Justifying Goku Character is Pointless!

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Here we go again.... guys... can we stop this
Goku is in character with what he's done, tbh he's done way worst before compared to now.

It is because most people still have nostalgia affecting them, for example people complain that SSGSS is a "lazy recolour" yet don't sit and think about SS1/2/3, or the amount of people that say Super's animation sucks despite not Super only rivalling it but even surpassing Z's animation a few times. It is just the same here some people will gladly defend all of Goku's previous actions with XY&Z yet refuse to acknowledge when someone counters an argument to Super Goku.

Breaking this entire situation down once and for all:

.Zen-Oh promises a multi-verse tournament to the most fight hungry person in the world.
.Beerus and Whis warn Goku not to approach Zen-Oh cuz he might do something off. All of this was if buts and maybes. Remember Zen-Oh called Goku to play.
.Goku says he saw Zen-Oh power at full force- People use this argument don't look at the fact that Zen-Oh only did that because the future universe was complete shit and Zamasu did his weird takeover the universe thing.
.The big one- Not one time when he went and met Zen-Oh did he or they ever mention the erasing thing, Goku simply asked for something that was promised to be fulfilled it is not even like Goku just thought of asking for a multi-verse tournament on the spot.
.Goku says will take responsibility for U7 when he doesn't need to.
.Goku's first response was to ask Zen-Oh to forgot the erase thing.
.Goku said he would think of something when shit hits the fan.

Nothing here is Out of Character nothing, nothing here is "Flanderisation" . Toriyama said it himself, Goku is not a good guy but does good things as a result.

So you're saying that all of the issues that people have with the characterisation of Goku is product of nostalgia and that there's nothing wrong with him at all?

I have used the terms "most people" and then "some people". Never once did I say "all people".

[Avok]

I think its more like people are making mountains out of mole hills based on what they believe the character should be like from when they watched them as a child.

Most people understand that Goku isn't being handled in the best way in Super and acknowledge that traits like his Obliviousness are being played up too much at times. But nostalgia is making some people believe that he has never been stupid or selfish in the past, choosing to hand wave it away with head canon or out right ignore it when brought up.

I've actually been fine with Super's characterisation for the most part, but the writing team have fumbled on a few occasions with the execution. The range of Goku's selfishness and naivety in the original series is handled well for the most. In Super, it's fine, but can get bit too exaggerated and just outright mishandled. That being said, I don't agree that Goku has acted outright stupid in Super. Him forgetting stuff like the senzu and and seal for the Mafuba jar... it's just a case of, well, forgetting things in a race against time. I mean, are we really gonna start labelling people stupid if they forget important things? It's like locking you keys inside your car or leaving a bag of groceries on the bus or forgetting important documents you're meant to take to school or work at home the same day. Shit like that just happens. It's a common lapse in concentration that occurs to everyone at one stage of their life, even if they're not in a rush. It's happened to me, you and everyone on this forum at one point in their live. That shouldn't mean you're stupid. Again, forgetting something important does not qualify as a display of lacking of intelligence or being stupid. I really can't stress this enough. Because if we're going by that logic, we're all fucking idiots. There's only one time where he arguably crosses the line for naivety to outright foolishness and that was when he couldn't tell that was Beerus wearing a Monaka suit in EP42. But in that circumstance, it was 100% played for laughs and pure filler. Goku has acted far more foolishly than that in several other scenarios. And in those scenarios, the stakes were far higher.

I disagree with the nostalgia argument as I re-read the manga 4 months ago and the differences are there, but I do acknowledge the poison Toriyama talked about.
About the senzu beans thing, yeah, it is something that could happen, but the way it was done wasn't with that intention in mind. If that was the case I wouldn't see a problem, but the way it was done; purely a comedic play trying to push the idea that Goku is naive and your usual dumb MC is what's wrong.

[buutenks]

Goku has always been a fighting loving idiot. That is why I like Goku's character so much.

[WhatsUpPigeons]

Heres my theory after watching ep 79,

What if Goku held the tournament for reasons other than "excitement"?

After experiencing how much he was pushed against Hitto, he realized the only way to get stronger was to face other universes?

Obvious I know~

But what if he is intentionally getting stronger so that he may have the power to rebel one day? Pushing his limits until he can free universes from the gods of destruction?

[Avok]

He was actually pretty nicely handled this episode (#79).

[Kishido]

He was actually pretty nicely handled this episode (#79).

LOL what?

[Ki Breaker]

He was actually pretty nicely handled this episode (#79).

LOL what?

That smile was definitely black's..
Other than that he was fine for the most part

[TekTheNinja]

He was actually pretty nicely handled this episode (#79).

He was fine, but that doesn't excuse how awful he was handled last episode.

[SansrivaaL]

He was actually pretty nicely handled this episode (#79).

True, he sounded very serious and deep when he was measuring his opponents having ki not known to them since he cant sense their energy.
The same when Satan got hurt he was the first one to aid him instead of Gohan.
You can still see how hyped Goku is, he was smirking throughout everything, even when Boo was getting beat up, while Gohan,Beerus and Shin were all worried, either he knew Boo wasnt gonna lose or he's excited to fight them.

[TekTheNinja]

Oh and about the thread title: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYuQkR0J0iM

But yeah I sorta agree. I don't at all understand why people can't tell the difference between Z Goku and Super Goku. They're practically two different characters.

[Avok]

LOL what?

Yeah.
This was the way I would expect Goku to behave. Excited for strong enemies, but composed for the most part. His remarks on the enemies without ki is that smart Goku of the past too.

To me it was perfectly fine and a proper showcase of how Goku should be handled. What aspect do you think was wrong?

That smile was definitely black's..
Other than that he was fine for the most part

I don't see any problem with the smile, tbh.

He was fine, but that doesn't excuse how awful he was handled last episode.

I know. The differences are huge.