Vegeta is still surprised when Goku uses SSJ2 against Yakon, so SSJ Goku > Dabura.

[DBZ Macky]

The Anime, at the very least, seems to imply that Dabra > SS Goku.

Goku as a Super Saiyan is 3,000 kiris while Dabra says that even 4,000 kiris is no match for him.
Not to mention the fact that Gohan's aura is drawn more like a Super Saiyan 2.

One of the Daizenshuus CLEARLY mentions that Dabra fought evenly with SS2 Gohan.

I think at the very least, all of us can agree that Gohan was a SS2 in the Anime.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I was just wondering if any of you include the Boo Arc in your lists? I purposely don't because of all the inconsistencies.

There are no inconsistencies if you look at it objectively, except Gohan's form vs Dabra

Gohan's clearly an FPSSJ. Goku says Dabura isn't much of a threat before anyone knows he can go SSJ2, and nobody rebuts him. Vegeta is still surprised when Goku uses SSJ2 against Yakon, so SSJ Goku > Dabura.

And whats the point with that? Even if you think that Gohan was a FPSSJ, you can't deny that Dabura's FP is around Perfect Cell's levels. This mean nothing but SSJ Goku > Perfect Cell.

One of the Daizenshuus CLEARLY mentions that Dabra fought evenly with SS2 Gohan.

I really belive that Gohan was a SSJ2 against Dabura, but the Daizenshuu isn't an argument. IIRC, another Daiz says that Gohan was only SSJ2 at the Tournament, directly contradicting that.

[TheUltimateNinja]

There are no inconsistencies if you look at it objectively, except Gohan's form vs Dabra

Gohan's clearly an FPSSJ. Goku says Dabura isn't much of a threat before anyone knows he can go SSJ2, and nobody rebuts him. Vegeta is still surprised when Goku uses SSJ2 against Yakon, so SSJ Goku > Dabura.

And whats the point with that? Even if you think that Gohan was a FPSSJ, you can't deny that Dabura's FP is around Perfect Cell's levels. This mean nothing but SSJ Goku > Perfect Cell.

SSJ Goku also isn't much stronger than Kid Gohan, so I doubt he's already surpassed Cell.

[Noah]

I think at the very least, all of us can agree that Gohan was a SS2 in the Anime.

But not in the manga?

[apex_pretador]

I was just wondering if any of you include the Boo Arc in your lists? I purposely don't because of all the inconsistencies.

There are no inconsistencies if you look at it objectively, except Gohan's form vs Dabra

Gohan's clearly an FPSSJ. Goku says Dabura isn't much of a threat before anyone knows he can go SSJ2, and nobody rebuts him. Vegeta is still surprised when Goku uses SSJ2 against Yakon, so SSJ Goku > Dabura.

Which is inconsistent, seeing how trunks (trained with Z sword for longer than Gohan did) should be above post Z sword gohan let alone pre Z sword gohan, and was losing to Dabra. Even SS2 trunks didn't horribly stomp Dabra and needed Kaioshin's help.
Also, Kaioshin mentioned how kibito wasnt there to watch Gohan's "awesome power" which strongly hints he's above what level he was at budokai.
Then there is heavy implication that Gohan is having trouble because of lack of training, not because of using a weaker form.

Also, goku doesn't know everyone can go SS2, but he also says a few years ago he would've been a powerful opponent. It proves he has reached the level of perfect cell or surpassed him. Not to mention later goku says he underestimated dabra who's way stronger than he thought.



Everything except the art points out at Gohan being SS2, which is an inconsistency.

[DBZ Macky]

But not in the manga?

Because the other Daizenshuu states that Gohan never uses the form after the chapter where Gohan transforms in the Budokai.
I'm just trying to make both the contradictory statements work, and chalk it up to an example of Anime-Manga difference.

Besides, does Gohan's form against Dabra even affect the overarching power scale?