Pun? or translation error?

[SHINOBI-03]

Source: DBZ Dragon Box Episode 107. Gohan mentions being late due to "Juko School". Now watching enough school anime I know Juku school means cram or private school, but is there a reason why Steve Simmons left it untranslated or is there a pun I'm not aware of here? Or is it just a mistake?

[TheGreatness25]

I don't know. Either Dragon Ball made up a lot of words or Simmons didn't translate a lot. Like "gossari" or "Genki" for instance. Why leave them in? Maybe it feels "more Japanese" to keep in some untranslated words. Who knows?

[Cipher]

A juku school is a Japanese weekend cram school. Since it's a uniquely Japanese concept, Simmons left the term untranslated.

That would be one his earlier translations though, too, so who knows if he'd stand by that choice now.

[SHINOBI-03]

A juku school is a Japanese weekend cram school. Since it's a uniquely Japanese concept, Simmons left the term untranslated.

That would be one his earlier translations though, too, so who knows if he'd stand by that choice now.

Was this scene in Kai as well? If so, how did he translate it?

[Nejishiki]

Was this scene in Kai as well? If so, how did he translate it?

It's the same, exact translation around 11:53.

[Cure Dragon 255]

A juku school is a Japanese weekend cram school. Since it's a uniquely Japanese concept, Simmons left the term untranslated.

That would be one his earlier translations though, too, so who knows if he'd stand by that choice now.

I've defended Simmons in the past but this is ridiculous. NO ONE is going to get what that means,the purpose of a subtitle is to TRANSLATE. Its something even the most Yatsu Kisama Tachi would translate. There's not even a translation note to explain it. GOD. I know Translation Notes are verboten on Official Releases but GOD.

I'm so glad Simmons is past that. Someone said his Japanese improved, but what REALLY improved is his actual growth as a translator, ie genuinely TRANSLATING instead of "Oh this just cant be translated".

This is unforgiveable, not even the Weasel's Last Fart phrase comes close.

[Cure Dragon 255]

A juku school is a Japanese weekend cram school. Since it's a uniquely Japanese concept, Simmons left the term untranslated.

That would be one his earlier translations though, too, so who knows if he'd stand by that choice now.

I've defended Simmons in the past but this is ridiculous. NO ONE is going to get what that means,the purpose of a subtitle is to TRANSLATE. Its something even the most Yatsu Kisama Tachi would translate. There's not even a translation note to explain it. GOD. I know Translation Notes are verboten on Official Releases but GOD.

I'm so glad Simmons is past that. Someone said his Japanese improved, but what REALLY improved is his actual growth as a translator, ie genuinely TRANSLATING instead of "Oh this just cant be translated".

This is unforgiveable, not even the Weasel's Last Fart phrase comes close.

EDIT:Nejishiki that's not a video.

[DefinitiveDubs]

A juku school is a Japanese weekend cram school. Since it's a uniquely Japanese concept, Simmons left the term untranslated.

That would be one his earlier translations though, too, so who knows if he'd stand by that choice now.

I've defended Simmons in the past but this is ridiculous. NO ONE is going to get what that means,the purpose of a subtitle is to TRANSLATE. Its something even the most Yatsu Kisama Tachi would translate. There's not even a translation note to explain it. GOD. I know Translation Notes are verboten on Official Releases but GOD.

I'm so glad Simmons is past that. Someone said his Japanese improved, but what REALLY improved is his actual growth as a translator, ie genuinely TRANSLATING instead of "Oh this just cant be translated".

This is unforgiveable, not even the Weasel's Last Fart phrase comes close.

[Cipher]

I've defended Simmons in the past but this is ridiculous. NO ONE is going to get what that means,the purpose of a subtitle is to TRANSLATE. Its something even the most Yatsu Kisama Tachi would translate. There's not even a translation note to explain it. GOD. I know Translation Notes are verboten on Official Releases but GOD.

I mean, I don't think it's that bad. I'd definitely side with "cram school" myself, but that actually is a Japanese social construct without an exact equivalent abroad. I'd put it in roughly the same category as not translating the name of a Japanese holiday. I think it's a borderline acceptable case for treating it like a loan word.

You're right, though, that at the point where it would need a translator's note to identify an English-language equivalent so that most people will get the meaning, it might as well simply include that closest equivalent in the translation.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

This can't be real.

[Cure Dragon 255]

It isnt but its not far off from what other fansubs do.

[Cipher]

It isnt but its not far off from what other fansubs do.

Oh, thank god.

Yeah; I remember being peripherally aware of the embarrassing "nakama" kerfuffle that plagued the One Piece fanbase for years.

Then again, here we are in 2017 and it's all "ningen this, ningen that." The appeal of the exotic is strong. 仕方がないね。

[Faustus]

I urge anyone to please correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding from the sad two minutes browsing I've given this is that (for better or for worse; probably for the better) the "All according to Keikaku" embarrassment is very much real, deriving from one especially ridiculous 2007 Death Note fansub -- or somesuch.

[Cipher]

I urge anyone to please correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding from the sad two minutes browsing I've given this is that (for better or for worse; probably for the better) the "All according to Keikaku" embarrassment is very much real, deriving from one especially ridiculous 2007 Death Note fansub -- or somesuch.

Assuming that's real -- I really hope it isn't -- even so far as it's representative of some of the more questionable choices genuine fansubs have made, I've always wondered how you can learn enough Japanese to produce a somewhat accurate script, but still be so oblivious as to best-practice translation, or just, frankly, so culturally dense, as to leave stuff like that in under the justification that the vocabulary has some untranslatable special nuance in Japanese.

Again, this is leaving aside sticky situations like Japanese-specific social or cultural institutions or inventions -- the sorts of things that leave an arguable case for loan words.

You don't just wake up knowing advanced Japanese. All of these translators must at some point have gone through classes, put effort into learning it, etc., and still come away with the indefensible stance that a word like "nakama" deserves to be left untranslated. That's an embarrassing level of exotic fetishism, and one I really struggle to imagine anyone retaining as they actually learn about the language and culture.

Like, did the worst of the worst students from all my college Japanese classes somehow get better at it than me and go on to make fansubs for popular anime?

[Faustus]

"Exotic fetishism" is right. And as to why that might've survived the crucible of dedicated language learning with some people, all I'll say is that I have friends who've I imagine there's more than a few out there who've successfully applied themselves to learning Japanese with zero curiosity about culture of any sort and the one prospect of getting to watch anime in the original unencumbered by subtitles. Folks gotta have their animu, yo.

[SHINOBI-03]

To me Nakama is the worst offender because I got into One Piece a bit late and whenever they use Nakama I always get confused because I didn't know what the hell that was. A thing? A person? An object? A status? What is this word everybody keeps throwing at each other? It's only later that I knew what that is but it sure annoyed me how they never translated with the excuse of "but it'll lose its meaning" bullcrap.

On-topic: just because it's a thing more common to the Japanese that doesn't mean you don't translate it. You could use "Remedial school" for example. They are common here and I've been to them a lot during my school years because I was a dumb kid and a slow learner.

[Dbzfan94]

This is unforgiveable.

Exaggeration much?

[Cure Dragon 255]

Of course this is all said in a funny hyperbole of a rabid fan, dont take it too seriously.

[Cipher]

On-topic: just because it's a thing more common to the Japanese that doesn't mean you don't translate it. You could use "Remedial school" for example. They are common here and I've been to them a lot during my school years because I was a dumb kid and a slow learner.

Well, that's sort of the issue, in this case. Remedial school, to help students catch up with the pace of normal classes, isn't what a juku school is. They're cram schools for overachievers -- basically extra lessons outside the normal public school schedule, aimed at getting kids already succeeding to learn at an even faster pace. It's part of the test culture.

"Cram school" would suffice in this scenario, but again, it's a culturally specific institution rather than a non-culturally specific dictionary word, so I give it a bit more leeway than I would most untranslated phrases.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I was just about to say that. In Japan there are extra cram schools for children like that. Cram School is the best possible translation.

[LuckyCat]

In Japan there are extra cram schools for children like that. Cram School is the best possible translation.

The problem is, in the United States, cram schools have a pejorative connotation. In the U.S., typically the challenged students or repeat students are forced into cram schools. Simmons probably considered that cram schools wouldn't culturally fit a U.S. audience, since Japanese cram schools are inversely for advanced students or at least students striving to be advanced.