Is it possible that Goku and Piccolo slacked off/declined between DB and Z?

[90sDBZ]

I've thought about this a few times in the past and thought I'd seek some opinions on the matter. Here are some of my reasons for thinking this might be the case:

-Goku having trained under 10x Gravity in the Time Chamber during his training with Kami and later struggling on King Kai's planet.
-When Goku arrives on the battlefield against Frieza, Piccolo comments on how much he's improved since they fought eachother. It seems curious he'd refer to that instead of the fight with Raditz which is when they last met.
-During the fight with Raditz Piccolo calls Goku a slacker for not having any new techniques, although it could also be an implication that he'd actually gotten weaker.
-The fact that Goku had been living with Chi Chi for 5 years would logically limit his training time, while he trained constantly during the 3 years prior to the 23rd Tournament.
-Piccolo suddenly seems to make incredible gains in the year leading up to the saiyans arrival. He gets much stronger in that 1 year than he did in the previous 5 years.

I'm thinking that because Piccolo had seemingly lost interest in world domination, and Goku already realised that he wasn't as evil as King Piccolo and was confident that he could always beat him, that perhaps they both let themselves slide a bit. It could also be possible that Piccolo had already sensed his death coming years before Z began, and Goku might have felt disappointed that he never challenged him in all that time so saw no reason to train as seriously as before.

And there's Roshi's comment at the start of Z about how he expected Goku to be weaker now but is surprised by him throwing that stone into the water (although that could be filler). Personally I think that comment could either be taken as "Wow you're stronger than ever!", or "Wow you're still pretty awesome in-spite of settling down".

What do you guys think on the matter?

[precita]

Probably. I'm more surprised that Piccolo never tried to conquer the world in those 4 years before Radditz showed up. That's a long time for Piccolo just to be...training.

[mabalia]

Goku didn't train as much as he should in this period. He was just married, a new father, adapting to a new life. It's reasonable that his training habits slowed down due to this different kind of adventure.

And this is the reason why I think the fanbase is too harsh on Gohan. He has a career, he's just married and has a one year old daughter, it's understandable that he wants to spend more time with them and training is not his first priority (I agree that he should train, but he'll do it for obligation because he's not his father).

[sintzu]

I don't think they did much. Goku was the strongest person on the planet and he didn't know anything about space so he had no reason to train cause he was already the best. it seems like his big intrest with training started again after he found out about space and how there could always be someone stronger than him out there.

[floofychan333]

Probably. I'm more surprised that Piccolo never tried to conquer the world in those 4 years before Radditz showed up. That's a long time for Piccolo just to be...training.

He probably thought he could overpower Goku by training a lot or he was going to show up to destroy years later when Goku assumed Piccolo no longer wanted to destroy him.

[apex_pretador]

No, they were both training hard with weighted clothes.

[RehBeh]

What apex predator said.

[90sDBZ]

No, they were both training hard with weighted clothes.

We know they were both wearing weighted clothes, but by that point they'd been wearing daily them since before the 23rd Tournament and had gotten to the point were they could move around casually with them on. They probably just kept wearing them so as not to get too much weaker. I'm pretty sure the weights Goku wears don't get any heavier between DB and Z so that implies he hasn't exactly made a great deal of progress.

[apex_pretador]

No, they were both training hard with weighted clothes.

We know they were both wearing weighted clothes, but by that point they'd been wearing daily them since before the 23rd Tournament and had gotten to the point were they could move around casually with them on. They probably just kept wearing them so as not to get too much weaker. I'm pretty sure the weights Goku wears don't get any heavier between DB and Z so that implies he hasn't exactly made a great deal of progress.

It was never implied that they didnt train. If anything, Piccolo even developed a new technique, and we do know he was doing nothing but training.

[TheUltimateNinja]

No, they were both training hard with weighted clothes.

We know they were both wearing weighted clothes, but by that point they'd been wearing daily them since before the 23rd Tournament and had gotten to the point were they could move around casually with them on. They probably just kept wearing them so as not to get too much weaker. I'm pretty sure the weights Goku wears don't get any heavier between DB and Z so that implies he hasn't exactly made a great deal of progress.

It was never implied that they didnt train. If anything, Piccolo even developed a new technique, and we do know he was doing nothing but training.

The fact that Goku was still on Piccolo's level after 5 years shows he didn't slack off. Piccolo has no reason to slack off on training, he has literally nothing else to do, and he vowed vengeance on Goku so we know he trained very hard in preparation for the day he gets to kill Goku.

[mabalia]

No one here says they didn't train in this period, but their training regime wasn't as intense as it was after the saiyans invasion.

[dragonball0900]

The people who say Goku didn't train that much because he has a family and new life, they are wrong. Goku always trains, no matter what happens. That's his character. And considering how he's still on Piccolo's level, who also obviously trains, then it's obvious that Goku has been training all the time. Yet at the end of the 23rd Budokai, Goku even said he will train since he said he wanted to defeat Piccolo another time.

[nickzambuto]

No, they were both training hard with weighted clothes.

I'd say they were keeping in shape before I said they were training hard.

[90sDBZ]

The fact that Goku was still on Piccolo's level after 5 years shows he didn't slack off. Piccolo has no reason to slack off on training, he has literally nothing else to do, and he vowed vengeance on Goku so we know he trained very hard in preparation for the day he gets to kill Goku.

Piccolo did learn a new technique but obviously hadn't mastered it to the point were he could use it instantly. As things stood it would obviously be useless in a one-on-one fight against Goku due to the time it takes to charge.

As far as Piccolo having no reason to slack off, you could also raise the question as to why he didn't actually challenge Goku in those 5 years. I personally believe that he could already sense his death coming long before Raditz showed up, and was naturally distracted by it. Sure maybe he did still want Goku dead, but his heart wasn't in it like it had been before.

And in Goku's case he had Chi Chi to contend with. We all know how controlling she can be, and I could easily see her scolding Goku for spending time away from his family. I think the fact that Goku jumped on the opportunity to train in space for a year and a half after Namek, opted to stay dead to train after Cell, and later ran off to train with Uub says that he was pretty eager to break free. And then there's Super, where he's sneaking in training behind her back when he's supposed to be doing farm work.

I'm sure he did manage to get a certain degree of training in during the 5 years, but you have to wonder how much compared to when he had total freedom to train all day everyday at the Lookout. It's like an athlete who has to step things up to get into peak condition for an event, and then cuts back at other times. Plus the whole thing with him having trained in the Time Chamber at 10x Gravity prior to King Kai's planet is pretty hard to ignore.

[mabalia]

And in Goku's case he had Chi Chi to contend with. We all know how controlling she can be, and I could easily see her scolding Goku for spending time away from his family. I think the fact that Goku jumped on the opportunity to train in space for a year and a half after Namek, opted to stay dead to train after Cell, and later ran off to train with Uub says that he was pretty eager to break free. And then there's Super, where he's sneaking in training behind her back when he's supposed to be doing farm work.

I still think that Goku had to adapt to his new life and nowhere in the manga I read that Goku was unhappy with the choices he made or he wouldn't come back to Chichi and his sons each time he had to go away. Sure, we first hear him complaining that Chichi didn't want him to train his 4 years old son, but Gohan was still very young and Chichi is a martial artist herself so she knows how harsh training can be (at this point she doesn't know her son is a half alien). I think it's possible that Chichi could be convinced by Goku to let Gohan train when he's a bit older if Radtz had never showed up (but education would still be the first priority).

And Goku didn't say that Chichi was against his own training. Goku is a person who does what he wants to do (just like you said), if he said to Chichi he had to go away to spend months training because he feared that Piccolo could get stronger than him, Chichi wouldn't dare to oppose because she wants Goku alive. If he didn't train as much as he should during those 5 years, it's because he was distracted with his new wife and son.

I don't see Goku as this uncaring man the fandom likes to see him, he was very loving and protective towards Gohan, and it says a lot of this 5 years of family life.

The time spent to train in space could be explained by the thechnique he learned (if he had know instant transmission during the saiyans invasion he could save his friends life) and he needed to dominate the super saiyan form that made him instable.

His option to stay dead is view like a sacrifice because he concluded he attracted danger to the planet. Sure, he did get especial training in the after life and he was happy with it, but he didn't want Gohan and his friends being sad about his choice

With Uub, we still don't know much about this training. They live on Earth, Uub's family is poor, Goku knows instant transmission. His sons and granddaughter could easily go anywhere Goku is, even Chichi could go to him if she wanted. For all we know, Goku could get back to his home by dinner time.

I don't really want to talk about the super anime, but Goku being a farmer is something I apreciate. We know he doesn't like it but he still works regardless and his vegetables are good and this implies that he's a good farmer. He works because he wants to please his wife, he promissed her he'd get a job after he's cured of his heart disease. But when it's training time he'll let the work behind, that's how Goku is.

[apex_pretador]

No, they were both training hard with weighted clothes.

I'd say they were keeping in shape before I said they were training hard.

Piccolo definitely was training hard, because he was humiliated by goku 5 years ago (Okay, not humiliated, but still defeated by him) and had nothing else to do, except one goal in mind - KILL GOKU. Goku wasn't horrbily outclassed by him by BoZ so I believe it is safe to say he was still training.

Anyways, it still puts down the opinion of OP about them "slacking off"

[90sDBZ]

Piccolo definitely was training hard, because he was humiliated by goku 5 years ago (Okay, not humiliated, but still defeated by him) and had nothing else to do, except one goal in mind - KILL GOKU. Goku wasn't horrbily outclassed by him by BoZ so I believe it is safe to say he was still training.

Anyways, it still puts down the opinion of OP about them "slacking off"

So how do you explain Goku struggling with a level of gravity he'd already trained under for a whole month?

[apex_pretador]

Piccolo definitely was training hard, because he was humiliated by goku 5 years ago (Okay, not humiliated, but still defeated by him) and had nothing else to do, except one goal in mind - KILL GOKU. Goku wasn't horrbily outclassed by him by BoZ so I believe it is safe to say he was still training.

Anyways, it still puts down the opinion of OP about them "slacking off"

So how do you explain Goku struggling with a level of gravity he'd already trained under for a whole month?

1. Goku didn't get used to high gravity.
2. Goku got heavier
3. Kid trunks with power level over 10x namek goku couldnt get up in 150g while namek goku perfected 100g. Power level and gravity don't always corelate in DB
4. Goku was tired from running all the way to king kai and then he was also wearing weights.

[Nejishiki]

We know they were both wearing weighted clothes, but by that point they'd been wearing daily them since before the 23rd Tournament and had gotten to the point were they could move around casually with them on. They probably just kept wearing them so as not to get too much weaker. I'm pretty sure the weights Goku wears don't get any heavier between DB and Z so that implies he hasn't exactly made a great deal of progress.

I was under the impression that Piccolo used weighted clothing after the 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai concluded.

Piccolo: "Raditz... you talk too much."
Goku: "Piccolo... you were armored, too?"
Piccolo: "As are you, boy..."
Piccolo: "And I have not felt so light in a long while..."
Raditz: ["What!?"]
Raditz: ["His power... Jumping to 408...!"]
Goku: "Well, well..."
Goku: "Looks like we've both been training hard!"
Goku: "Well, I'm just glad..."
Goku: "...That this time, you're on my side."

So how do you explain Goku struggling with a level of gravity he'd already trained under for a whole month?

I would think one month of training, without direction, roughly eight years ago wouldn't compare to forty days of training with a better instructor.

[90sDBZ]

Piccolo definitely was training hard, because he was humiliated by goku 5 years ago (Okay, not humiliated, but still defeated by him) and had nothing else to do, except one goal in mind - KILL GOKU. Goku wasn't horrbily outclassed by him by BoZ so I believe it is safe to say he was still training.

Anyways, it still puts down the opinion of OP about them "slacking off"

So how do you explain Goku struggling with a level of gravity he'd already trained under for a whole month?

1. Goku didn't get used to high gravity.
2. Goku got heavier
3. Kid trunks with power level over 10x namek goku couldnt get up in 150g while namek goku perfected 100g. Power level and gravity don't always corelate in DB
4. Goku was tired from running all the way to king kai and then he was also wearing weights.

1. He was able to survive in the Chamber for a whole month though. You'd think that would be plenty of time to get used to the gravity.
2. Didn't Toriyama state that his height shot up during his time in the Time Chamber? I can't see him getting that much heavier by the Saiyan arc.
3. That's true, and I can kind of see your point, but Kid Trunks had never experienced any kind of altered gravity at all in his life prior to that. Plus we don't know how strong he was prior to training with Vegeta for the Tournament. For all we know he could have been much weaker. Remember how much progress Goku made in only 6 days of gravity training on the way to Namek.
4. Well I can't argue with that, and I guess the difference we see in him after he eats also supports this.

I guess it's possible that they did train pretty hard then. Although there's still the question as to how Piccolo suddenly made way bigger gains in 1 year than he did in the previous 5.