The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Ki Breaker]

Do you mean Beerus' technique that obliterates anything? I don't think Boo is immune to it.

Yeah that technique..
Can't he regenerate from atoms as well..
Unless berrus actually erases an entity from existence from hakai

Boo seems to be able to live in gaseous state, I don't know if he can be reduced to atoms and survive. I think Beerus' power works like you said.

Gas is a mixture of molecules though and atoms usually join together immediately to form molecules, more so if they are forced to be apart and were one in the first place, which should be the case for buu..

In any case, if berrus power does work lile that, buu loses

[Roronoa-pt]

Hakai vs Buu

Hakai obliterates Buu. The energy is so freaking strong that Buu has no chance to regenerate. Similiar to what Genki Dama did to Pure Buu.

[ahill1]

23rd Budokai Tenshinhan vs Young Piccolo Daimao

When showing his true speed, Tenshinhan passed to dominate weighted Goku, whose strength was considerably above his of 3 years ago, and the speed was the same, if not slightly above. Considering it, Tenshinhan low diff young Piccolo Daimao.

23rd Budokai Krillin vs Young Piccolo Daimao

I'd say Kuririn is still one or two steps below young Piccolo Daimao, considering he was surprised at Goku and Tenshinhan's fight, whose speed was more or less the same of young Piccolo. I'd say the bald midget would put up a good fight though, since he was able to surprise Piccolo Junior, forcing him to show more of his powers and warranting a "conquering this world won't be so easy" comment, and by the fact that he could still follow weighted Goku and Tenshinhan's initial movements.

Dead Grandpa Gohan vs 22nd Budokai Muten Roshi

Muten Roshi wins without problems. He was confident in winning the 22nd Budokai knowing Goku would have been training for 3 years, bringing up his "secret training", not to mention being able to evenly tangle with Tenshinhan, whom although not at full power, was still considerably stronger than Grandpa Gohan and Goku from three years ago.

[dragon boss z]

Saiyan Saga Goku Kaioken x3 (no drawbacks) vs Zarbon and Dodoria

Could go either way. If Zarbon transforms Goku definitely loses.

23rd Budokai Tenshinhan vs Young Piccolo Daimao

23rd Budokai Krillin vs Young Piccolo Daimao

Dead Grandpa Gohan vs 22nd Budokai Muten Roshi

Tien has the speed advantage, but if King Piccolo lands his city buster he would win. So it depends if Tein avoids that attack or not.

Krillin loses to King Piccolo.

Roshi beats Gohan. Imo even 21st Roshi would win if he got serious.

[mcdjbeatz]

23rd Budokai Tenshinhan vs Young Piccolo Daimao

23rd Budokai Krillin vs Young Piccolo Daimao

Dead Grandpa Gohan vs 22nd Budokai Muten Roshi

I don't believe that Tenshinhan surpassed Young Piccolo Daimao until the Saiyan Arc however I believe he is fairly close due to his performance against weighted Goku, I think Tenshinhan would win due to his techniques especially the kikoho.

Young Piccolo Daimao stomps, In my opinion Krillin didn't even surpass old Piccolo Daimao at that point in time

Roshi wins easily, he was close to Tenshinhan and Goku at the 22nd TB who were far above Grandpa Gohan

[dragonball0900]

23rd Budokai Tenshinhan vs Young Piccolo Daimao

23rd Budokai Krillin vs Young Piccolo Daimao

Dead Grandpa Gohan vs 22nd Budokai Muten Roshi

1. Tenshinhan takes this, since he was able to surpass in speed to a Weighted Goku who had the speed of King Piccolo. Meaning that Tenshinhan also surpasses King Piccolo in strenght.

2. King Piccolo wins. Considering that Krillin was amazed at Goku and Tien's suppressed speed (before Tien used his full speed) who were on the same league as King Piccolo. And I doubt Piccolo was that much below Tien. But Krillin would still be able to make a great fight with King Piccolo, at least with Krillin in DBZ (at 206).

3. Roshi takes it since he's on a different league (the only ones that surpass him are Tien and Goku). He's above Krillin and Yamcha, who are above Chappa, who is above Goku (post Korin), who is somewhat above Grandpa Gohan.

[dragon boss z]

23rd Budokai Tenshinhan vs Young Piccolo Daimao

23rd Budokai Krillin vs Young Piccolo Daimao

Dead Grandpa Gohan vs 22nd Budokai Muten Roshi

1. Tenshinhan takes this, since he was able to surpass in speed to a Weighted Goku who had the speed of King Piccolo. Meaning that Tenshinhan also surpasses King Piccolo in strenght.

2. King Piccolo wins. Considering that Krillin was amazed at Goku and Tien's suppressed speed (before Tien used his full speed) who were on the same league as King Piccolo. And I doubt Piccolo was that much below Tien. But Krillin would still be able to make a great fight with King Piccolo, at least with Krillin in DBZ (at 206).

3. Roshi takes it since he's on a different league (the only ones that surpass him are Tien and Goku). He's above Krillin and Yamcha, who are above Chappa, who is above Goku (post Korin), who is somewhat above Grandpa Gohan.

1. Being faster doesn't mean stronger. Tien even said he worked on his speed. Burter is a good example of someone with high speed. BOZ Tien has a power level of 250. The Daizenshuu put King Piccolo at 260.

3. Chappa is not stronger than Gohan or post Korin Goku. You actually think Chappa is above Tao? Tao would kill him with his tongue.

[TheUltimateNinja]

23rd Budokai Tenshinhan vs Young Piccolo Daimao

23rd Budokai Krillin vs Young Piccolo Daimao

Dead Grandpa Gohan vs 22nd Budokai Muten Roshi

1. Tenshinhan takes this, since he was able to surpass in speed to a Weighted Goku who had the speed of King Piccolo. Meaning that Tenshinhan also surpasses King Piccolo in strenght.

2. King Piccolo wins. Considering that Krillin was amazed at Goku and Tien's suppressed speed (before Tien used his full speed) who were on the same league as King Piccolo. And I doubt Piccolo was that much below Tien. But Krillin would still be able to make a great fight with King Piccolo, at least with Krillin in DBZ (at 206).

3. Roshi takes it since he's on a different league (the only ones that surpass him are Tien and Goku). He's above Krillin and Yamcha, who are above Chappa, who is above Goku (post Korin), who is somewhat above Grandpa Gohan.

1. Being faster doesn't mean stronger. Tien even said he worked on his speed. Burter is a good example of someone with high speed. BOZ Tien has a power level of 250. The Daizenshuu put King Piccolo at 260.

3. Chappa is not stronger than Gohan or post Korin Goku. You actually think Chappa is above Tao? Tao would kill him with his tongue.

3. Chappa is definitely above Gohan, everyone gets worried when Goku has to face him first even though they know he beat Tao and the entire Red Ribbon Army by himself. They even saw his power personally in the Uranai Baba Arc. Chappa is far above Tao.

[DanielSSJ]

3. Chappa is definitely above Gohan, everyone gets worried when Goku has to face him first even though they know he beat Tao and the entire Red Ribbon Army by himself. They even saw his power personally in the Uranai Baba Arc. Chappa is far above Tao.

I dunno, I always assumed that everyone was worrying about Goku fighting Chappa because of his fearsome reputation rather than any firsthand knowledge. After all, Ki sensing wasn't really a thing back then. I'd personally put him a little higher than Akkuman, but that's about it. And they didn't know Goku beat Taopaipai until after the 22nd Tournament started in full, and that revelation is still treated as being a big deal even after Goku trounced Chappa, which implies Taopaipai is stronger.

[Ki Breaker]

Naam vs Mr satan

[TheUltimateNinja]

Naam vs Mr satan

Satan gets obliterated.

Nam > Beginning of DB Goku > Videl > Mr Satan

[dragonball0900]

1. Being faster doesn't mean stronger. Tien even said he worked on his speed. Burter is a good example of someone with high speed. BOZ Tien has a power level of 250. The Daizenshuu put King Piccolo at 260.

We don't know if here is the same case as later in the series. Yes, Tien said he worked in his speed, but he was comparing Goku's speed with his. He was saying that Goku didn't change at all in his speed, only his strenght. Tien was comparing himself to Goku, which is possible that Tien's speed can also be the same as his strenght. Also, a speed like that should be enough to defeat King Piccolo

The Daizenshuu's 260 number is completely wrong, like the 180 number from Tien and Goku. Yamcha is 177 in BOZ, and we know that Yamcha can't be weaker than 22nd Goku if that Goku can't even see Old King Piccolo's movements, yet Yamcha can see Young King Piccolo's movements in the 23rd Budokai.

3. Chappa is not stronger than Gohan or post Korin Goku. You actually think Chappa is above Tao? Tao would kill him with his tongue.

I dunno, I always assumed that everyone was worrying about Goku fighting Chappa because of his fearsome reputation rather than any firsthand knowledge. After all, Ki sensing wasn't really a thing back then. I'd personally put him a little higher than Akkuman, but that's about it. And they didn't know Goku beat Taopaipai until after the 22nd Tournament started in full, and that revelation is still treated as being a big deal even after Goku trounced Chappa, which implies Taopaipai is stronger.

The reason Chappa was there was to show Goku's improvement. Roshi even said "let's see how much Goku has improved". It wouldn't make any sense to put a fighter around Akkuman's strenght if they clearly saw Goku's strenght against him. If they saw Goku beating Akkuman easily, and got worried about Chappa against Goku, then Chappa is clearly above Akkuman. They knew Goku's strenght, yet they had full doubts about him beating Chappa. I'd say the Goku from 3 years ago wouldn't be able to defeat Chappa, even if they make a great fight.

With Tao Pai Pai, reading the manga, they were more focused on Tao's relation with Tsuru, and also about how Goku killed Tsuru's brother, and it was a big deal since he was a close person to Tsuru and his pupils. It was also a big deal since it was a good justify for Tsuru wanting his pupils to kill Roshi's pupils.

Chappa is clearly stronger than people think he is actually.

Naam vs Mr satan

Nam beats Mr Satan easily.

[DBZ Macky]

Chappa is definitely above Gohan, everyone gets worried when Goku has to face him first even though they know he beat Tao and the entire Red Ribbon Army by himself. They even saw his power personally in the Uranai Baba Arc. Chappa is far above Tao.

What you've said is definitely a viable interpretation. In fact, I'm pretty sure anyone who paid attention to most of the power-related statements would think the same about Chappa's power.

Though the way I've chosen to interpret it is this:
Chapa-o doesn't need to be stronger than Gohan, but he's still on par with him. He's definitely a formidable opponent and Goku would definitely be out of luck if he hadn't improved as much as he did. He would be unlucky enough to face an opponent almost as strong as him with greater battle experience and arguably superior techniques in a match with limited time. Even if Goku got lucky enough to survive against him and even if he gained the slight upper hand, Chappa would still not go down easily. Worst case scenario: The time limit is exceeded and both fighters are disqualified.

Though I'll openly admit that I'm biased towards Tao and by extension, Gohan.

[dragon boss z]

1. Tenshinhan takes this, since he was able to surpass in speed to a Weighted Goku who had the speed of King Piccolo. Meaning that Tenshinhan also surpasses King Piccolo in strenght.

2. King Piccolo wins. Considering that Krillin was amazed at Goku and Tien's suppressed speed (before Tien used his full speed) who were on the same league as King Piccolo. And I doubt Piccolo was that much below Tien. But Krillin would still be able to make a great fight with King Piccolo, at least with Krillin in DBZ (at 206).

3. Roshi takes it since he's on a different league (the only ones that surpass him are Tien and Goku). He's above Krillin and Yamcha, who are above Chappa, who is above Goku (post Korin), who is somewhat above Grandpa Gohan.

1. Being faster doesn't mean stronger. Tien even said he worked on his speed. Burter is a good example of someone with high speed. BOZ Tien has a power level of 250. The Daizenshuu put King Piccolo at 260.

3. Chappa is not stronger than Gohan or post Korin Goku. You actually think Chappa is above Tao? Tao would kill him with his tongue.

3. Chappa is definitely above Gohan, everyone gets worried when Goku has to face him first even though they know he beat Tao and the entire Red Ribbon Army by himself. They even saw his power personally in the Uranai Baba Arc. Chappa is far above Tao.

They couldn't sense power levels back then. They just knew he was dangerous by reputation. And you might as well say Pui Pui is stronger than Frieza because supreme Kai didn't know if Goku cold beat him alone. And Tao came back in the 23rd tournament, same with Chappa. Tao was clearly shown to be the more dangerous one.

[dragon boss z]

1. Being faster doesn't mean stronger. Tien even said he worked on his speed. Burter is a good example of someone with high speed. BOZ Tien has a power level of 250. The Daizenshuu put King Piccolo at 260.

We don't know if here is the same case as later in the series. Yes, Tien said he worked in his speed, but he was comparing Goku's speed with his. He was saying that Goku didn't change at all in his speed, only his strenght. Tien was comparing himself to Goku, which is possible that Tien's speed can also be the same as his strenght. Also, a speed like that should be enough to defeat King Piccolo

The Daizenshuu's 260 number is completely wrong, like the 180 number from Tien and Goku. Yamcha is 177 in BOZ, and we know that Yamcha can't be weaker than 22nd Goku if that Goku can't even see Old King Piccolo's movements, yet Yamcha can see Young King Piccolo's movements in the 23rd Budokai.

3. Chappa is not stronger than Gohan or post Korin Goku. You actually think Chappa is above Tao? Tao would kill him with his tongue.

The reason Chappa was there was to show Goku's improvement. Roshi even said "let's see how much Goku has improved". It wouldn't make any sense to put a fighter around Akkuman's strenght if they clearly saw Goku's strenght against him. If they saw Goku beating Akkuman easily, and got worried about Chappa against Goku, then Chappa is clearly above Akkuman. They knew Goku's strenght, yet they had full doubts about him beating Chappa. I'd say the Goku from 3 years ago wouldn't be able to defeat Chappa, even if they make a great fight.

With Tao Pai Pai, reading the manga, they were more focused on Tao's relation with Tsuru, and also about how Goku killed Tsuru's brother, and it was a big deal since he was a close person to Tsuru and his pupils. It was also a big deal since it was a good justify for Tsuru wanting his pupils to kill Roshi's pupils.

Chappa is clearly stronger than people think he is actually.

1. Tien mentioning Goku got stronger, but not faster, and how he worked his speed is clear evidence different stats can be changed. It's possible Tien's power level could of surpassed King Piccolo's, but there is nothing to prove it.
22nd Goku could see Old King Piccolo's movements. He even landed some hits. And the only hit Yamcha could get on Kami was a surprise attack. He wasn't able to dodge or see any of Kami's moves and Kami wasn't even serious.

3. Chappa thought it was impressive to make it look like he had 8 arms. That kind of feat is laughable to Tao and Gohan. And Tien thought it would be impossible for someoen like Goku to kill Tao, even though Goku already beat Chappa at that point. And Chappa and Tao were both in the 23rd tournament, and Tao was represented to be stronger than Chappa.
Saying Chappa is stronger than Tao because of those statements is like saying Pui Pui is stronger than Frieza because of the supreme Kai's statements.

[dragonball0900]

1. Tien mentioning Goku got stronger, but not faster, and how he worked his speed is clear evidence different stats can be changed. It's possible Tien's power level could of surpassed King Piccolo's, but there is nothing to prove it.
22nd Goku could see Old King Piccolo's movements. He even landed some hits. And the only hit Yamcha could get on Kami was a surprise attack. He wasn't able to dodge or see any of Kami's moves and Kami wasn't even serious.

3. Chappa thought it was impressive to make it look like he had 8 arms. That kind of feat is laughable to Tao and Gohan. And Tien thought it would be impossible for someoen like Goku to kill Tao, even though Goku already beat Chappa at that point. And Chappa and Tao were both in the 23rd tournament, and Tao was represented to be stronger than Chappa.
Saying Chappa is stronger than Tao because of those statements is like saying Pui Pui is stronger than Frieza because of the supreme Kai's statements.

1. I don't think it's possible for Tien's strenght and speed to be in very different gaps. Tien was clearly dominating Goku in speed. If we assume by your logic that King Piccolo is 260 and Tien 250, then a weaker Tien (let's say a 230) was very different in gap to his speed which is above King Piccolo's strenght. Tien had changed in both speed and strenght, since he did say that both are essential.

Also, read well my post, I didn't say Yamcha can see Kami's moviments, I said Yamcha can see movements that are equal to King Piccolo's, Weighted Goku's movements is what I am talking about. Goku landed hits on him before Old King Piccolo got more serious. After that he got completely stomped.

2. Tien never saw Goku beating Chappa, at least in the manga I don't see any panel showing Tien watching Goku's fight with Chappa. Even Roshi said he was going to be in trouble with Goku after seeing Goku vs Chappa. You are also confusing Mercenary Tao with Cyborg Tao. Cyborg Tao was stated to be far stronger than his previous self. That's why he's obviously stronger than Chappa.

There's a difference between both cases you mentioned. Both Yamcha and Roshi knew about Chappa's reputation and his gains and feats in the tournaments, they also knew how strong Goku was 3 years ago, and they also knew he would improve in his training for the next Budokai, yet they are worried about Goku losing against Chappa. In the case of Supreme Kai, he didn't really know that much about the saiyans' power, and he also didn't know much about Pui Pui, only that he's a strong guy, that's all.

[dragon boss z]

1. I don't think it's possible for Tien's strenght and speed to be in very different gaps. Tien was clearly dominating Goku in speed. If we assume by your logic that King Piccolo is 260 and Tien 250, then a weaker Tien (let's say a 230) was very different in gap to his speed which is above King Piccolo's strenght. Tien had changed in both speed and strenght, since he did say that both are essential.

Also, read well my post, I didn't say Yamcha can see Kami's moviments, I said Yamcha can see movements that are equal to King Piccolo's, Weighted Goku's movements is what I am talking about. Goku landed hits on him before Old King Piccolo got more serious. After that he got completely stomped.

2. Tien never saw Goku beating Chappa, at least in the manga I don't see any panel showing Tien watching Goku's fight with Chappa. Even Roshi said he was going to be in trouble with Goku after seeing Goku vs Chappa. You are also confusing Mercenary Tao with Cyborg Tao. Cyborg Tao was stated to be far stronger than his previous self. That's why he's obviously stronger than Chappa.

There's a difference between both cases you mentioned. Both Yamcha and Roshi knew about Chappa's reputation and his gains and feats in the tournaments, they also knew how strong Goku was 3 years ago, and they also knew he would improve in his training for the next Budokai, yet they are worried about Goku losing against Chappa. In the case of Supreme Kai, he didn't really know that much about the saiyans' power, and he also didn't know much about Pui Pui, only that he's a strong guy, that's all.

1. Tien practically admits he didn't surpass Goku's strength from back then.



And Bulma was watching SSB Goku fight Golden Frieza. Using people watching the fight to justify how strong they are is unreliable.

2. Roshi didn't know Goku beat Tao at that point. When he herd Goku beat Tao he was completely surprised Goku could do that even though he already saw Goku easily beat Chappa.

[dragonball0900]

1. Tien practically admits he didn't surpass Goku's strength from back then.

And Bulma was watching SSB Goku fight Golden Frieza. Using people watching the fight to justify how strong they are is unreliable.

2. Roshi didn't know Goku beat Tao at that point. When he herd Goku beat Tao he was completely surprised Goku could do that even though he already saw Goku easily beat Chappa.

1. I think Tien was more referencing about back then, when he "thought" his strenght was unmatched. It doesn't mean that he was surpassed by Goku.
Also, DBS is not like here and in Z, you can see a recently made thread here about "characters' speed" with the topic being discussed. It just doesn't make sense for Bulma to be able to watch that fight. I think DBS did contradict it a lot here. Z does this too, but mostly on filler in anime.

2. I guess the points contradict each other here, since I highly doubt Chappa was below Goku (Korin) if Roshi said Goku's fight with Chappa was going to be tough, even when he saw his strenght years ago. Roshi even said he was going to be in trouble with Goku after seeing him defeating Chappa. If Chappa was around... let's say, Akkuman's strenght, Roshi wouldn't even have said that, since he was confident in defeating Goku after seeing his strenght 3 years ago. Roshi obviously thinks Goku improved from the last 3 years, yet again he was worried about Chappa giving him a tough fight.

Post Korin Goku < 22nd Budokai Goku (Roshi's previous expectations) = Chappa < Roshi

Roshi being surprised of Goku beating Tao contradicts the previous statements, maybe Roshi didn't know about Tao's strenght. But there's more evidence for Chappa to be stronger than Tao than the other way round.

[Almighty Majin]

1. Kaioken x20 Tiencha (Buu Saga) vs Perfect Cell
2. Super Saiyan Bardock vs Piccolo (fused with Nail)
3. Current Gohan vs Magetta
Bonus: Giant Snake that fought Goten and Trunks vs Freeza's Army from the Namek Saga

[dragon boss z]

1. Tien practically admits he didn't surpass Goku's strength from back then.

And Bulma was watching SSB Goku fight Golden Frieza. Using people watching the fight to justify how strong they are is unreliable.

2. Roshi didn't know Goku beat Tao at that point. When he herd Goku beat Tao he was completely surprised Goku could do that even though he already saw Goku easily beat Chappa.

1. I think Tien was more referencing about back then, when he "thought" his strenght was unmatched. It doesn't mean that he was surpassed by Goku.
Also, DBS is not like here and in Z, you can see a recently made thread here about "characters' speed" with the topic being discussed. It just doesn't make sense for Bulma to be able to watch that fight. I think DBS did contradict it a lot here. Z does this too, but mostly on filler in anime.

2. I guess the points contradict each other here, since I highly doubt Chappa was below Goku (Korin) if Roshi said Goku's fight with Chappa was going to be tough, even when he saw his strenght years ago. Roshi even said he was going to be in trouble with Goku after seeing him defeating Chappa. If Chappa was around... let's say, Akkuman's strenght, Roshi wouldn't even have said that, since he was confident in defeating Goku after seeing his strenght 3 years ago. Roshi obviously thinks Goku improved from the last 3 years, yet again he was worried about Chappa giving him a tough fight.

Post Korin Goku < 22nd Budokai Goku (Roshi's previous expectations) = Chappa < Roshi

Roshi being surprised of Goku beating Tao contradicts the previous statements, maybe Roshi didn't know about Tao's strenght. But there's more evidence for Chappa to be stronger than Tao than the other way round.

1. I agree Tien may of been around Goku's strength when he fought King Piccolo, but that still doesn't mean he has the same raw power as King Piccolo had. Even Goku couldn't bust cities like King Piccolo did. Or at least if he could it was never shown. Yajirobe even said it was amazing Goku could beat a guy who can destroy a city.
And with the watching fight thing, that really shouldn't be used to demonstrate strength because Toriyama is not even be thinking of things like that. He doesn't try and think who should be able to see and who shouldn't based on prior events, unless it is really obvious.

2. That was just a throwaway line like I said. Just like Supreme Kai's line about Pui Pui and Yakkon. Imo neither one of them are stornger than Frieza, especially Pui Pui. And then you have the line from Roshi that implies he thinks Tao is stronger than Chappa, and Tao has better feats. I'm also 99% sure Toriyama would have Tao win in a fight.