"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[OLKv3]

And yet so stupid how SSJ2 Trunks and a mere mortal like Mai managed to survive these attacks from Super Saiyan ROSÉ Black, well power scalling to be damned again

Really not seeing the problem with this. Vegeta took major prolonged ass beatings from foes ridiculously more powerful than him many times. And in the pictures Black is clearly enjoying the beatdown and prolonging it. He's torturing his prey, this is typical DB.

The problem is that the gap in strength is so fucking huge from SSJ2 Trunks to SSJR Goku black. He realistically should have caved Future Trunks' skull in. You can handwave this as typical Dragon Ball villain bullshit, but you really have to suspend you disbelief, in that Goku Black was holding back just to torture Future Trunks some more.

As explained earlier, so was the gap between Vegeta and the monsters who kicked his ass. There has never been any official numbers in how wide the gaps ever were, so you're pretty much making claims based on assumptions. Vegeta couldn't even touch Freeza, and got his ass beat ruthlessly until Freeza decided "Ok, time to oneshot him". Same thing is going on here. Anime and Manga Black never go for the one shot kill for some reason. There's no issue. These whole "muh power level inconsistencies" are pretty much "this goes against the headcanon I've believed all these years".

There's no problem here. Last issue had the inconsistencies, with SSJ Black matching SSB Vegeta, but this? This is nothing

[Lord Beerus]

Really not seeing the problem with this. Vegeta took major prolonged ass beatings from foes ridiculously more powerful than him many times. And in the pictures Black is clearly enjoying the beatdown and prolonging it. He's torturing his prey, this is typical DB.

The problem is that the gap in strength is so fucking huge from SSJ2 Trunks to SSJR Goku black. He realistically should have caved Future Trunks' skull in. You can handwave this as typical Dragon Ball villain bullshit, but you really have to suspend you disbelief, in that Goku Black was holding back just to torture Future Trunks some more.

As explained earlier, so was the gap between Vegeta and the monsters who kicked his ass. There has never been any official numbers in how wide the gaps ever were, so you're pretty much making claims based on assumptions. Vegeta couldn't even touch Freeza, and got his ass beat ruthlessly until Freeza decided "Ok, time to oneshot him". Same thing is going on here. Anime and Manga Black never go for the one shot kill for some reason. There's no issue

Which monsters are you talking about that Vegeta fought? Dow you mean who he fought on Namek or the Android arc? Because in those cases, as I've said before there was big gap in strength, but it's nowhere near comparable to what we see with gap in strength between SSJ2 tier and SSJR tier in both the Super anime and the manga. The difference in strength is insane in that department.

[IKevinX]

I have a theory on Black's powerlevel that fixes and actually holds together with the manga's crazy powerscalling. I tried bringing it up in the powerlevels thread but it was overlooked.
It's in my sig to those who are curious.

But long story short. After the zenkai his Base, SSJ and SSJ Rosé do not have huge differences. Kinda like Goku vs Beerus in BOG after the SSJGod transformation ran out. Think of it as Black's body is relearing his godly potential.

And again it's hard to judge the powerlevels with only partial leaks. It will make more sense when the chapter becomes fully available.

[LightBing]

It's a problem regardless. Either you accept the powerscalling makes no sense and/or you make Black look like a moron when Trunks inevitably escapes. I haven't seen the page of Trunks escaping yet, so I'll hold my judgement, but it seems like Toyotaro cornered himself.

It's not a problem unless Black says he's trying to murder Black with those attacks. Which doesn't seem the case since he's smashing his head against concrete, not exactly a killing move, it's more like torture.
It's like Freeza for 90% of his appearances. He could have murdered everyone easily yet he didn't.

This might be the case of Black turning into a Bond villain if he plays with Trunks for 15 pages. As it stands, it's an sadistic dude being sadistic because he can.

Judge it when all the information is available. Don't say it's either black or white.

[Doctor.]

It's a problem regardless. Either you accept the powerscalling makes no sense and/or you make Black look like a moron when Trunks inevitably escapes. I haven't seen the page of Trunks escaping yet, so I'll hold my judgement, but it seems like Toyotaro cornered himself.

It's not a problem unless Black says he's trying to murder Black with those attacks. Which doesn't seem the case since he's smashing his head against concrete, not exactly a killing move, it's more like torture.
It's like Freeza for 90% of his appearances. He could have murdered everyone easily yet he didn't.

This might be the case of Black turning into a Bond villain if he plays with Trunks for 15 pages. As it stands, it's an sadistic dude being sadistic because he can.

Judge it when all the information is available. Don't say it's either black or white.

That's not the point. Black can be sadistic all he wants, the point is that he (probably; I need to state this because people can't accept that you can make predictions) ends up looking like a moron when Trunks escapes, because he's so much stronger than anyone else.

[Tsufuru]

damage control.

[LightBing]

That's not the point. Black can be sadistic all he wants, the point is that he (probably; I need to state this because people can't accept that you can make predictions) ends up looking like a moron when Trunks escapes, because he's so much stronger than anyone else.

If that little bit we've seen is all of it then everybody is a moron by your definition. It's unreasonable to expect characters to act perfectly. If they did personality be dammed and most stories would have finished after a couple of pages.

Again, if this chapter actually bends it so Trunks escapes, I'm with you. Then they made Black an idiot for the purposes of the plot and that sucks. Right now, that's not the case.

[TheMikado]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Don't know why anyone thinks this is a full power attack that caused a crater.

It doesn't, Black makes it when he rams Trunks' head into the ground.

Anyon thinking that Black made the crater is obviously INCREDIBLY INSECURE to the point where they need to make up nonsensical narratives. Like I said we've never to my knowledge seen anyone actually hurt when they used the ki push back technique. Mai didn't survive an attack from Black because Black never really attacked her proper. This is SOOO weird, we've seen this a million times and never believed it was suppose to hurt someone. Soooo wei D what is even going on? This has been the topic of argument for the past few pages.

[TheSaiyanGod]

And yet so stupid how SSJ2 Trunks and a mere mortal like Mai managed to survive these attacks from Super Saiyan ROSÉ Black, well power scalling to be damned again

Really not seeing the problem with this. Vegeta took major prolonged ass beatings from foes ridiculously more powerful than him many times. And in the pictures Black is clearly enjoying the beatdown and prolonging it. He's torturing his prey, this is typical DB.

The problem is that the gap in strength is so fucking huge from SSJ2 Trunks to SSJR Goku black. He realistically should have caved Future Trunks' skull in. You can handwave this as typical Dragon Ball villain bullshit, but you really have to suspend you disbelief, in that Goku Black was holding back just to torture Future Trunks some more.

You did not complain about the incoherence of the manga.
Black was destroyed by Vegeta SSJ2 and with ONLY ONE ZENKAI managed to fight Vegeta SSB that was much stronger than him.
It was the greatest Zenkai of all, and he was not getting used to the body, not because Goku SS2 is not Vegeta SSB level.

Why is Vegeta incoherence training a few months and fighting Black?
SSJ Rosé is no stronger than SSB, they are the same transformations.

Gohan was infinitely weaker than the Goku SSJ, which was weaker than Vegeta SSJ, which was weaker than the android 18, which was weaker than Imperfect Cell, which was much weaker than the second form of Cell that was infinitely more Weak that Perfect Cell and with only 1 year of Gohan training was able to overcome all of them and fight against Perfect Cell.

It's not incoherence, Vegeta fighting Black SSJ Rosé.

[IKevinX]

It's a little because they said HTC training wouldn't increase their power that much since they were close to their limit.

The anime's answer to that was that Vegeta used rage.

[dbgtFO]

The anime's answer to that was that Vegeta used rage.

We will know, if it's the same in the manga in the next chapter.

[TheSaiyanGod]

It's a little because they said HTC training wouldn't increase their power that much since they were close to their limit.

The anime's answer to that was that Vegeta used rage.

In manga it is not said that, only in the anime.

And this anger thing made no sense at all.
Vegeta says that before using the Mafuba, he returns everything they have passed and goes to HTC to train.
In the preview of the ep 63 Goku says that he will leave Black with Vegeta and that it was for him to show the results of his training.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Knew tere is no point rushing since he's never gonna catch the anime up at all so glad Sheuisha isn't making him. Now if only this was in colour...

He did rushed in the beginning, but seems to be slowing down now. I think it is because there are plot points from Toriyama that he really can't skim over like he did with a lot of Zamasu's development.

Toyotaro said that he doesn't skip anything from Toriyama's outline... so what are you talking about?

[HeroR]

Toyotaro said that he doesn't skip anything from Toriyama's outline... so what are you talking about?

He said tried not to skip key details.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Toyotaro said that he doesn't skip anything from Toriyama's outline... so what are you talking about?

He said tried not to skip key details.

Again, what exactly are you talking about Toyotaro skimming over Zamasu's development from Toriyama's outline?

[HeroR]

Again, what exactly are you talking about Toyotaro skimming over Zamasu's development from Toriyama's outline?

I didn't mention Toriyama's outline, which is bare bones anyway. When I said he skims over details from Toriyama I mean he rushed through them like Zamasu wanting Goku's body because he saw it on Godtube.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Again, what exactly are you talking about Toyotaro skimming over Zamasu's development from Toriyama's outline?

I didn't mention Toriyama's outline, which is bare bones anyway. When I said he skims over details from Toriyama I mean he rushed through them like Zamasu wanting Goku's body because he saw it on Godtube.

I don't understand what you mean. Zamasu didn't want Goku's body just because he saw it on GodTube.

[mabalia]

I have a strong suspicion that Mai is Toyotaro's waifu.

I'll comment more after I read the entire chapter. But for the parts that I can see I'm enjoying it.

[HeroR]

I don't understand what you mean. Zamasu didn't want Goku's body just because he saw it on GodTube.

His reasoning basically boils down to seeing a powerful mortal, getting triggered, and then deciding to take their body.

[mabalia]

I don't understand what you mean. Zamasu didn't want Goku's body just because he saw it on GodTube.

His reasoning basically boils down to seeing a powerful mortal, getting triggered, and then deciding to take their body.

What if Zamasu was perplexed by seeing Goku interacting and befriending Zeno on GodTube, a mere mortal with the audacity of being so casual with the powerful (and creepy) Zeno.