The General Fan Theory Thread

[floofychan333]

OK, to start off, after being on Kanzenshuu for about a year, I've seen many things commented on, but surprisingly few fan theories. Here I'll start a thread for fan theories.

My theory: Anthropomorphic animals either have a sharply declining birthrate or have been subjected to a genocide or two. We see them constituting 17% of the population in the beginning, and once Piccolo shows up they slowly decline until they're practically extinct by the end of Z. I know that people say they disappeared because of the series' tone change, but I still want there to be an in-universe explanation. And yes, somebody is surely going to say King Furry is an animal but even the most powerful individual on Earth can't stop certain crimes against humanity (or animalia or whatever, to be exact). All I can infer is, he certainly didn't order a genocide against his own people. My explanation for the low birth rates is somewhat obvious: since many species are anthropomorphized and each species can only reproduce with its own species, the animals struggle to keep a pure population of their own species alive.

I hope to see your fan theories here!

[Gog]

My theory: Freeza's forms contrary to popular belief are not suppression's, but rather augmentations. The theory also makes King Cold's and Chilled's predicament make sense, as King Cold never ascended above the second form and Chilled never even had the chance for the forms, as he never had the transformation genes in the first place.

[nickzambuto]

My theory: Freeza's forms contrary to popular belief are not suppression's, but rather augmentations. The theory also makes King Cold's and Chilled's predicament make sense, as King Cold never ascended above the second form and Chilled never even had the chance for the forms, as he never had the transformation genes in the first place.

Unfortunately it's specified that Freeza's final form is his true form.

[Saturnine]

Due to being entrenched in my pro-science stance, I definitely prefer the term "hypothesis" to "theory".

My hypothesis is that FPSSj is just as powerful as USSJ, and therefore either a multiplier greater than 50x, or at the very least greater than an untrained Super Saiyan.

[s-shield]

The Toriyama story KAJIKA takes place in the past of the Dragon Ball world. After the story ends, eventually the hero Kajika, who comes from a culture resembling the Native Americans, finds his way to Korin Tower and eventually becomes it's guardian. His descendants are Bora and Upa.

[s-shield]

The "Legend" of the Super Saiyan is just that. Goku invents the Super Saiyan transformation as we know it. It is a combination of Kaio-Ken (explaining it being a multiplier) and him trying to copy whatever it is Freeza's ki is doing when he transforms, which Goku has felt him do three times at this point. He learned how to transform after feeling Freeza do it, just like how he learned the Kamehameha after watching Roshi do it. Super Saiyan is basically a sustained/mastered Kaio-Ken.

[Gog]

My theory: Freeza's forms contrary to popular belief are not suppression's, but rather augmentations. The theory also makes King Cold's and Chilled's predicament make sense, as King Cold never ascended above the second form and Chilled never even had the chance for the forms, as he never had the transformation genes in the first place.

Unfortunately it's specified that Freeza's final form is his true form.

One it's a fan theory. Two Did you not read the rest of the fan theory?


And so what Freeza stated it? Have you not stopped to question the fact that what we see in the franchise just straight up contradicts what he says time and time again. Have you stopped to think, geez it seems that King Cold and Chilled don't seem to be able to transform? And King Cold isn't in his true form, as we've seen the apparent true form, three times and it looks nothing with what King Cold and Chilled looks like.

But of course Freeza stated that the forms were suppression's and even though future events throw what he has stated into doubt. Freeza stated it and so that must mean he's right in a franchise that has a retcon every week.

But hey that's just a theory.
--
A fan theory!

Thanks for reading!

[nickzambuto]

My theory: Freeza's forms contrary to popular belief are not suppression's, but rather augmentations. The theory also makes King Cold's and Chilled's predicament make sense, as King Cold never ascended above the second form and Chilled never even had the chance for the forms, as he never had the transformation genes in the first place.

Unfortunately it's specified that Freeza's final form is his true form.

One it's a fan theory. Two Did you not read the rest of the fan theory?


And so what Freeza stated it? Have you not stopped to question the fact that what we see in the franchise just straight up contradicts what he says time and time again. Have you stopped to think, geez it seems that King Cold and Chilled don't seem to be able to transform? And King Cold isn't in his true form, as we've seen the apparent true form, three times and it looks nothing with what King Cold and Chilled looks like.

But of course Freeza stated that the forms were suppression's and even though future events throw what he has stated into doubt. Freeza stated it and so that must mean he's right in a franchise that has a retcon every week.

But hey that's just a theory.
--
A fan theory!

Thanks for reading!

Uh... okay.

[nickzambuto]

The "Legend" of the Super Saiyan is just that. Goku invents the Super Saiyan transformation as we know it. It is a combination of Kaio-Ken (explaining it being a multiplier) and him trying to copy whatever it is Freeza's ki is doing when he transforms, which Goku has felt him do three times at this point. He learned how to transform after feeling Freeza do it, just like how he learned the Kamehameha after watching Roshi do it. Super Saiyan is basically a sustained/mastered Kaio-Ken.

Now THAT is a good theory!

[Dorexx]

My view about talking/humanoid animals, dinosaurs and other wacky creatures walking the Earth is that they are a result of advanced genetic engineering technology, and the explanation for their disappearance is that maybe it just stopped being a trend or something. I also add in the possibility that some of these people may actually be evolved animals, others could be aliens or a mix (I believe aliens visited Earth long before the saiyans), or demons. (or a mix)

All things considered, DB Earth is definitely a future version of either our Earth or one similiar to it.

I believe the moon has been terraformed (to some extent; also something that might probably happen in the future), which is why Boss Rabbit and his men could survive on it.

Also about the moon, I don't believe Muten Roshi and Piccolo had the strength (literally) to destroy it, but they somehow unleashed a force which led to its destruction, in a similar sense how you can destroy a forest with a match. Maybe that's not the best comparison. In the anime, Piccolo does this again at one point when he is meditating. He apparently unleashes a force that is beyond his control and is causing earthquakes and destruction.

My theory about why Crane invented the flying technique: when Roshi received Kinto'un from Karin, he went to show it to Crane, and Crane fell through it. Envious and consumed by rage, he swore to create a flying method thousands of times better than the cloud. Earlier in his experiments he developed the ability to fly on certain objects by controlling them with ki, which his brother Tao picked up and still uses to this day, and then finally developed the ability to just fly by yourself. With ki.

Penguin Village doesn't exist on DB Earth (literally). What does exist there is a wormhole to the Dr. Slump universe.

In the Majin Buu arc when #17 gives energy to Goku he claims it's been a long time since he heard Goku's voice, even though he apparently never met him before. The out-of-universe explanation is that this line was intended for Lunch. A plausible in-universe explanation is that he heard Goku's voice in recordings from Dr. Gero, but another one is that he actually did meet him. #17 may have still been alive inside Cell just like #18 was, and then died when Cell exploded on Kaio's planet. Since he died there, he would've been brought back to life there. Maybe he ran into dead Goku and Kaio, talked a bit, then Goku zapped him to Earth.

The reason why they couldn't use the namekian dragon balls in Trunks' timeline is because Cooler and the Gete Star ate the namekians, and probably took or unknowingly destroyed the dragon balls along with them and their world. He wasn't stopped in this timeline because the Z Warriors were (obviously) killed by #17 and #18, and virus.

In the anime, the reason Freeza is roaming free and causing trouble in hell instead of being imprisoned in a cocoon that's hanging from a tree is simple: Cell released him. Strong measures were probably taken to make sure Freeza is held there good and tight, but whatever they were, Cell was the first guy strong enough to set him free. After Paikuhan beat them, he went back, but was allowed to get out one more time to witness the most titanic battle in history taking place. And I guess when Janemba messed up all reality. And when Dr. Gero and Myuu set him free again.

One time, I also caught myself thinking that Baba might actually be dead herself, and part of the reason she wears that hat is to hide her halo.

Majin Buu is a ghost. A solidified/humanoid ghost. Try to imagine a really blurry Super Buu. I think when Toriyama designed him, he drew a simple flame-like ghost, then made it humanoid, but not entirely. This is why he has the pointy antenna on his head, a wide neck, glove-like hands and, of course, black eyes. As for why he is pink instead of white, I don't know, but that ghost from Baba's palace was also pink.

Karin is a shape-shifter. He takes on the appearence of a goofy cat as some sort of test for the people that visit him. If they see a weird goofy cat some people might not take him seriously. Maybe originally he is an old man as depicted in the anime when Bora told Goku about him before he climbed the tower.

Ginyu is what Freeza would look like if he had a form even below the first one we see him in.

There are roads from Enma's palace to all the four Kaio. To get to East Kaio, you have to race. And win it. (East Kaio being the fat lady who challenged Goku to a race)

Enma is not always a giant. He turns into one, and it's an ability primarily used by demons. Piccolo stopped using it later on as his demonic essence faded away. More about Enma, he is not always sitting at that desk judging people, but takes breaks and vacations. During his breaks he enters a separate dimension where time flows differently like the Room of Spirit and Time, so he only goes away for a bit.

Similarily, Kaio doesn't always stay on his planet. He regularly goes to hell and other places in the afterlife with his car. When he leaves home, he gets in his car and drives around his planet at super speed, then vanishes into a wormhole.

The reason Super Saiyan 4 looks that way is because it's a form specifically made for fighting, so all the energy concentrates itself around the arms and legs.

When Freeza and his dad came to Earth they had a secret plan/weapon to trap Goku inside something, similar to how the Kaio imprisoned Bojack and his crew into a star, or the Mafuba, or the Dead Zone, because they knew they can't defeat him. Whatever it was, in Trunks' timeline Goku escaped from it with Insantaneous Movement, and in the main timeline we never saw it because of Trunks.

[ekrolo2]

The "Legend" of the Super Saiyan is just that. Goku invents the Super Saiyan transformation as we know it. It is a combination of Kaio-Ken (explaining it being a multiplier) and him trying to copy whatever it is Freeza's ki is doing when he transforms, which Goku has felt him do three times at this point. He learned how to transform after feeling Freeza do it, just like how he learned the Kamehameha after watching Roshi do it. Super Saiyan is basically a sustained/mastered Kaio-Ken.

Now THAT is a good theory!

One that doesn't work because everyone else gets SS after that and they don't know KK.

[TheUltimateNinja]

The "Legend" of the Super Saiyan is just that. Goku invents the Super Saiyan transformation as we know it. It is a combination of Kaio-Ken (explaining it being a multiplier) and him trying to copy whatever it is Freeza's ki is doing when he transforms, which Goku has felt him do three times at this point. He learned how to transform after feeling Freeza do it, just like how he learned the Kamehameha after watching Roshi do it. Super Saiyan is basically a sustained/mastered Kaio-Ken.

Now THAT is a good theory!

One that doesn't work because everyone else gets SS after that and they don't know KK.

I can already predict that this will be rationalized by saying that the others mastered it by copying Goku, but this argument falls flat on its face instantly since Goten most likely hadn't ever seen a Super Saiyan when he first turned into one at less than 6 years old.

[ekrolo2]

Now THAT is a good theory!

One that doesn't work because everyone else gets SS after that and they don't know KK.

I can already predict that this will be rationalized by saying that the others mastered it by copying Goku, but this argument falls flat on its face instantly since Goten most likely hadn't ever seen a Super Saiyan when he first turned into one at less than 6 years old.

Or how Piccolo doesn't have even regular KK even though he spent 3 years fighting Goku and knows what a Super Saiyan's power is like. Funnily enough, this theory makes Super Saiyan Piccolo possible

[ShadowBardock89]

My personal theory on Princess Snake and her attendants is that she originally looked like that but is now cursed to be a giant snake, much like Arachne or the Gorgons in Greek mythology, and her illusions are based on her formerly life and brought to life either through a higher concentration of mind power or magic. The reason why she is cursed is because she originally was the one who guided those privileged to be granted access to the realm of the Kais, but she fell in love with one of the warriors she was supposed to guide and could not bear the thought of them leaving her. She then kidnapped the warrior and prevented that warrior from leaving. Eventually, the higher authorities discovered her crime and, after a tumultuous battle, she was defeated, her attendants killed, and her castle destroyed. As punishment, she was cursed and transformed into a giant snake. Snake Way was built and serves the purpose she originally had, while she lusts after those tread the path.

[apex_pretador]

Due to being entrenched in my pro-science stance, I definitely prefer the term "hypothesis" to "theory".

My hypothesis is that FPSSj is just as powerful as USSJ, and therefore either a multiplier greater than 50x, or at the very least greater than an untrained Super Saiyan.

I agree with you. Not once in the battle against cell does goku use grade 2 form, which also increases speed and strength. If it really was superior to FPSS, he would've used it against cell when their fight was so close.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Due to being entrenched in my pro-science stance, I definitely prefer the term "hypothesis" to "theory".

My hypothesis is that FPSSj is just as powerful as USSJ, and therefore either a multiplier greater than 50x, or at the very least greater than an untrained Super Saiyan.

I agree with you. Not once in the battle against cell does goku use grade 2 form, which also increases speed and strength. If it really was superior to FPSS, he would've used it against cell when their fight was so close.

If Goku did that Cell would just buff up as well and gain even more of an advantage since Grade 2 would drain a lot more stamina from Goku. In their "normal" states Goku could at least put up more of an even fight due Grade 4's low stamina drain.

[Saturnine]

Due to being entrenched in my pro-science stance, I definitely prefer the term "hypothesis" to "theory".

My hypothesis is that FPSSj is just as powerful as USSJ, and therefore either a multiplier greater than 50x, or at the very least greater than an untrained Super Saiyan.

I agree with you. Not once in the battle against cell does goku use grade 2 form, which also increases speed and strength. If it really was superior to FPSS, he would've used it against cell when their fight was so close.

If Goku did that Cell would just buff up as well and gain even more of an advantage since Grade 2 would drain a lot more stamina from Goku. In their "normal" states Goku could at least put up more of an even fight due Grade 4's low stamina drain.

I'm not sure your assumption is correct. Cell buffing up would slow him down - he doesn't really use a Grade 2 where you buff up but it doesn't slow you down too much. So a Grade 2 Goku would still have the speed advantage. Another thing - since Grade 2's boost is estimated by most folks as 1,5x-2x, wouldn't it be kinda equivalent to Gohan's supposed 2x SSj2 boost? Cell not only powered up to full power, but also bulked up, and it still couldnt' save him from Gohan's overwhelming power.

Let's say that:
1) Goku is an ingenious fellow, he could find a way to make Grade 2 work to his advantage, such as only using it momentarily to augment his blows or tank Cell's, then revert to normal Super Saiyan to conserve energy
2) He didn't do the above, and he quite truthfully said that he was giving it his all
3) If Grade 2 on top of FPSSj was possible, and it gave a 1,5x increase in power like many say, Gohan's 2x from SSj2 would not only not feel impressive, but wouldn't actually be needed. SSj2 Gohan > PW FP Cell > FP Cell > Powered Up Cell, and if we assume that he accomplished all that with a mere 2x boost on top of his Super Saiyan Full Power, then Goku should easily be able to do the same with a 1,5x boost, like I wrote above. He'd wreck Cell.

Due to above reasons, I think it's reasonable to infer that Grade 4 replaces Grade 2 entirely, and incorporates its full power. This extends perhaps even to the realm Grade 3 affords. Only putting SSj2's boost on top of THAT power makes it feel suitably impressive, and - to be honest - justified from a storytelling perspective. Gohan's SSj2 was both foreshadowed to be a big deal, and proven to be a big deal when it came. No one would be impressed by Gohan if they themselves commanded a similar realm of power through a 1,5x-2x boost via Grade 2. Hell, Vegeta and Trunks could have powered up to destroy the Cell Juniors just as easily as Gohan did. They didn't - and if they had the ability, it can't be justified. Therefore it's more plausible IMO that they simply couldn't, because they already had that power at their disposal.

If Grade 2 actually lowered your speed in absolute terms, then I'd understand capable people hesitating to use it. But it was both said and shown to increase speed alongside strength (though admittedly, the speed increase may not be proportional to the powerlevel increase). But it's still there - a basically free boost that, although flawed, gets the job done. Neither Goku nor Vegeta would discard it just like that, if it could have provided an advantage. Goku used SSj3 a lot, fully aware of its flaws. He totally wouldn't discard Grade 2 as a valuable tool. Which again leads me to believe that FPSSj gives you the power of a Grade 2.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I'm not sure your assumption is correct. Cell buffing up would slow him down - he doesn't really use a Grade 2 where you buff up but it doesn't slow you down too much. So a Grade 2 Goku would still have the speed advantage. Another thing - since Grade 2's boost is estimated by most folks as 1,5x-2x, wouldn't it be kinda equivalent to Gohan's supposed 2x SSj2 boost? Cell not only powered up to full power, but also bulked up, and it still couldnt' save him from Gohan's overwhelming power.

Let's say that:
1) Goku is an ingenious fellow, he could find a way to make Grade 2 work to his advantage, such as only using it momentarily to augment his blows or tank Cell's, then revert to normal Super Saiyan to conserve energy
2) He didn't do the above, and he quite truthfully said that he was giving it his all
3) If Grade 2 on top of FPSSj was possible, and it gave a 1,5x increase in power like many say, Gohan's 2x from SSj2 would not only not feel impressive, but wouldn't actually be needed. SSj2 Gohan > PW FP Cell > FP Cell > Powered Up Cell, and if we assume that he accomplished all that with a mere 2x boost on top of his Super Saiyan Full Power, then Goku should easily be able to do the same with a 1,5x boost, like I wrote above. He'd wreck Cell.

Due to above reasons, I think it's reasonable to infer that Grade 4 replaces Grade 2 entirely, and incorporates its full power. This extends perhaps even to the realm Grade 3 affords. Only putting SSj2's boost on top of THAT power makes it feel suitably impressive, and - to be honest - justified from a storytelling perspective. Gohan's SSj2 was both foreshadowed to be a big deal, and proven to be a big deal when it came. No one would be impressed by Gohan if they themselves commanded a similar realm of power through a 1,5x-2x boost via Grade 2. Hell, Vegeta and Trunks could have powered up to destroy the Cell Juniors just as easily as Gohan did. They didn't - and if they had the ability, it can't be justified. Therefore it's more plausible IMO that they simply couldn't, because they already had that power at their disposal.

If Grade 2 actually lowered your speed in absolute terms, then I'd understand capable people hesitating to use it. But it was both said and shown to increase speed alongside strength (though admittedly, the speed increase may not be proportional to the powerlevel increase). But it's still there - a basically free boost that, although flawed, gets the job done. Neither Goku nor Vegeta would discard it just like that, if it could have provided an advantage. Goku used SSj3 a lot, fully aware of its flaws. He totally wouldn't discard Grade 2 as a valuable tool. Which again leads me to believe that FPSSj gives you the power of a Grade 2.

In Super Trunks uses Grade 3 against Vegeta and Vegeta says, "You're still relying on that obsolete form?" So it would seem they still have the ability to use these forms, they just consider them obsolete.

And even if Goku went Grade 2 he'd still only be a match for FP Cell, Cell wouldn't even need to buff up to match Goku's power.

[Saturnine]

And even if Goku went Grade 2 he'd still only be a match for FP Cell, Cell wouldn't even need to buff up to match Goku's power.

Still, Goku had no idea what reserves Cell was still hiding. At the time when they fought, the boost from Grade 2 would have been enough to finish the job two times over. Hell, charging up that big Kamehameha that Goku did would have been a perfect moment to go Grade 2 to supplement its power. He might have obliterated Cell then and there.

As for Vegeta's comment, he called the transformation "primitive" rather than "obsolete". And yeah, I took that into account when thinking about this issue recently. It kinda throws a wrench into the whole hypthesis, but it really doesn't have to - if you just assume the boost is put on top of regular SSj power, not FPSSj power. In an analogy - Freeza after his training could still probably bulk up when powering up if he chose to, but he didn't need to and had no reason to, since his slim body could now contain all of the power. I see this as a direct equivalent of the Grade 3 vs Grade 4 situation. Both are power-ups over Grade 1, but one is imperfect and the other's perfect.

[TheUltimateNinja]

And even if Goku went Grade 2 he'd still only be a match for FP Cell, Cell wouldn't even need to buff up to match Goku's power.

Still, Goku had no idea what reserves Cell was still hiding. At the time when they fought, the boost from Grade 2 would have been enough to finish the job two times over. Hell, charging up that big Kamehameha that Goku did would have been a perfect moment to go Grade 2 to supplement its power. He might have obliterated Cell then and there.

As for Vegeta's comment, he called the transformation "primitive" rather than "obsolete". And yeah, I took that into account when thinking about this issue recently. It kinda throws a wrench into the whole hypthesis, but it really doesn't have to - if you just assume the boost is put on top of regular SSj power, not FPSSj power. In an analogy - Freeza after his training could still probably bulk up when powering up if he chose to, but he didn't need to and had no reason to, since his slim body could now contain all of the power. I see this as a direct equivalent of the Grade 3 vs Grade 4 situation. Both are power-ups over Grade 1, but one is imperfect and the other's perfect.

Goku was trying to last as long as possible to show Gohan all of Cell's moves, though. If he went Grade 2 he'd run out of stamina too quickly.