Bullza wrote:The Genki Dama Sword was bad ass though. It was at least a pretty unique way to go.
It was dumb. I'm glad it's gone.
I just hope this doesn't mean that Trunks is useless for the rest of the arc. Even if done with asspulls, Trunks was pretty useful in the anime. The only useful thing he has done so far in the manga was let Goku and Vegeta escape.
It might not be gone yet. Dumb or not, it was a cool scene in the show and a memorable death for the character. Much better than Goku beating Golden Frieza with a Kamehameha in Resurrection F or Goku ending the fight with Hit....with a Kamehameha (in the manga).
If they're just beaten with some other usual energy wave/spirit bomb again like pretty much every one else then that's far worse.
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
The gr wrote:this is just a speculation
Trunks is going to seal merged zamasu with the mafuba instead of the genkidama sword
I'd hate that. The Mafuba as a concept just isn't a secure way to defeat an opponent. He can get released at any point in the future and then you have to deal with him again.
I'm pretty sure that the Omni-king is going to "take care" of everything just like in the anime, we know there are two Omni-kings in the manga next arc, and it's a big plot point. Seeing as how the Genki sword doesn't seem like a plot point, either Vegetto defuses and they press the button as a last resort, or there's no fusion at all and they just press the button anyway.
What I'm trying to say the mafuba is going to accomplish the same thing as the genkidama sword,by that I mean trunks seal merged zamasu but zamasu escape and turn into cloud and then we see the Zeno button in use
The gr wrote:this is just a speculation
Trunks is going to seal merged zamasu with the mafuba instead of the genkidama sword
I'd hate that. The Mafuba as a concept just isn't a secure way to defeat an opponent. He can get released at any point in the future and then you have to deal with him again.
I'm pretty sure that the Omni-king is going to "take care" of everything just like in the anime, we know there are two Omni-kings in the manga next arc, and it's a big plot point. Seeing as how the Genki sword doesn't seem like a plot point, either Vegetto defuses and they press the button as a last resort, or there's no fusion at all and they just press the button anyway.
People vastly overestimate the scope of Toyotaro's changes. Most of what he does is add extra lore, re-arrange the order of events, and cut some fat. Even when he does deviate, it always has the same result. Gowasu will not die in this chapter, Zamasu will fuse, Vegetto will kick his ass a bit, Zeno will erase him, etc.
*turns around and puts fingers in both ears and closes eyes*
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Doctor. wrote:Wait, so did Trunks wait 3 years in the future before coming back to fight the androids or what? Because that's what this chapter makes us believe.
I think it's because they don't have Bulma to adjust the settings.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Maybe I should start making it a point not to comment when I'm not sure of something. Too many people know what they're talking about around here.
Disclaimer: I might get into a disagreement with you. Sometimes I might even get feisty about it. I'll never harbor negative feelings because of it though. I hope you feel the same way!
I made a bet with Alee9977 that Vegeta won't be beaten quickly by an opponent. If I lose, I switch my avatar to Vegeta getting beat by hit. If I win, he switches it to Vegeta holding Black by his hair. This will last a month.
Doctor. wrote:Wait, so did Trunks wait 3 years in the future before coming back to fight the androids or what? Because that's what this chapter makes us believe.
Wasn't it only 8 months? Not sure, but I think this is a plot hole. Granted, minor one, but still.
Doctor. wrote:Wait, so did Trunks wait 3 years in the future before coming back to fight the androids or what? Because that's what this chapter makes us believe.
time travel creates plotholes even back then with cell.
Doctor. wrote:Wait, so did Trunks wait 3 years in the future before coming back to fight the androids or what? Because that's what this chapter makes us believe.
Yeah. It's kind of weird, but it doesn't actually harm the narrative. I mean, the Androids were taking their sweet time destroying the world, and we know that gathering fuel took ages even back then, so it's believable. In fact, time has always been portrayed as flowing at a consistent 1:1 ratio between timelines now that I think about it, so it really isn't all that strange.
MathSSJ wrote:Wasn't it only 8 months? Not sure, but I think this is a plot hole. Granted, minor one, but still.
Nowhere was it said to be 8 months, no.
Last edited by Jinzoningen MULE on Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bullza wrote:The Genki Dama Sword was bad ass though. It was at least a pretty unique way to go.
It was dumb. I'm glad it's gone.
I just hope this doesn't mean that Trunks is useless for the rest of the arc. Even if done with asspulls, Trunks was pretty useful in the anime. The only useful thing he has done so far in the manga was let Goku and Vegeta escape.
It might not be gone yet. Dumb or not, it was a cool scene in the show and a memorable death for the character. Much better than Goku beating Golden Frieza with a Kamehameha in Resurrection F or Goku ending the fight with Hit....with a Kamehameha (in the manga
Doctor. wrote:Wait, so did Trunks wait 3 years in the future before coming back to fight the androids or what? Because that's what this chapter makes us believe.
Yeah. It's kind of weird, but it doesn't actually harm the narrative. I mean, the Androids were taking their sweet time destroying the world, and we know that gathering fuel took ages even back then, so it's believable. In fact, time has always been portrayed as flowing at a consistent 1:1 ratio between timelines now that I think about it, so it really isn't all that strange.
Not saying it's strange, just making sure there wasn't a time frame stated in the manga for how long Trunks took. And it makes future Trunks a bit older than I thought he was.
Doctor. wrote:Wait, so did Trunks wait 3 years in the future before coming back to fight the androids or what? Because that's what this chapter makes us believe.
Yeah. It's kind of weird, but it doesn't actually harm the narrative. I mean, the Androids were taking their sweet time destroying the world, and we know that gathering fuel took ages even back then, so it's believable. In fact, time has always been portrayed as flowing at a consistent 1:1 ratio between timelines now that I think about it, so it really isn't all that strange.
Not saying it's strange, just making sure there wasn't a time frame stated in the manga for how long Trunks took. And it makes future Trunks a bit older than I thought he was.
Actually, I just checked my manga, and there is a line from Bulma in Trunks' epilogue that goes something like "Have you gotten taller?". This could imply that he was a teenager before going in the RoSaT, meaning that it wouldn't have been 3 years. However, there's no concrete line, so it's a soft contradiction at worst. Toriyama has never been the best at remembering time, either, so we could even write it off as a mistake on his end.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
Yeah. It's kind of weird, but it doesn't actually harm the narrative. I mean, the Androids were taking their sweet time destroying the world, and we know that gathering fuel took ages even back then, so it's believable. In fact, time has always been portrayed as flowing at a consistent 1:1 ratio between timelines now that I think about it, so it really isn't all that strange.
Not saying it's strange, just making sure there wasn't a time frame stated in the manga for how long Trunks took. And it makes future Trunks a bit older than I thought he was.
Actually, I just checked my manga, and there is a line from Bulma in Trunks' epilogue that goes something like "Have you gotten taller?". This could imply that he was a teenager before going in the RoSaT, meaning that it wouldn't have been 3 years. However, there's no concrete line, so it's a soft contradiction at worst. Toriyama has never been the best at remembering time, either, so we could even write it off as a mistake on his end.
Take your pick.
either way, time travel is a convolution and should have never been taken on by a man who goes with the flow.
Doctor. wrote:Wait, so did Trunks wait 3 years in the future before coming back to fight the androids or what? Because that's what this chapter makes us believe.
Yeah. It's kind of weird, but it doesn't actually harm the narrative. I mean, the Androids were taking their sweet time destroying the world, and we know that gathering fuel took ages even back then, so it's believable. In fact, time has always been portrayed as flowing at a consistent 1:1 ratio between timelines now that I think about it, so it really isn't all that strange.
MathSSJ wrote:Wasn't it only 8 months? Not sure, but I think this is a plot hole. Granted, minor one, but still.
Nowhere was it said to be 8 months, no.
Wasn't it stated that it took 8 months to gather the fuel? Though I suppose that doesn't necessarily imply that Trunks immediately decided to get going once he had the necessary fuel. But I believe Trunks definitely would have finished puberty if he spent a full 3 years in the future, so I'm inclined to believe that he only stayed in the future for 8 months after all.
Also, I was under the impression that Trunks was taking his sweet time in the present world since he could go back to his timeline with barely any time having passed there, but apparently this is not the case.
Trunks might learn the Genki Dama from the Kaioshin, or something like that. There must be a reason they meet, so I guess that might be it? Maybe they are also going to stay in the present (if they even are in the present) so that's where the energy would come from.
Of course this is all twisting stuff. Trunks isn't shown having a connection to anyone outside of Mai so the moment would hold zero weight, regardless if it's explained well.
Gowasu's death has no impact, since we know Rumoosh has to be alive in the next arc (though I don't put it against Toyotaro, it's not his fault we know this).
The Time Travel stuff Bulma explains is really unnecessary. I don't think it's making the situation any more tense than it already is, so it just feels out of place. I'm fine with retcons, but if they have a purpose at least. Guess we'll have to wait and see what this is all about in future chapters.
Art is pretty conservative. Guess after two action packed chapters it's understadable.
The worst thing of it all is I really can't see how Trunks could help with anything in this whole ordeal, unless he uses the Mafuba like in the anime and that's again, not leading to much, since at the end his timeline still has to be wiped in order for the second Zeno to come to ours. I mean, alright, the villain of the arc is half assed, but does the protagonist have to be too?
Goku learns the Mafuba without the aid of Sea Turtle in this version.
That seriously sucks. And it kinda makes no sense. Who the hell taught Goku how to do the Mafuba? And even if you mention the fact that he was told about this by Roshi at some point, this begs the question, why did Goku never think about using the technique when he was told about it? Did Kami teach him? Or maybe Piccolo? Because him learning on his own with no explanation of how the technique actually work sounds a little ass-pullish.
EDIT: Never mind. Had a brain fart and read Sea Turtle as Turtle Hermit.
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
