Was Super Saiyan 3 merely a fluke?

[ChiefWamsutta]

I look at SSJ3 as basically overclocking the SSJ form, trying to get as much power as possible before you blow out.

If SS < SS Grade 2 < SS Grade 3 < SS Grade 4 < SS2 < SS3 < SSRage

Then where would Furious SS2 go? Is that like an SS2 Grade 2 or not even a new form at all?!

[kinisking]

I look at SSJ3 as basically overclocking the SSJ form, trying to get as much power as possible before you blow out.

If SS < SS Grade 2 < SS Grade 3 < SS Grade 4 < SS2 < SS3 < SSRage

Then where would Furious SS2 go? Is that like an SS2 Grade 2 or not even a new form at all?!

I think it was just a rage boost and not an actual change to the form.

Some people have speculated that Vegeta kept the power and now has an improved ss2 due to his feats in the manga though.

[ChiefWamsutta]

I look at SSJ3 as basically overclocking the SSJ form, trying to get as much power as possible before you blow out.

If SS < SS Grade 2 < SS Grade 3 < SS Grade 4 < SS2 < SS3 < SSRage

Then where would Furious SS2 go? Is that like an SS2 Grade 2 or not even a new form at all?!

I think it was just a rage boost and not an actual change to the form.

Some people have speculated that Vegeta kept the power and now has an improved ss2 due to his feats in the manga though.

I would ask why you'd think it was only a rage boost. Is there a specific moment in the show that made you think this?

[s-shield]

I've always preferred to think of SSJ3 as something beyond impossible without "hacking" the system. Meaning: Goku was only able to achieve it because he was dead and couldn't die of exhaustion, and Gotenks was only able to do it because he was the result of fusion, meaning two bodies were carrying the burden.

I would rather no other character achieves this form, without some similar kind of "hack" to allow it.

[ChiefWamsutta]

I've always preferred to think of SSJ3 as something beyond impossible without "hacking" the system. Meaning: Goku was only able to achieve it because he was dead and couldn't die of exhaustion, and Gotenks was only able to do it because he was the result of fusion, meaning two bodies were carrying the burden.

I would rather no other character achieves this form, without some similar kind of "hack" to allow it.

Do you consider SS3 a Super Saiyan Grade 6 or do you think Furious SS2 should be the Super Saiyan Grade 6? Where would you put SS3 in terms of the grades?

[TheUltimateNinja]

Here's how I would rate things:
Grade 1: SSJ
Grade 2: ASSJ
Grade 3: USSJ
Grade 4: FPSSJ
Grade 5: SSJ2
Grade 6: SSJ3
Grade 7: FPSSJ2 (Trunks' form in the manga)
Grade 8: SSJ2 Mutation
Grade 9: SSRage

[SaiyanGod117]

Vegeta can go SSJ3 if he ever truly wanted to, since it's just a powerd up variation of SSJ and he's already surpassed that level of power in base. However there's no reason to, since he has aqcciured better transformation without the drawbacks, and just think about it real quick. If he can get to God level of power by training with Whis for 6 months, what's to say he can't get SSJ3 in even less time, but as I said already before. He essentially can do it right now since it's just powered up version of SSJ, for the reason why the kids can do so, is because the fusion grants them more potential as Gotenks. In addition them being explained as prodigies with even greater potential than Gohan in the Daizenshuu, plus they were training in the HTC so that helped them out a lot and with huge amount of raw power Gotenks had added on top. Gohan had that Ultimate Powerup where he could utilize all his power in base, so SSJ3 would be useless.

Now for in regards to Vegeta before the God power up, I'm a little split on the subject. On one side of the specturm, I think it would be possible for Vegeta to attain SSJ3, but it would be near the end of his prime. Than on other side I don't think it would be possible, because you need high energy reserves and Goku substantially more, because of being in the afterlife. Now for why neither Trunks or Vegeta opted for SSJ3, is because knew they would be granted more power, but at leisure of more drawbacks.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Here's how I would rate things:
Grade 1: SSJ
Grade 2: ASSJ
Grade 3: USSJ
Grade 4: FPSSJ
Grade 5: SSJ2
Grade 6: SSJ3
Grade 7: FPSSJ2 (Trunks' form in the manga)
Grade 8: SSJ2 Mutation
Grade 9: SSRage

I really like this a lot. I'd even go as far to say that Grade 10 will be the Legendary Super Saiyan form the female Broly will achieve. I think it could make sense.

Anyways, I never understood how they are called 'Grades' because Gohan went from Grade 1 immediately to Grade 4. Trunks went from Grade 4 to Grade 5 to Grade 7 to Grade 9. Vegeta went from Grade 4 to Grade 5 to Grade 8. Goku went from Grade 4 to Grade 5 to Grade 6.

I see it as:
SS Grade 1 to Grade 2 to Grade 3 to Grade 4
SS Grade 1 to Grade 2 to Grade 4
SS Grade 1 to Grade 4
SS Grade 4 to Grade 5
SS Grade 5 to Grade 6
SS Grade 5 to Grade 7
SS Grade 7 to Grade 8
SS Grade 8 to Grade 9

Goku and Vegeta probably unlocked Grade 7 by DBSuper, which is why Vegeta could go to Grade 8. It makes more sense than Grade 5 to 8. One could also argue that the strong SS2 form Goku fought Zamasu in was SS Grade 7, which would explain the huge power and Gowasu calling him "near God of Destruction." This has an answer in the anime that Goku used Grade 7 against Zamasu and Grade 6 against Trunks. This way you don't have all these confusing jumps of power for people.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Here's how I would rate things:
Grade 1: SSJ
Grade 2: ASSJ
Grade 3: USSJ
Grade 4: FPSSJ
Grade 5: SSJ2
Grade 6: SSJ3
Grade 7: FPSSJ2 (Trunks' form in the manga)
Grade 8: SSJ2 Mutation
Grade 9: SSRage

I really like this a lot. I'd even go as far to say that Grade 10 will be the Legendary Super Saiyan form the female Broly will achieve. I think it could make sense.

Anyways, I never understood how they are called 'Grades' because Gohan went from Grade 1 immediately to Grade 4. Trunks went from Grade 4 to Grade 5 to Grade 7 to Grade 9. Vegeta went from Grade 4 to Grade 5 to Grade 8. Goku went from Grade 4 to Grade 5 to Grade 6.

I see it as:
SS Grade 1 to Grade 2 to Grade 3 to Grade 4
SS Grade 1 to Grade 2 to Grade 4
SS Grade 1 to Grade 4
SS Grade 4 to Grade 5
SS Grade 5 to Grade 6
SS Grade 5 to Grade 7
SS Grade 7 to Grade 8
SS Grade 8 to Grade 9

Goku and Vegeta probably unlocked Grade 7 by DBSuper, which is why Vegeta could go to Grade 8. It makes more sense than Grade 5 to 8. One could also argue that the strong SS2 form Goku fought Zamasu in was SS Grade 7, which would explain the huge power and Gowasu calling him "near God of Destruction." This has an answer in the anime that Goku used Grade 7 against Zamasu and Grade 6 against Trunks. This way you don't have all these confusing jumps of power for people.

They most likely don't have Grade 7 in the manga judging by their reactions to Trunks using it, and Goku wouldn't waste energy on SSJ3 when FPSSJ2 is almost as good. And the nearly as strong as a GoD thing could be written off as Gowasu not properly comprehending the scale of a GoD's power since Goku should still be trash to Beerus even with Grade 7 considering the fact that even SSBlue Kaioken x10 is nowhere close and even Vegetto may be inferior to Beerus.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Here's how I would rate things:
Grade 1: SSJ
Grade 2: ASSJ
Grade 3: USSJ
Grade 4: FPSSJ
Grade 5: SSJ2
Grade 6: SSJ3
Grade 7: FPSSJ2 (Trunks' form in the manga)
Grade 8: SSJ2 Mutation
Grade 9: SSRage

I really like this a lot. I'd even go as far to say that Grade 10 will be the Legendary Super Saiyan form the female Broly will achieve. I think it could make sense.

Anyways, I never understood how they are called 'Grades' because Gohan went from Grade 1 immediately to Grade 4. Trunks went from Grade 4 to Grade 5 to Grade 7 to Grade 9. Vegeta went from Grade 4 to Grade 5 to Grade 8. Goku went from Grade 4 to Grade 5 to Grade 6.

I see it as:
SS Grade 1 to Grade 2 to Grade 3 to Grade 4
SS Grade 1 to Grade 2 to Grade 4
SS Grade 1 to Grade 4
SS Grade 4 to Grade 5
SS Grade 5 to Grade 6
SS Grade 5 to Grade 7
SS Grade 7 to Grade 8
SS Grade 8 to Grade 9

Goku and Vegeta probably unlocked Grade 7 by DBSuper, which is why Vegeta could go to Grade 8. It makes more sense than Grade 5 to 8. One could also argue that the strong SS2 form Goku fought Zamasu in was SS Grade 7, which would explain the huge power and Gowasu calling him "near God of Destruction." This has an answer in the anime that Goku used Grade 7 against Zamasu and Grade 6 against Trunks. This way you don't have all these confusing jumps of power for people.

They most likely don't have Grade 7 in the manga judging by their reactions to Trunks using it, and Goku wouldn't waste energy on SSJ3 when FPSSJ2 is almost as good. And the nearly as strong as a GoD thing could be written off as Gowasu not properly comprehending the scale of a GoD's power since Goku should still be trash to Beerus even with Grade 7 considering the fact that even SSBlue Kaioken x10 is nowhere close and even Vegetto may be inferior to Beerus.

Yeah, but Goku says that Zamasu could one day become as strong as Beerus. Grade 5 is around Kaioshin level, and if Goku was using that form then why would Gowasu compare him to being GoD level? Zamasu wouldn't be a prodigy then if he was Grade 5 level.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I really like this a lot. I'd even go as far to say that Grade 10 will be the Legendary Super Saiyan form the female Broly will achieve. I think it could make sense.

Anyways, I never understood how they are called 'Grades' because Gohan went from Grade 1 immediately to Grade 4. Trunks went from Grade 4 to Grade 5 to Grade 7 to Grade 9. Vegeta went from Grade 4 to Grade 5 to Grade 8. Goku went from Grade 4 to Grade 5 to Grade 6.

I see it as:
SS Grade 1 to Grade 2 to Grade 3 to Grade 4
SS Grade 1 to Grade 2 to Grade 4
SS Grade 1 to Grade 4
SS Grade 4 to Grade 5
SS Grade 5 to Grade 6
SS Grade 5 to Grade 7
SS Grade 7 to Grade 8
SS Grade 8 to Grade 9

Goku and Vegeta probably unlocked Grade 7 by DBSuper, which is why Vegeta could go to Grade 8. It makes more sense than Grade 5 to 8. One could also argue that the strong SS2 form Goku fought Zamasu in was SS Grade 7, which would explain the huge power and Gowasu calling him "near God of Destruction." This has an answer in the anime that Goku used Grade 7 against Zamasu and Grade 6 against Trunks. This way you don't have all these confusing jumps of power for people.

They most likely don't have Grade 7 in the manga judging by their reactions to Trunks using it, and Goku wouldn't waste energy on SSJ3 when FPSSJ2 is almost as good. And the nearly as strong as a GoD thing could be written off as Gowasu not properly comprehending the scale of a GoD's power since Goku should still be trash to Beerus even with Grade 7 considering the fact that even SSBlue Kaioken x10 is nowhere close and even Vegetto may be inferior to Beerus.

Yeah, but Goku says that Zamasu could one day become as strong as Beerus. Grade 5 is around Kaioshin level, and if Goku was using that form then why would Gowasu compare him to being GoD level? Zamasu wouldn't be a prodigy then if he was Grade 5 level.

Considering all the training he's done, Goku's SSJ2 should be somewhat close to his Buu Arc SSJ3 and only one Kaioshin that we know of is even close to that level, U7's southern Kaioshin. So given that Zamasu is getting close to that level and he hasn't even completed his training, he would definitely be considered a prodigy.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Considering all the training he's done, Goku's SSJ2 should be somewhat close to his Buu Arc SSJ3 and only one Kaioshin that we know of is even close to that level, U7's southern Kaioshin. So given that Zamasu is getting close to that level and he hasn't even completed his training, he would definitely be considered a prodigy.

Sometimes it's hard for me to grasp that there is no set range of power level where each form has to be within. Like, you could have someone's SS Grade 1 at the power level of SS Grade 6 for someone else because their bases are different.

Anyways, I'm curious on your opinion ... what do you believe are all the canon Super Saiyan forms currently?

[ChiefWamsutta]

I may be wrong, but I see the canon Saiyan forms as:

Base, Great Ape, Super Saiyan Grade 1-4, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, Improved Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 2 Mutation, Super Saiyan Rage, Ultimate, Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue, Super Saiyan Rose.

Base ---> Great Ape
Base ---> Super Saiyan
Super Saiyan ---> Super Saiyan Grade 2 ---> Super Saiyan Grade 3 ---> Super Saiyan Grade 4
Super Saiyan ---> Super Saiyan Grade 2 ---> Super Saiyan Grade 4
Super Saiyan ---> Super Saiyan Grade 4
Super Saiyan Grade 4 ---> Super Saiyan 2
Super Saiyan 2 ---> Super Saiyan 3
Super Saiyan 2 ---> Super Saiyan 2 Improved
Super Saiyan 2 ---> Super Saiyan 2 Mutation
Super Saiyan 2 Improved ---> Super Saiyan Rage
Base ---> Ultimate
Base ---> Super Saiyan God
Base ---> Super Saiyan Blue
Base ---> Super Saiyan Rose

I'd argue that the Super Saiyan form Goku had in DBS Ep. 14 right after he loses the red hair was Super Saiyan Blue just without the god ki that they unlock with Whis.

[OLKv3]

I don't think it's a fluke, just some otherwordly form. The only 2 characters to achieve it were a dead Saiyan and a magical being.