Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[The gr]

I think you guys are overestimating Basil. Buu was not even slightly damaged or hurt at all. We had Majin Vegeta literally blow Buu up into pieces, Basil did not do that. We had Kid Buu wreck Fat Buu to the point where he looked tired and badly beaten.

I'd place him around Cell's level at best. Definitely below any of the main characters in the Buu arc.

How is he only perfect cell level at best? Buu even mentioned that the guy was strong so he has to be somewhere in the ssj2 tier bracket.

I think I did a miscalculation about basil so I would put his base form at Super perfect cell tier and his full power at Majin Vegeta ssj2 tier

[Bullza]

But Buu can't really be hurt that much anyway. As mentioned earlier their power only goes down when fighting another Buu.

Buu was plenty serious there at the end and Basil was keeping up with him. I suppose I could see Basil as being in between Perfect Cell and the Buu saga Super Saiyans and the Bulked up Basil as being between Super Perfect Cell and the Buu saga Super Saiyan 2's.

[HeroR]

But Buu can't really be hurt that much anyway. As mentioned earlier their power only goes down when fighting another Buu.

Buu was plenty serious there at the end and Basil was keeping up with him. I suppose I could see Basil as being in between Perfect Cell and the Buu saga Super Saiyans and the Bulked up Basil as being between Super Perfect Cell and the Buu saga Super Saiyan 2's.

He would be higher than Perfect Cell. Keep in mind, the moment that the Buu got 'serious' get Majin Vegeta, Vegeta got stomped within seconds. Here, Basil took hits from Buu and was still able to fight and even power up. It also seemed he lost more or less because his 'drug' wore off given how his body shrank in size. And, Dabura was stated to be around Perfect Cell's level, and Dabura was an utter and complete stomp. Outside of Dabura's surprised attack, he never touched Buu and Buu easily dodged his attacks.

Yes, Fat Buu is weaker than before, but how much his power actually drop has never been confirmed. The only thing we know is that current Buu is weaker than Super Saiyan 3 Goku from the Buu Saga, and there is a big gap between Majin Vegeta and Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

And the power going down against another Buu is speculative, not something actually stated in the manga.

[buutenks]

Mr Buu has high stamina, however, he needs time to recharge it once its depleted. Only Super Buu and Kid Buu have shown that they have endless stamina. Since they never showed signs of fatigue. Even when Vegetto was beating Buuhan, the only thing we notice is that Buu was feeling pain.

[HeroR]

Mr Buu has high stamina, however, he needs time to recharge it once its depleted. Only Super Buu and Kid Buu have shown that they have endless stamina. Since they never showed signs of fatigue. Even when Vegetto was beating Buuhan, the only thing we notice is that Buu was feeling pain.

Actually, Super Buu was showing stamina issues fighting Vegetto to the point that his healing was beginning to waver, at least in the anime. In the manga, the fight was much shorter.

[Bullza]

And the power going down against another Buu is speculative, not something actually stated in the manga.

"Have you noticed Kakarrot? The fat one's power is going down....they can get hurt when they're fighting another Buu."

Literally stated, I don't know why you keep ignoring this.

[dbgtFO]

And the power going down against another Buu is speculative, not something actually stated in the manga.

"Have you noticed Kakarrot? The fat one's power is going down....they can get hurt when they're fighting another Buu."

Literally stated, I don't know why you keep ignoring this.

Well perhaps you could start by putting his name in the quote tags, so he will get notified.
Why you don't even do it to begin with is mindboggling

[HeroR]

And the power going down against another Buu is speculative, not something actually stated in the manga.

"Have you noticed Kakarrot? The fat one's power is going down....they can get hurt when they're fighting another Buu."

Literally stated, I don't know why you keep ignoring this.

Because we clearly saw Buu get weaker and tired when Beerus kicked his his ass and he isn't another Buu. Unless you're going to argue that Beerus is special exception.

[Bullza]

Why you don't even do it to begin with is mindboggling

Pure laziness on my end. I was also using the mobile so it's finicky as it is.

Because we clearly saw Buu get weaker and tired when Beerus kicked his his ass and he isn't another Buu. Unless you're going to argue that Beerus is special exception.

But as I also said after Goku had fought Kid Buu for a while he outright stated that Buu's power never goes down. Then shortly after Vegeta made his comment about noticing their power going down when fighting another Buu.

If their power just went down from fighting anyone then they'd just be like everyone else and neither characters comments would make any sense.

Non Buu characters can hurt Buu but I think Vegeta meant as in them doing lasting damage. No matter what they did to Buu he always quickly regenerated back to normal. This can even be seen with his fight against Beerus because he simply flicked and poked the others and they were flat out but he actually blasted Buu but he soon came back for more.

But when they fight another Buu they apparently do lose power and do receive lasting damage as Goku said Fat Buu wasn't going to last too much longer.

[HeroR]

Why you don't even do it to begin with is mindboggling

Pure laziness on my end. I was also using the mobile so it's finicky as it is.

Because we clearly saw Buu get weaker and tired when Beerus kicked his his ass and he isn't another Buu. Unless you're going to argue that Beerus is special exception.

But as I also said after Goku had fought Kid Buu for a while he outright stated that Buu's power never goes down. Then shortly after Vegeta made his comment about noticing their power going down when fighting another Buu.

If their power just went down from fighting anyone then they'd just be like everyone else and neither characters comments would make any sense.

Non Buu characters can hurt Buu but I think Vegeta meant as in them doing lasting damage. No matter what they did to Buu he always quickly regenerated back to normal. This can even be seen with his fight against Beerus because he simply flicked and poked the others and they were flat out but he actually blasted Buu but he soon came back for more.

But when they fight another Buu they apparently do lose power and do receive lasting damage as Goku said Fat Buu wasn't going to last too much longer.

Kid Buu and Super Saiyan 3 Goku were more or less even, not the same at all between Fat and Kid Buu, which was an utterly stomp. And again, we clearly saw Buu's power go down when fighting Beerus, especially in Super. Meaning that Buu can be overwhelmed and hurt if the power different is great enough, not just another Buu. The only reason why Buu was even still alive because of his regeneration and Beerus not going out of his way to vaporized Buu.

[Lord Frieza]

I think you guys are overestimating Basil. Buu was not even slightly damaged or hurt at all. We had Majin Vegeta literally blow Buu up into pieces, Basil did not do that. We had Kid Buu wreck Fat Buu to the point where he looked tired and badly beaten.

I'd place him around Cell's level at best. Definitely below any of the main characters in the Buu arc.

Against anyone else that would be true but Buu, due to his bubblegum body and regeneration recovers from most attacks from even equal or superior opponents. The only time anyone has done lasting damage to Buu is when they had a gigantic edge over him in power, such as Vegito and Beerus.

So to accurately judge anyones power when matching them up against Buu you have to judge based on how Buu is reacting and responding to their attacks. Taking into account the fact that this Buu is a bit weaker then he originally was, its not that unbelievable to see Power Up Basil being on a similar level to Majin Vegeta.

[apex_pretador]

So (asking all the "2-base theory" supporters) at this point, what would make you believe that there is only one base, stronger than buu but nowhere near SSG?
Also, does Gohan saying "I want to show my current power level" confirm that he is stronger than ever?

[Zamasu55]

So (asking all the "2-base theory" supporters) at this point, what would make you believe that there is only one base, stronger than buu but nowhere near SSG?
Also, does Gohan saying "I want to show my current power level" confirm that he is stronger than ever?

Ssj Gohan (ROF) was as strong as Mystic Gohan.
Then he keeps training with Piccolo, and a year later he manages to fight evenly with Ssj Goku, this means he's gotten stronger.
So yes, he's stronger than ever.
And we notice that he's fighting Lavenda (who, of course, is stronger than Basil) in his base.

[Bullza]

Kid Buu and Super Saiyan 3 Goku were more or less even, not the same at all between Fat and Kid Buu, which was an utterly stomp.

No it is the same. The two fought and Goku lost power but Kid Buu never did. Again there'd be absolutely no purpose whatsoever in Vegeta's comment if their power just decreased from fighting anyone and Goku's line proves that.

We did not clearly see Buu's power go down fighting Beerus at all. He attacked Beerus and then got stomped, he came back and tried again and he got stomped again. There was nothing to indicate his overall power had decreased.

Yes he came back because of his regeneration and that's what I meant about how Buu's can't be truly hurt in the same way as the others except for when they fight another of their kind as Vegeta explicitly said.

[GodKaio-Ken]

I don't see how that fight is evidence that Buu is weaker. Especially since Goku stated even they can't tell how strong U9 is. The only thing we can tell from that fight is that Basil is weaker than Fat Buu who may or may not be stronger than his earlier self.

[LowRyder2005]

So (asking all the "2-base theory" supporters) at this point, what would make you believe that there is only one base, stronger than buu but nowhere near SSG?
Also, does Gohan saying "I want to show my current power level" confirm that he is stronger than ever?

I personally think that everything is heading to confirm the silent retcon theory/ two-base theory (which are kind of the same, they all indicate TOEI dropped the previously suggested plot points). But anyway, a scenario in which Goku's base usually is not particularly higher than his Buu saga base. We already had Super Saiyan Gohan who was basically confirmed to be stronger than Goku's current base or even comparable to his current Super Saiyan form, Buu stomping Basil and now we have Gohan fighting Lavenda in his Super Saiyan form again, the same Super Saiyan form that went toe-to-toe with Super Saiyan Goku just a couple of episodes ago. Like ZombieVito said, it appears more or less doubtful for Lavenda to be a whoppin' dozens or hundreds of times stronger than Basil. Hence, Super Saiyan Gohan and Mr. Buu should most likely be around the same tier, which would mean Super Saiyan Goku himself is around that same tier.

As a sidenote: if one had to judge visually, I believe Mr. Buu and Basil seemed far stronger than most of the contestants from U7 (curiously, Super Saiyan's Vegeta fully powered Final Flash and Mr. Buu's Kamehameha, which were some of the most intense visual feats, literally appeared to hold kind of a strikingly similar destructive power).

The question: no, I believe it looks like a rather contentious jump in logic. It merely means that Gohan made some progress from some point in time. The anime went out of its way multiple times to suggest Gohan was if anything, weaker than his Buu saga self (from ROF, to Future Trunks arc). Honestly, I think it's a no-brainer: they're hyping the return of Ultimate Gohan for a reason, with a big "Gohan is finally serious again" to boot. Gohan is most likely just touching his old power again.

Ssj Gohan (ROF) was as strong as Mystic Gohan.

That was fanmade, gratuitous hype. There is nothing in ROF factually suggesting that; most likely Super Saiyan Gohan is just as strong as... the usual Super Saiyan Gohan. He could draw either too little or not a single shred of his former "Ultimate" power and preferred to use Super Saiyan to have a bigger power output; of course, though, because of lacking training he could barely sustain the form anymore. This is consistent with Goku and Vegeta favoring Buu and Piccolo in the U7 tournament, Trunks talking about Gohan like someone with a less impressive ki than his Cell Games self among other things.

[Mik Darko]

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[dbgtFO]

pics

None of your images work on this site. Try imgur or some other hosting site, as the site you took those from doesn't allow linking them like that apparently.

[Mik Darko]

pics

None of your images work on this site. Try imgur or some other hosting site, as the site you took those from doesn't allow linking them like that apparently.

I can see them

[dbgtFO]

I can see them

That's because they are cached in your browser, so you can load them, as its information is already saved, until you clear your cache.
For people who don't have it cached it's not possible to see them. I had to copy the specific url and open a new tab just to see them and then when I came back on this site, I too could see the ones, I had opened differently, because of the function of the cache.