So let me get this straight

[GodVegetto91]

I read that Toyotaro "designed" some of the Gods of Destruction..

Does this litterally mean that HE created them out of thin air!?? Without being based on anything the mighty man himself Akira Toriyama had intended??? Because i have a hard time believing that.

I know that Akira Toriyama is lazy.. but come on. He can't even design 12 characters.. it's something that can be done in a week. Hell even in an hour if you have the right idea's by hand.

So what's the deal? did Toyotaro litterally "create" these new characters without any Toriyama involvement at all...? Because that's what most people are implying.

[The gr]

I read that Toyotaro "designed" some of the Gods of Destruction..

Does this litterally mean that HE created them out of thin air!?? Without being based on anything the mighty man himself Akira Toriyama had intended??? Because i have a hard time believing that.

I know that Akira Toriyama is lazy.. but come on. He can't even design 12 characters.. it's something that can be done in a week. Hell even in an hour if you have the right idea's by hand.

So what's the deal? did Toyotaro litterally "create" these new characters without any Toriyama involvement at all...? Because that's what most people are implying.

well toriyama only created 4 god of destruction, toyotaro only created 6 god of destruction and lastly toriyama+toyotaro created 2 god of destruction,so this implies that toyotaro created 6 god of destruction on his own and heck who knows if he designed some of the fighters from this arc, and toriyama designing 110 character on his own seems kinda impossible tbh so he needed help from toyo and maybe Toei

[JulieYBM]

If Toyo-tarou is going to succeed Toriyama them he is going to have to start somewhere. This is it.

[Bullza]

To be fair there's a ton of characters that are going to be introduced. He may have only designed four of the Gods of Destruction but how many Angels did he design? How many Supreme Kai's did he design? How many of the fighters did he design?

He was never going to design them all. Surely you must have known that it was going to be a combination of Toriyama, Toyotaro and Toei who were gonna design all these characters.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I read that Toyotaro "designed" some of the Gods of Destruction..

Does this litterally mean that HE created them out of thin air!?? Without being based on anything the mighty man himself Akira Toriyama had intended?

Yes

I know that Akira Toriyama is lazy.. but come on. He can't even design 12 characters.. it's something that can be done in a week. Hell even in an hour if you have the right idea's by hand.

Firstly, it's not just 12 characters. There are the Kaioshin, Angels, and fighters, which makes it more like 150 designs. The Gods of Destruction are just the ones we know about. Secondly, you cannot make even 10 well-thought out designs in 30 minutes, and you might be able to perfect 10 in a week. Keep in mind that this is pre-planned, not improvisational like some of his old work, so there are likely multiple drafts of designs.

Laziness? Hardly! There's no way Toriyama could design all of them on his best day. It's only natural that someone had to help him, and Toyotaro seems to have done a good job.

[Boo Machine]

In no universe can proper Character design be done in an hour. Especially for 12 characters. (possibly more if you think about how many Non- gods of destruction he did). Hell if Toriyama did do them in an hour I feel like THAT would be lazy and the designs would suffer for it.

Toyo is one of the people who is working on Super. I don't see why he wouldn't contribute. Especially if he is working so closely with Toriyama. In fact, If I remember correctly, contributing his own ideas was something Toriyama encouraged Toyo to do.

[incarnati0n]

I don't know what's the problem here. I doubt that any of Toyotaro's designs made it without Toriyama's seal of approval and there was no way that he was actually manage to design all the characters for this arc since there are too many. Unless you dislike all the designs that weren't made by Toriyama which I find hardly believable I don't know what the surprise is here.

[Faisal Shourov]

Toriyama is getting old, give him some break. He worked on Chrono Trigger and Dr Slumps before writing Dragon Ball. He has done a lot of work in his life

[GodVegetto91]

But it's just a few simple character designs.. come on.. i'm not asking him to DRAW a whole damn Manga. (Like he did in the old days) Obviously that IS too much for him and i fully understand that. But not just some character designs..

I mean just look at the God of Destruction of Universe 1, (that Hairbal) now that's DEFINITELY a typical Toriyama design. (Something he "uniquely" definitely could have come up with and no one else would think of creating such a dumb looking character but Toriyama) and yet it says that toyotaro created it!? You see, this is where i believe that they were based on Akira's Toriyama's ideas, I.E his REAL rough character designs that are not available to the public! Because i have a hard time swallowing all this. Some characters are just TOO Toriyama-like to be "created" by Toyotaro. Or Moscow or Arak.

[Boo Machine]

But it's just a few simple character designs.. come on.. i'm not asking him to DRAW a whole damn Manga. (Like he did in the old days) Obviously that IS too much for him and i fully understand that. But not just some character designs..

I mean just look at the God of Destruction of Universe 1, (that Hairbal) now that's DEFINITELY a typical Toriyama design. (Something he "uniquely" definitely could have come up with and no one else would think of creating such a dumb looking character but Toriyama) and yet it says that toyotaro created it!? You see, this is where i believe that they were based on Akira's Toriyama's ideas, I.E his REAL rough character designs that are not available to the public! Because i have a hard time swallowing all this. Some characters are just TOO Toriyama-like to be "created" by Toyotaro. Or Moscow or Arak.

If it's so Toriyama like then isn't that a good thing? It means Toyo is getting better at mimicking his style. In which case what's the difference and why does it matter who created what? You said it's Toriyama like. It's Toriyama approved. I fail to see an issue.

Also " A few simple character designs" is selling it short. Very rarely is the final design the first try at designing a character. There are usually several drafts from several ideas about a character until they settle on the one we get. And that's just one character. Maybe a little more in Toyo's case because I imagine he has to get it approved by Toriyama. The designs may look simple but a lot of work goes into making them appealing. Also, like others have mentioned we have no idea right now just how many other characters Toriyama did himself, outside the Gods of destruction.

[GodVegetto91]

But it's just a few simple character designs.. come on.. i'm not asking him to DRAW a whole damn Manga. (Like he did in the old days) Obviously that IS too much for him and i fully understand that. But not just some character designs..

I mean just look at the God of Destruction of Universe 1, (that Hairbal) now that's DEFINITELY a typical Toriyama design. (Something he "uniquely" definitely could have come up with and no one else would think of creating such a dumb looking character but Toriyama) and yet it says that toyotaro created it!? You see, this is where i believe that they were based on Akira's Toriyama's ideas, I.E his REAL rough character designs that are not available to the public! Because i have a hard time swallowing all this. Some characters are just TOO Toriyama-like to be "created" by Toyotaro. Or Moscow or Arak.

If it's so Toriyama like then isn't that a good thing? It means Toyo is getting better at mimicking his style. In which case what's the difference and why does it matter who created what? You said it's Toriyama like. It's Toriyama approved. I fail to see an issue.

Also " A few simple character designs" is selling it short. Very rarely is the final design the first try at designing a character. There are usually several drafts from several ideas about a character until they settle on the one we get. And that's just one character. Maybe a little more in Toyo's case because I imagine he has to get it approved by Toriyama. Also, like others have mentioned we have no idea right now just how many other characters Toriyama did himself, outside the Gods of destruction.

Still, even 50 Character Designs alone doesn't even compare to drawing a nearly 500 episode based manga series, which includes creating character designs, drawing ALL the scenes ASWELL as writing the entire story. Now THAT is a lot!

[Boo Machine]

But it's just a few simple character designs.. come on.. i'm not asking him to DRAW a whole damn Manga. (Like he did in the old days) Obviously that IS too much for him and i fully understand that. But not just some character designs..

I mean just look at the God of Destruction of Universe 1, (that Hairbal) now that's DEFINITELY a typical Toriyama design. (Something he "uniquely" definitely could have come up with and no one else would think of creating such a dumb looking character but Toriyama) and yet it says that toyotaro created it!? You see, this is where i believe that they were based on Akira's Toriyama's ideas, I.E his REAL rough character designs that are not available to the public! Because i have a hard time swallowing all this. Some characters are just TOO Toriyama-like to be "created" by Toyotaro. Or Moscow or Arak.

If it's so Toriyama like then isn't that a good thing? It means Toyo is getting better at mimicking his style. In which case what's the difference and why does it matter who created what? You said it's Toriyama like. It's Toriyama approved. I fail to see an issue.

Also " A few simple character designs" is selling it short. Very rarely is the final design the first try at designing a character. There are usually several drafts from several ideas about a character until they settle on the one we get. And that's just one character. Maybe a little more in Toyo's case because I imagine he has to get it approved by Toriyama. Also, like others have mentioned we have no idea right now just how many other characters Toriyama did himself, outside the Gods of destruction.

Still, even 50 Character Designs alone doesn't even compare to drawing a nearly 500 episode based manga series, which includes creating character designs, drawing ALL the scenes ASWELL as writing the entire story. Now THAT is a lot!

Yes, You're right. I'm not sure how that fact makes character design any easier, but you're absolutely correct.

[Xeztin]

But it's just a few simple character designs.. come on.. i'm not asking him to DRAW a whole damn Manga. (Like he did in the old days) Obviously that IS too much for him and i fully understand that. But not just some character designs..

I mean just look at the God of Destruction of Universe 1, (that Hairbal) now that's DEFINITELY a typical Toriyama design. (Something he "uniquely" definitely could have come up with and no one else would think of creating such a dumb looking character but Toriyama) and yet it says that toyotaro created it!? You see, this is where i believe that they were based on Akira's Toriyama's ideas, I.E his REAL rough character designs that are not available to the public! Because i have a hard time swallowing all this. Some characters are just TOO Toriyama-like to be "created" by Toyotaro. Or Moscow or Arak.

If it's so Toriyama like then isn't that a good thing? It means Toyo is getting better at mimicking his style. In which case what's the difference and why does it matter who created what? You said it's Toriyama like. It's Toriyama approved. I fail to see an issue.

Also " A few simple character designs" is selling it short. Very rarely is the final design the first try at designing a character. There are usually several drafts from several ideas about a character until they settle on the one we get. And that's just one character. Maybe a little more in Toyo's case because I imagine he has to get it approved by Toriyama. Also, like others have mentioned we have no idea right now just how many other characters Toriyama did himself, outside the Gods of destruction.

Still, even 50 Character Designs alone doesn't even compare to drawing a nearly 500 episode based manga series, which includes creating character designs, drawing ALL the scenes ASWELL as writing the entire story. Now THAT is a lot!

I could be wrong but I doubt if there were a hundred character designs in the entire manga until this arc. There could have been over a thousand designs drafts and all included and even if Toriyama was capable of that there is no way he'd be bothered to do it all himself. Toyotaro is using scenes from the old movies for backgrounds and such. Iv'e never heard of anyone doing that before and honestly he's probably got more passion for it than anyone in the world to be this contributed. Toyotaro has practiced mimicking Toriyama's style at least until his AF days that we know of. His style is getting closer and closer to being identical to Toriyama's, even his jokes. I see no reason as to why someone like him couldn't get into Toriyama's head and draw something like that. Toyotaro will probably take over soon after Toriyama steps down, from the interviews Toriyama seems to be very proud of him.

[Basako]

Looks like Toyotaro's involvement in the creative area is growing, at least in the designing part, not in the main story draft, as far as we know.

I'm gonna make a little analysis about Toriyama's designing and ilustration evolution. They tended to become more simple or minimalist in time. Comparing his early works with his later's, but I'm not saying they are bad now, he just evolved. Let's see his last designs, some of them are reusing the previous, like Frost, Black or Zamasu. The new ones tend to be simple, like Monaka (which is funny) or Botamo, the most obvious ones. Again, not saying they are bad, but looks like Toyotaro is bringing some fresh air to the table, looking to the last designs.

Anyhow, I don't think it's fair to call him lazy, even if he has called it to himself joking. First, you don't get to be that good being lazy. Second, he worked hard so many years providing a weekly chapter of Dr Slump and DB with a very demanding schedule. Third, even if he said it was kind of tiring to draw the tail so he took it out and things like that, if we see his work, he kept making complicated designs like Freezer third state or Cell all along. Doesn't that mean anything?

He is retired now and he admitted he would never have returned to make a weekly manga like before. I'm glad he found such a good successor and that he keeps providing plot and some designs. When he is not involved, the ship sinks, we saw it in GT. Who knows, maybe it won't happen if Toyotaro continues some day without him, he is proving himself pretty well.

[Draconic]

Saiying that designing characters is easy is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Just try coming up with a character. You need to have the personality in place, in order for the design to complement it. You need to keep it in the artistic style of the series. You then have to make it appealing. After all those elements are in check, you then move on to refining it. Adding or taking out detail can make a world of difference, so even if you know by large what the character should look like, seeing possible combinations of different elements and which works best is a pain. And that's just for one character, now add 9 more. Now think about Toriyama, a guy who also has to come up with the plot of the story, refine that, see what works best for each situation.

Then add angels for every god, then Kaioshin. And then of course, 15 new designs for 11 Universes, plus one or two for the other one (in case of new transformations for Goku and Gohan).

Even the shittiest design can take a couple of days at the least. So let's assume out of all these almost 200 new designs, only like 10 are important. That's 10 weeks of work just for them at the lowest end. Then add about 170 days for all the half-assed ones. That's 8 months of work in total at the minimum just to come up with everything.

Why bother when you have a perfectly fine artist, who can inject new ideas for new characters. Hell, splitting those up between Toriyama and Toyotaro might lead to more unique and interesting characters, instead of one just half-assing the majority.

[ChronoTwigger]

Are you aware that 90% of Studio Bird designs weren't Toriyama designs?
So maybe your best character was done by "nnamed japanese salaryman", and not that myth of Toriyama.

Anyway, now I'm working on a project of my own, and I'm outsourcing some design too. It's fun and relaxing.

[ChronoTwigger]

Saiying that designing characters is easy is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Just try coming up with a character.

...and you ALSO need to draw it in all the perspectives, typical expressions and poses XD. It's not only "drawing an image".

[Draconic]

Saiying that designing characters is easy is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Just try coming up with a character.

...and you ALSO need to draw it in all the perspectives, typical expressions and poses XD. It's not only "drawing an image".

Oh, of course, but once you have everything nailed that's the easy part

[ChronoTwigger]

Saiying that designing characters is easy is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Just try coming up with a character.

...and you ALSO need to draw it in all the perspectives, typical expressions and poses XD. It's not only "drawing an image".

Oh, of course, but once you have everything nailed that's the easy part

Well, not entirely. I quite daily design stuff, but in the end if a figure isn't easy to "pose" (you can't instantly create proper and given motions), as good as it was I had to delete it.
It's hard to explain, anyway you was correct to state that design is much more than "drawing a portrait, goodbye".

[Draconic]

...and you ALSO need to draw it in all the perspectives, typical expressions and poses XD. It's not only "drawing an image".

Oh, of course, but once you have everything nailed that's the easy part

Well, not entirely. I quite daily design stuff, but in the end if a figure isn't easy to "pose" (you can't instantly create proper and given motions), as good as it was I had to delete it.
It's hard to explain, anyway you was correct to state that design is much more than "drawing a portrait, goodbye".

True true. On the other hand, (and I don't want to question your talent or anything), when you have the experience of those guys it does become easier.