Is Akira Toriyama trying to make us hate Goku?

[GodVegetto91]

They really seem to be going to great lengths to make Goku as unlikeable as possible.

The countless dumb actions they made Goku do or say throughout Super, and now this whole thing.

They're trying to portray Goku as an extremely selfish character, that cares for nothing else than fighting, even to the extent that it means putting THE WHOLE MULTIVERSE at risk! I.E all of Existence. And now in the latest episode when the Omni-King showed up at the tournament in front of everyone, Goku litterally broke the silence and yelled "Zen-Chan!" in front of all the Gods and flew up to him casually talking to him and all.

I don't know about you guys, but do you think they are deliberately and specifically trying to make him unlikeable? Do you think they're trying to make a point?

Now i know that "Super's version of Goku" is the Version that Akira Toriyama prefers, and how he actually sees him. As opposed to this whole Superman/Hero type of Goku, which Toriyama specifically wasn't very fond of.. so this is actually "Toriyama's Goku" all the other Goku's throughout the history of Dragon Ball wasn't really the Goku Akira Toriyama 100% prefered.

What do you guys think? They seem to be going to great lengths afterall to make him as dumb and irresponsible as possible.

[Ki Breaker]

No, unless you hate manga version of goku too it's not the case..
And I like his manga version much better..

[IKevinX]

I think Goku is still the same as always. Think about it, Goku never had a true problem due to his stupidity. It was always fixed one way or another. So he kept being the same. I think we are finally heading to a place where it will have no return. But in Goku's mind, whatever problem that should arise from this tournament will get fixed by the Super Dragon Balls in his mind. This is a man who grow up with death and murder throughout his entire life so high stakes are basically his day to day basis.

But it also seems that Akira is going great lengths to make us forget the view Toei gave Goku being the righteous hero for the way Goku originaly was supposed to be. Since it's something he was bothered it.
And those of us who prefered Goku as the hero type feel cheated and sometimes these changes come as heartwrenching.

[GeeRod]

If you grew up with Superman Goku because of the english dub then yes, you'll hate Goku. Goku is originally selfish and fight for the sake of himself. He's no different in Super.

[namekiansaiyan]

Goku is the same as he has always been and even from the dub you can tell what kind of person he is.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

Just looking at the threads that are being made about Gokuu and its all pretty much the same, I'd say the director and whoever the hell are in charge of the planning are going in the right direction with the character. They're creating interest is what I mean.

Yeah, count me in with the people who think this story arc will be a Gokuu character arc. It'll either be him learning a lesson or something close to it. Even if it isn't I don't care. I do think Gokuu will look probably the coolest he has ever looked in a while. The OP is proof of that.

As for DBS Gokuu as a character, yes there's exaggeration and nobody should deny it. Some of his traits are exaggerated to an extreme level at times. I guess it's more of a producer issue than a Toriyama issue. Maybe it has something to do with marketing and stuff. It's all my guess though.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

What is the problem with the Zen-chan scene anyway? Seemed perfectly fine to me, Goku is their friends and he just wanted to thank him/them.

[PsionicWarrior]

Yeah, count me in with the people who think this story arc will be a Gokuu character arc. It'll either be him learning a lesson or something close to it.

It is indeed highly possible all this is made for him to learn a lesson and grow up a bit yes.
The annoying part is that he ALREADY grew up in Z, but if they are going there, meaning with a purpose on long term for the sake of character development I can forgive it better.
I have no trouble with Goku being closer to his DB counterpart than the Z one, but he's basically been a gag character in Super, which is imo a shame and not very well handled.

[GodVegetto91]

Perhaps i forgot to mention:

I personally don't mind it at all, and couldn't care less about how Goku is portrayed. I just take characters for how they are and that's it. I've never been that much of a Goku fan anyway, i was just generally speaking for how the general public/fans might be dissapointed, especially if they only know the english dub anime version of Goku. (The Superman Hero type)

Yes it's true that i'm only familiar with the english dub of anime Goku. But like i stated. I personally.. don't mind this. I think Goku is just a dumb child in an adults body, and by that i'm not offended nor dissapointed. I'm neutral towards it. And only focus on the good sides of him. (His strength and cool SSJ Forms)

[PsionicWarrior]

I think Goku is just a dumb child in an adults body

That's how he is in Super, but as selfish as he could be in Z at times, he never was dumb. Naive yes, dumb no. This is what is pissing off most of the fandom with him.

[Lujin_16]

I don't understand the hate i mean i'm okei with it because i know in fighting he is serious and if something crazy happens
with his family or friends he will fight serious....

he don't knows the true face of the Omniking that's why he acts like this and underestimate him because he looks and acts like a child but his
mind will change later

[Ki Breaker]

I don't understand the hate i mean i'm okei with it because i know in fighting he is serious and if something crazy happens
with his family or friends he will fight serious....

Because he has shit for Brain and can't say anything other than "I don't understand what you are sayyyyying" outside fighting..
That's irritating

[Chuquita]

It doesn't upset me so much as make me worry about Gokû's safety and the safety of those around him.

[TheMathemagician]

No, unless you hate manga version of goku too it's not the case..
And I like his manga version much better..

Honestly this. He really isn't all that much different than from how he was in the manga. Some will hate it, some won't. I personally have problems with it, but for the most part, I love Goku. I actually have been loving him more as the series progressed.

Just looking at the threads that are being made about Gokuu and its all pretty much the same, I'd say the director and whoever the hell are in charge of the planning are going in the right direction with the character. They're creating interest is what I mean.

Yeah, count me in with the people who think this story arc will be a Gokuu character arc. It'll either be him learning a lesson or something close to it. Even if it isn't I don't care. I do think Gokuu will look probably the coolest he has ever looked in a while. The OP is proof of that.

As for DBS Gokuu as a character, yes there's exaggeration and nobody should deny it. Some of his traits are exaggerated to an extreme level at times. I guess it's more of a producer issue than a Toriyama issue. Maybe it has something to do with marketing and stuff. It's all my guess though.

This too. Goku probably will look cooler than he's had been for a long time. I also like the fact that these discussions about Goku are coming up because with the way this saga seems to be structured at the moment, there'll be a lot of talks/threads about Goku around the internet good or bad.

Perhaps i forgot to mention:

I personally don't mind it at all, and couldn't care less about how Goku is portrayed. I just take characters for how they are and that's it. I've never been that much of a Goku fan anyway, i was just generally speaking for how the general public/fans might be dissapointed, especially if they only know the english dub anime version of Goku. (The Superman Hero type)

Yes it's true that i'm only familiar with the english dub of anime Goku. But like i stated. I personally.. don't mind this. I think Goku is just a dumb child in an adults body, and by that i'm not offended nor dissapointed. I'm neutral towards it. And only focus on the good sides of him. (His strength and cool SSJ Forms)

A majority of people will probably love Goku after this saga regardless of what happens. But yeah, the only real thing I get annoyed with in DBS with Goku is how Toei dumbs him down on occasions. It's the same for when they have Vegeta get jealous of Goku in Super, it just irritates me. But other than that, I don't really have a problem with Goku but yes, some of his characteristics (like other characters) gets exaggerated at times there's no denying that.

[Totamo]

There are moments Goku's character are exaggerated, not changed. Let me repeat that, Goku was always dumb, if you tell me throwing his 11 year old son against a powerful foe without telling him his plan and then giving said foe a senzu bean to make it fair with the fate of the world at stake was intelligent, then I don't think that word means what you think it means.

even if it was overconfident not dumb, he was still dumb to treat Gohan like himself and not talk to him about it.

but this isn't the first time where goku's character was exaggerated, funi did this with his selflessness and pueheart and toei made it look like goku's actions were far more noble.

Toriyama balanced it in ball, saiyan and freeza, but then goku gets inconsistent in the latter 2.


They are not trying to make us hate goku, there are simply showing more of the sides that anime watchers only see.

[Low Tone G]

I think Goku is just a dumb child in an adults body

That's how he is in Super, but as selfish as he could be in Z at times, he never was dumb. Naive yes, dumb no. This is what is pissing off most of the fandom with him.

I might regret to say this but he is a psychopath in Super... He's the worst dumb man-child in his day-to-day life, but when it comes to fighting he suddenly is able to use his mind in a way everyone(including me) would get shocked.

[Tsufuru]

imagin if they reveal that goku , when he did the god ritual felt to good gettin so much power so now he is drunk on power and more and more he gives less shits about what happens to others.

[PsionicWarrior]

I might regret to say this but he is a psychopath in Super... He's the worst dumb man-child in his day-to-day life, but when it comes to fighting he suddenly is able to use his mind in a way everyone(including me) would get shocked.

The thing is it's overdone, I always liked his naive nature but Super is REALLY overdoing it. Like I said, it went from the occasional laugh to the exclusive gag character outside of combat. I believe it is perfectly doable to keep his childish side like Toriyama wants without turning him into such a pain.

[Low Tone G]

I might regret to say this but he is a psychopath in Super... He's the worst dumb man-child in his day-to-day life, but when it comes to fighting he suddenly is able to use his mind in a way everyone(including me) would get shocked.

The thing is it's overdone, I always liked his naive nature but Super is REALLY overdoing it. Like I said, it went from the occasional laugh to the exclusive gag character outside of combat. I believe it is perfectly doable to keep his childish side like Toriyama wants without turning him into such a pain.

He is too simple in Super, they make him too predictable, they're turning him into a fan-fiction version of himself. Which is sad that they couldn't grasp his true person.

[TheMikado]

I'm actually looking forward to western and international audiences getting this point.

There is so much complaint about this is how Goku always was or its "true" to his origins.
Fine, Ill accept your premise but I will certainly be interesting to watch the casual fans and audience try to stomach this "original" Goku.
It's easy to say, that's how it should be anyway, but when large audiences of casual viewers are turned off by how a beloved character is portrayed, do you think they are really going to listen to anyone explain why Toei, or the dub royally screwed up their perceptions for years. We can continue to play the game where we act as if this is how the international audiences should have viewed him all along, however when it comes down to its legacy and success with casual crowd I've got a feeling the response wont be nearly as generous.