How would you move past EoZ?

[ABED]

but they didn't outshine Goku.

yea they did, to the point of Gohan winning popularity contests. But to quote "whatever you want".

Keeping Goku front and center in no way diminishes Toriyama's ability to develop characters and give them a purpose in the story as he did with Dragon Ball.

Super proves otherwise, Toriyama's having very hard time letting anyone else other than Goku & Vegeta have major involvement in the plot.

Those poles are hardly scientific and it's not exactly an objective statement anyway. I don't think they outshined Goku because he was still the main character. He's the icon.

Super doesn't prove anything. We saw it in pre-Z Dragon Ball where the stories revolved around Goku but the other characters got plenty of development. You seem to have little interest in anything DB related prior to the Saiyan arc. Super simply seems like poor writing all around.

[sintzu]

They retold 2 movies in 27 episodes so I wouldn't mind if they did the same with GT while changing it to fit with the current story.

They could retell the space adventure in 15 episodes. 2 episodes per ball and each Z fighter will go after one. the last episode will be them going home.

I'd also give baby 15 episodes but I'd make him more of a villain who thinks he's doing the right thing by trying to save the universe from the "evil" Saiyans.

The shadow Dragons could also be told in 15 episodes.

I'd keep Ssj4's look but I'd get rid of the Yellow Ozaru.
I'd also keep Baby the same. I don't think I'd have him take over Vegeta though.
I'd Keep Omega, Nova and Ice shenron the same but I'd change the others.

I don't think they should have those arcs follow each other so I'd add an arc or 2 between each one.

[Israelite Wolfman]

They retold 2 movies in 27 episodes so I wouldn't mind if they did the same with GT while changing it to fit with the current story.

They could retell the space adventure in 15 episodes. 2 episodes per ball and each Z fighter will go after one. the last episode will be them going home.

I'd also give baby 15 episodes but I'd make him more of a villain who thinks he's doing the right thing by trying to save the universe from the "evil" Saiyans.

The shadow Dragons could also be told in 15 episodes.

I'd keep Ssj4's look but I'd get rid of the Yellow Ozaru.
I'd also keep Baby the same. I don't think I'd have him take over Vegeta though.
I'd Keep Omega, Nova and Ice shenron the same but I'd change the others.

I don't think they should have those arcs follow each other so I'd add an arc or 2 between each one.

Let's begin with the simple fact they can look at the Dragon Ball Online chronology after the End of Z and to think of a story that will lead into these events. But not necessarily erase GT. I never liked the idea a Saiyan can go naked Golden Great Ape in order to transform into a SSJ4 who has back most of his previous clothes. But SSJ 4 is a great transformation that needs to stay. Due to Super's Super Saiyan God forms being part of the new canon, their multiplier should be explained and SSB to be somehow slightly less than SSJ 4.

GT should fix the whole Goku being wished to a kid again to make it GOKU TIME by making him bounded to the Earth due to the Black Star Dragon Balls' powers = if he'll leave the planet, Earth will explode right away, making his other friends to go into space, touring the galaxy to locate the balls for him (they have only one year to locate them all): Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Uub (trying to save his mentor), Vegeta, Piccolo, Pan (I'd say write out Giru, but maybe this would be like a little brother relations for her & a key for the Baby Saga) & Krillin (don't OVER AGE him again) with each going after a Dragon Ball via a smaller space craft that is intended to land/join the mother ship where Vegeta is at monitoring the operation (I don't want it to be a bloodthirsty adventure, he'd kill anyone in his way despite some conflicts can end without violence). Keep Baby as it was with all the Tsufurizations of Earth but indeed to give him a-la-Zamasu view of the world (believing he's doing the right thing exterminating Saiyans), have Piccolo made the ultimate sacrifice so the Black Stars Dragon Balls would cease to exist, he'll be named Hell's Keeper by King Yemma to help the Ogres there with problems. It's important to make Goku an adult again once obtaining the SSJ 4 form!

Then have a filler arc about Pan's going back to School's boredom despite her last year's adventure, suddenly Don Kee appears in town looking for revenge with Gale & Shela alongside a few weaker clones of Ledgic he managed to create from his blood that was shed during the match with Gohan on Imecka (yup, totally based on that 1997 GT musical).

Next: Switch Super 17 with Super Android 13 (making him canon), have all 3 androids (13, 14, 15) who were hidden in another secret lab awaken to monitor Cell's behavior/achievements with much greater power than his Perfect form due to being overloaded with data of self-improvement ever since Android 16 was activated provided by another spy camera robot, they realize that Cell had failed and decides to gather the Dragon Balls with a Dragon Radar implanted at their scanners and wish back Dr. Gero (who AS WELL has no ki so he's not traceable), they have 2 more wishes to ask Shenron and decide to give them to Gero, who in return wishes for an era of havoc upon Earth for mocking his wisdom, after Shenron fails to understand that, Gero asks for the revival of Dr. Myuu (who do have a ki) who he met in hell with the 2nd wish and to bring his physical body from Planet M-2 to Earth with the 3rd wish, they disappear into the shadows (Myuu lowers his ki to 0) for a while knowing the Z-Fighters may defeat them again once noticed, Piccolo who is in hell realizes BOTH Gero & Myuu had been revived and asks the others to keep their eyes open for further surprises, the two "doctors" began working on a Machine Mutant based technology that would be implanted into the 3 existing androids and will make them stronger to the point each of them can cause even SSJ adult Goku troubles, the whole process takes roughly 6 months, at the same time Vegeta's envy of Goku being now much stronger than him will cause Bulma to work on a Blutz Waves machine right after the Baby menace had gone, making him SSJ 4 too earlier in the series, the attack on Earth begins with Dr. Gero showing up in Android 17's park, much to his shock, he taunts him and tell him that this time he won't be the one to lose his head, **SLIZZZ** Android 14 pierce his stomach from behind, while 17 is in pain Gero punches and kicks him to the ground till he asks 13 to execute him to "get rid of the trash", 13 replies: "with pleasure..." and shoots a ki blast at the dying 17's face from close range. The death of 17 is sensed by 18 who goes to the forest and finds his beaten up body, Krillin follows her and has a bad feeling about staying there, he contact Goku and Gohan and informs them of what just happened, then the attack on West City begins, Gero, Myuu and their 3 androids rampage on the streets near Capsule Corp aiming to get there, Vegeta & Goku step outside and fly right into the danger zone, the two of them and their kids managed to defeat the 3 androids after a close battle while Dr. Gero joined Myuu who have used Gero's Dragon Radar technology to collect the Dragon Balls under their noses ASAP with fury about Baby's defeat and wishes for everyone who ever caused Goku and his friends pain or troubles to be revived from hell to the very place he's at (South City), the gates of hell are opening and the entire planet is covered by tons of villains, even the Galactic Frieza Army as a whole (10,000s of soldiers) are revived and launch an attack all over the planet, the non-Saiyan Z-Fighters joins the party and fight them to the death, meanwhile Goku and co. who see the havoc caused all over are about to land a hand but Android 13's core card was still activating and due to his Machine Mutant DNA he could pull a General Rildo act and absorb all his peers' shattered bodies into his own shattered one thus creating Super 13 who is much more powerful than Golden Great Ape Baby Vegeta was by a margin Dr. Gero's super computer was able to manufacture (let's say 135% Baby's full power), during the fight between SSJ 4 Goku, SSJ 4 Vegeta and the new enemy, Myuu who is just a rival ego maniac to Gero would try to cheat on Gero (much to his surprise) so he'd be the sole ruler of the universe, but Gero won't go down easily, he attacks Myuu with his strongest technique which makes him fatally injured (Myuu should be weaker than him IMO), each of them ask Super 13 to kill the other, the machine goes mad due to being programmed to obey both their voices and kills them both. The fight continues. ALL ENDS WELL like in the 7th DBZ movie + DBGT Super 17 Final Dragon Fist combined.

Have another filler arc with Beerus and Zalama - Goku and co. try to revive Piccolo but they can't do it without activating the bad Dragon Balls again, so they need an expert of these orbs: who other than the Dragon God himself. But he is not satisfied with Beerus' request to help them, as it's important to Universe 7's well being, and want them to prove themselves worthy for his help so he makes up a small tournament where Goku and Co. have to face illusions of the strongest fighters known to him. Then have the evil dragons saga with as many fighters that can go after each dragon (2-3 episodes per a dragon).

Super should have done the retellings of BoG & RoF better with having even the older guys like Krillin (at least in BoG), Yamcha & Chiaotzu involved (at least in BoG's original script Toriyama intended everyone to fight Beerus before Goku arrives, Toei dismissed him by telling him no movie theater would like to take a 120 minutes long movie instead of a 90 minutes piece, they could at least spread it over these dull DBS episodes).

About passing the End of Z - I believe that Gohan should take the lead for once (could have done it in DBZ with the 7 years time gap while Goku was dead before Gohan went full nerdo in Satan City), taking out all sorts of enemies that will try to take advantage of the Dragon Balls or just annex the Earth for whatever reason - they already had demons (Dabura, even though not being used properly), serial killer god (Zamasu), space overlords, androids and mystical beings (Majin Buu); now they have to pitch a new thing for us. As Goku and Uub are training to make him Goku's replacement (Goku's improvement in power somewhat stops due to his investment in Uub to be able to catch on with his God Ki), Vegeta who notices the lack of Goku's growth in power decides to stay in shape but to be with his family (Bulma & growing up Bra) for a while thus leaving Earth's protection for the other Z-Fighters: Gohan, Piccolo, Goten, Trunks, Krillin (again: don't OVER AGE him), Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu (to make it feel more like the original DB team, just ditch worthless Roshi to retire again) & Jaco.

[sintzu]

Let's begin with the simple fact they can look at the Dragon Ball Online chronology after the End of Z and to think of a story that will lead into these events. But not necessarily erase GT.

You have really good ideas.

If Goku is to stay on earth then I'd have Baby attack him while everyone is still gone and take over him instead of Vegeta. that would force everyone to save him instead of him saving them like he does all the time.

[kinisking]

I don't need any retelling of DBGT in Super. However, borrowing some concepts/characters such as ssj4 would be neat.

I think DB Online has some amazing ideas. For one Gohan's book is a great representation of his scholarly side and his fighting side mixed together. Secondly, something I NEEEEEEEED to see is the last Goku and Vegeta battle. It would be so emotional to see them fight their last battle to the death and would be a great ending to Goku's story.

The first few arcs would spend developing Goten, Trunks, Pan and Oob's characters. Just like Toriyama planned, I'd make oob the next main character. I definitely think he has some unexplored potential. Pan can be his Vegeta. There should also be a new character to fully diversify the cast. Gohan could fill a Piccolo role where he's a mentor figure to Pan. Just like Piccolo he'd eventually fall behind in power even if he does train though. Goten and Trunks will fall out of the game maybe an arc or two after him. I don't know what I'd do with Vegeta. Maybe he can train Goten and Trunks? So the main cast will be Goku ( Made mostly irrelevant an arc after Oob becomes the main character), Goten and Trunks (Made irrelevant two arcs after Oob becomes the main character) , Gohan (Made irrelevant when Goku does), Pan, Oob, Vegeta (becomes irrelevant as soon as Oob becomes the main character) and new character.

[Almighty Majin]

Nooooo I wanted to be the one to make this thread! Oh well lol

Anyways I wouldn't mind seeing a combination of a GT retelling and the prologue of DBO.

After Goku finishes fighting Uub in the tournament, he could take him to Beerus' planet and train him and then depending on how this current arc goes and if Cabba is still around, Vegeta can go train Cabba.
I was thinking of having Dr. Myuu and the machine mutants invade Earth while Goku and Vegeta are away which would force the Z-Fighters to come up and fight them and then you can throw in the rest of the stuff and the shadow dragons and what not. No Super 17 though.

[Lunaar]

I'm loving a lot of what I'm reading here. If I had perfect control over where it goes post-EoZ, it would absolutely be toward the events of DBO. As much as I think so much of GT is worth binning, there are concepts that cannot be dismissed. Isarelite Wolfman said what I've always wanted: give me a pantless, primal-induced Super Saiyan form (that isn't just called SS4 because... because) and we're golden. If Super somehow manages to work in a powerful "base" form by the end that harkens back to the "Mystic" Gohan days, it could explain why Goku and Vegeta never use God transformations ever again. Baby can stay with some reworking. The Black Star Dragon Balls and the Shadow Dragons can stay with some major reworking. The ending, as much as I love it, can stay out. DBO should be the wagon the story is driven upon.

Goku and Vegeta need to fight until they disappear within a giant supernova. I couldn't think of a better end for the two.

[Israelite Wolfman]

Thanks, it's always a joy when people like your fan fiction GT is a pretty good show in terms of animation quality and musical compositions, it gets 75/100 in my scale, it just fell between the chairs because it's compared to the original Dragon Ball & DBZ who got their ideas executed better than it's ideas. Their main problem in DBGT was focusing on Goku over the limit of "too much" and neglecting the others, If there's anything I'd change about GT in case Super will go on the retelling route again is: 1) the naked to almost fully dressed again SSJ 4 transformation (since when a power up gives one new clothes, wrist protectors & shoes?? it's not like Piccolo taught them the clothing beam..) & 2) the inclusion of the Para Para Brothers, they always seemed to me like a bunch of bad General Rildo sketches that were given the stupid dancing lust to milk the Ginyu Force act again (gyunyu pun intended).

BTW I also wanted to fix something in my L-O-N-G comment above: Majin Buu should also play a major part in the passing of End of Z and GT's retelling, since he's still a top level fighter in the Universal Scale, just not a "god". After founding the Majin race on Earth as stated in Dragon Ball Online he should be a main character in chilled episodes and a Z-Fighter at conflicts (trying to save Satan, Bee & his new family). I also don't want him to be permanently fused with Uub (Majuub should last only 1 hour like Vegetto works) after the Baby conflict but to be the "mentor" of the Majin Race/his descendants (who are more sapient than him) about the Earth's lifestyle.

Also, since I wanted there to be quite an amount of villains revived from hell (Frieza Force alone should be at least 10,000 men group to maintain Cold's family universal empire) in my Super 13 Saga, it'd be great to have all sort of guys from the past joining the battle for Earth's sake led by Pan & Uub, let's say: Yajirobe, Korin, Master Roshi (despite I still hate the fact he got casted to RoF while Yamcha & Chiaotzu sat it out), Android 18 (who came to avenge her twin brother, hoping to revive him later), Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu, Pilaf Gang, Nam, Bora & Upa, Giran, Android 8 (each to be fighting enemies on their tier). It may end with a gag of Jaco landing after the battles already over with Z-Fighters' victory, looking to tag along with no one but ruins around him, he comments on terror and realizes that he may be next if he'll stay there too long, he is about to enter his spaceship BUT suddenly Bulma (who just moments ago told Dende to contact the Namekians so Earth's casualties could be revived) appears behind him, slaps his head and begins shouting at him that he should have flied faster as the locals already took care of the problems without the "useless Galactic Patrol", much to his embarrassment (the Z-Fighters laugh along as Bulma keeps slapping him as he tries to get on his ship **, camera pans back to zoom out on the scene and surroundings and then moves up to the sky, where a glimpse of sunshine rays is shown, ending the saga & episode with an optimistic tone**).
Edit: Incorporating the Neko Majin Z interactions with the Dragon Ball cast into the passing of Z could be fun, even though having a Vegeta who can go SSJ and is getting orders by a long dead Frieza could be a thing needed to be fixed. Also borrowing ideas from Toriyama's interviews before DBS could be good - have an episode of how older age life is going on for Tien & Chiaotzu as farmers, romantic relationship with Lunch, Yamcha retires from being a long time baseball star and finds himself bored so he joins a nightclub as an host, but things aren't going so well there... etc.

[Cetra]

I would be so in for a GT remake.

[Lunaar]

I would be so in for a GT remake.

What a world we live in. xD I guess it's to be expected that a thread discussing how we would want to move on past EoZ would naturally boil down to what worked in GT and what didn't. It's like a river was set for us to be swept into.

If I had to pick something original (an idea never explored in GT, Online, etc) I'd really want to see a new young crew on their own journey, taking on foes akin to Avo and Cado. This would star Pan, Bra, Oob and Maron with Goten and Trunks in tow. Power scaling would be brought back way down from the god tier levels we've come to expect, so we don't need to lose tension. I think it would be really cute if an adult Gotenks showed up as a mysterious savior in hairy situations. For big fanservice moments, have Goku or Vegeta step in once or twice just to save everyone from being annihilated - but otherwise, keep them out of it. They have better stuff to do. ...like beating each other up.

And of course, address the elephant in the room - Oob. There is so much coolness to be explored with him. His ties to the galactic menace that was Majin Boo can be so much fun. He should form a bond with current Boo. Let him explore who he was before he was reincarnated, if a trip to space happens. I don't even have to explain it, everyone could fill in the blanks with their own great ideas by this point. He's a great blank slate to work with.

I have my own ideas on how the cast should be interpreted, but they're really based on nothing but how fun group dynamics should work in a shonen - not necessarily to fit on my own "head canon," though, you could argue I'm splitting hairs there. The Pan we know as a stubborn, mean and spoiled brat is not someone we should revisit. It goes without saying that with Super bringing her back, she has a chance to redeem herself should she ever take a spotlight again. Let her be meek like Gohan or reckless like Goku - I don't care which. She's Son Goku's granddaughter. We should all love her.

Bra and Maron are open books as far as I'm concerned. We'll need a brainiac and we'll need a smart aleck. I'll let you fill in those blanks.

[Basaku]

Those poles are hardly scientific and it's not exactly an objective statement anyway. I don't think they outshined Goku because he was still the main character. He's the icon.

They showcase huge popularity of non-Goku character. Polls (poles are living in Poland) are never perfectly accurate, but they show trends well. And no, in the end of Cell saga, Gohan was in main character position and that's how most view it, Toei/Toriyama included especially giving the start of next saga before Toriyama suddenly changed his mind.

You seem to have little interest in anything DB related prior to the Saiyan arc.

Oh, a "not a true DB fan unless you think DB is just as amazing as DBZ and totally as responsible for the series success" tactic? Sure, I can play too: and you seem to have little interest in anything not-focusing on Goku so I guess any mediocrity will satisfy you as long as it's more Goku fanservice

[ABED]

Those poles are hardly scientific and it's not exactly an objective statement anyway. I don't think they outshined Goku because he was still the main character. He's the icon.

They showcase huge popularity of non-Goku character. Polls (poles are living in Poland) are never perfectly accurate, but they show trends well. And no, in the end of Cell saga, Gohan was in main character position and that's how most view it, Toei/Toriyama included especially giving the start of next saga before Toriyama suddenly changed his mind.

You seem to have little interest in anything DB related prior to the Saiyan arc.

Oh, a "not a true DB fan unless you think DB is just as amazing as DBZ and totally as responsible for the series success" tactic? Sure, I can play too: and you seem to have little interest in anything not-focusing on Goku so I guess any mediocrity will satisfy you as long as it's more Goku fanservice

It wasn't a scientific poll. And plenty of writers change their mind when they realize their ideas aren't panning out as they had hoped. Gohan wasn't right to take over the spot.

This has nothing to do with you being a true fan, but everything to do with you dismissing what came before as though it never existed. If you like DB, you are a true fan, but you dismiss everything in your evaluation that is pre-Saiyan arc. Case in point, Super shows what happens when the series concentrates on Goku, but apparently, DB doesn't. DB is responsible for the success of the franchise. Without it, there is no DBZ since it's all the same thing. You are way off the mark when you claim I don't like anything not focused on Goku. How did you infer that from what I wrote?

[Basaku]

It wasn't a scientific pole. And plenty of writers change their mind when they realize their ideas aren't panning out as they had hoped. Gohan wasn't right to take over the spot.

Whether he was right to take over or not is subjective, not objective like you try to present it. Toriayma may have made a mistake, simple.

This has nothing to do with you being a true fan, but everything to do with you dismissing what came before as though it never existed.

Except that I didn't. But you ran out of arguments so you're trying to pull the true fan card.

You are way off the mark when you claim I don't like anything not focused on Goku. How did you infer that from what I wrote?

Same source you pulled my "no interest in anything before DBZ". Don't like people claiming what u think or don't? Don't do the same to others.

[ABED]

It wasn't a scientific pole. And plenty of writers change their mind when they realize their ideas aren't panning out as they had hoped. Gohan wasn't right to take over the spot.

Whether he was right to take over or not is subjective, not objective like you try to present it. Toriayma may have made a mistake, simple.

This has nothing to do with you being a true fan, but everything to do with you dismissing what came before as though it never existed.

Except that I didn't. But you ran out of arguments so you're trying to pull the true fan card.

You are way off the mark when you claim I don't like anything not focused on Goku. How did you infer that from what I wrote?

Same source you pulled my "no interest in anything before DBZ". Don't like people claiming what u think or don't? Don't do the same to others.

I didn't pull the true fan card. Not once did I use those words explicitly or implicitly. I never would as I think it's obnoxious. If you like something, you're a fan.

Except that I have much more reason to suspect taht you don't have interest in DB prior to DBZ, you never bring it up. You used Super as proof that focussing on Goku is bad for the story. You don't even bother bringing up the story prior to Raditz.

I think we should take this to another thread, this is going off topic and looks to be geting a little too heated.

[Basaku]

I didn't pull the true fan card. Not once did I use those words explicitly or implicitly. I never would as I think it's obnoxious. If you like something, you're a fan.

You tried it, playing it cute after ain't gonna work.

Except that I have much more reason to suspect taht you don't have interest in DB prior to DBZ, you never bring it up. You used Super as proof that focussing on Goku is bad for the story. You don't even bother bringing up the story prior to Raditz.

Why would I bring it up when discussing examples when ensemble cast and other characters taking the main spotlight? Everyone one knows DB had solely Goku in the driving seat. That's one. Two - DB didn't end on DB, it continued for FAR longer after and changed it irreversabily whether you like it or not. DB is not what the franchise primarly was any longer. I never said "DB was bad cause it focused on Goku". It was great, but it changed and evolved into something that resonated way bigger. And when it comes to writing a sequel 20 years after, yes it would simply be easier and safer to focus on the ensemble again than Goku. He's not the same character he was in DB, he's stale and fast becoming a caricature of his own tropes. With more characters involved, chances are greater for interesting character developement than focusing on 1 that has nothing ineteresting left to say.

[ABED]

I'm not playing it cute. I didn't say it or imply it. You are more than welcome to enjoy what you enjoy without having your fandom called into question. I never did and never would. I simply wondered why you never seem to take that era of the show when you are stating your opinion.

[TheGreatness25]

I would do an alternate telling of the last couple of episodes of Dragon Ball Z. I would keep it the same for nostalgia's sake, but do it from a different perspective. I'd have Goku and Goten meeting up with Vegeta, Bulma, and Trunks (the same way as it happened in Z). Then I'd have the Tenkaichi Budokai, but maybe show some wacky antics that Goku, Vegeta, and Pan end up doing that we didn't get to see. Then the fight between Goku and Oob and have Goku fly off. Then, I'd focus maybe 10-20 episodes on Goku and Oob, making it obvious that a lot of time is passing (Oob growing up a little more in each episode). Then, have the Earth be threatened again and just continue the story from there.

Since we took this leap that GT is an alternate side story, I would stay away from anything GT. No Baby, no Super Saiyan 4, no Goku into a little kid, no evil Shen Longs, none of that. Just keep the story going.

[ABED]

My preference would be to just end the story.

[Israelite Wolfman]

If there will be a retelling of GT, Toei should at least remove the tanned look Goku & Roshi got in the original run of this show. It looked weird as none of them was ever depicted with this pigment (I get it that back in the 1990s surfing culture and hitting the beach was a thing, but it's not an excuse to make them look ridiculous like they've been hitting the tanning booth for a few hours before being drawn for each episode). Again, Dragon Ball GT was a decent anime for it's own, it just fell short in comparison to it's two predecessors.