Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
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Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Post by Cipher » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:20 pm

Look at that topical title!

This came up in another thread recently, and I find it so fascinating, I think it deserves its own discussion. Rumors of hidden Dragon Ball material, or just plain inaccurate news about the series, have been swirling in the online either since the series first gained global popularity. I think we're all familiar with AF and its most commonlly associated visuals (your Super Saiyan 5 Gokus and your Xicors and such). It seems ridiculous to believe a full series could exist in Japan and be hidden from the rest of the world now, but in the early days of online interaction and interest in Japanese media, that idea truly did gain a degree of traction, and supporters were able to pull enough visuals out of the ether -- mostly unrelated fan art, some projects that spun out of AF rumors and in turn added new fuel -- to convince the young and the uninitiated. In a time when the series had stalled out in Japan, but was just starting to gain widespread popularity in the West, arriving in piecemeal form between years of bootlegs and nascent TV dubs, I can see how, coupled with the early days of online conversation, those kind of rumors would flourish.

What amazes me is that the series has never fully lost that mystique. Despite living in age where endless repositories of information are at our fingertips, those kinds of rumors have never truly vanished.

The image that brought up the conversation in the other thread was this rather harmless Facebook meme. You know, something your twelve-year-old brother would post:

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

It's obviously inaccurate, but widespread enough to have spread misinformation about a new crop of villains. (I can actually see here how an initial piece of joke fanart was taken out of context, but the fact it gained traction with that label is really kind of amazing.)

Similarly, a while back I took the following screenshot as a particularly egregious example of the types of images and content that circulate on the clickbait side of Dragon Ball YouTube, but by no means is this isolated to one channel:

Image

First video: "New gods revealed!" + unrelated art. Two weeks later: Okay, I guess they're actually revealed now?

My joke entry on a nonexistent set of canonical "Documents" has been up at the Dragon Ball Wiki for weeks. The first comment on the talk page? Someone giving it the benefit of the doubt to ask if it was legit, despite it containing absolutely absurd information like the fact the documents make the viewer feel like "strong, electric meat."

We're still getting this stuff. On top of it, AF at some point reverse pollinated into Japanese fan culture, where it received a few well known douijinshi runs, whose material then circulated back into the West to fuel rumors anew.

How is it that Dragon Ball, with its relatively uncomplicated history as a serialized manga, a handful of anime adaptations, and an average amount of merchandising for a series of its popularity, continues to have such an aura of mystique around it? How is it that people continue to produce, and believe, completely unfounded rumors not only about its production, but about the existence or lack thereof of swathes of actual content? Now that the series has returned to TV, how is it that for such a straight forward production, such a rampant fake-news/fake-announcement cycle can exist? I don't see these as uncoupled phenomena, particularly because, as far as I'm aware, they're unique to Dragon Ball. I don't follow other long-running anime enough to compare, but I don't believe any others deal with the same sorts of rumors and misinformation, either in scope or frequency.

What causes it? Simply a lightning-in-a-bottle combination of foreign exoticism, younger viewers, and nascent internet culture giving rise to a culture of rumors and mystique that became part of the series' identity?

Let's talk about Dragon Ball's fake news problem, 1996-current, and the seemingly one-of-a-kind mass psychology behind it. Am I off base in trying to make a connection between current fake announcements and the mystical rumors of old? I hope some first- or second-generation fans can weigh in.

EDIT --

Here are some other elements of Dragon Ball's presence in Western fan culture that may or may not be connected to this general aura of mystique/prevalence of misinformation:
  • The popularity of early, inaccurate translations of groups like Anime Labs misrepresenting the series' tone and target audience
  • Marketing campaigns founded on misrepresenting video elements of the series, a la FUNimation's orange bricks
  • Things like "The Lost Episodes" even? The fact that the series was released stateside out of order?
  • All of the above coupled with the fact that, for many, this was their first time following any kind of foreign media, leading to a sense of mystique maintained into an entire generation's adulthood? A foreign-language production does leave information slightly more opaque.
Last edited by Cipher on Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Post by precita » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:21 am

As Trump would say, "FAKE NEWS! Don't believe any of it. It's all lies. Trust me, I know everything."

In reality though, most youtube or other social media fans are I imagine now in their early 20's and just like when they were wee kids/teens believing everything they read on the internet in the early 2000's...they somehow never grew out of it or it's so ingrained in their brains they do the same thing as 20 something year old adults.

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Re: Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Post by Cipher » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:26 am

precita wrote:As Trump would say, "FAKE NEWS! Don't believe any of it. It's all lies. Trust me, I know everything."
I mean, I'm not questioning any of its veracity (or lack thereof). I'm wondering if others are as fascinated as I am by the fact Dragon Ball, among any series this could happen with, seems to be wrapped up in such a persistent culture of rumors and false information.

On an unrelated note, it's shocking how fast the right-wing rhetoric machines moved to reclaim the phrase "fake news" as a tool against reputable outlets, when it rose in usage just last fall as a criticism of baseless social media posts credited with helping them get elected. They are ruthlessly efficient.

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Re: Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Post by precita » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:28 am

Is it really just Dragonball? The Pokemon franchise has constantly had "fake Pokemon" passed off as real ones right before every new major game release into tricking people new designs are revealed, and this is going back 15-20 years. Japanese fans even go as far to mimic the Coro Coro scans that generally reveal new Pokemon games/anime stuff and make their own fanart out of it and pass it off as real. Not to mention the stuff with legendary pokemon and how to get Mew and whatever that's been going on since 1999, or all the glitches/fake stuff about the games.

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Re: Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:56 am

I typed up a huge response to this, but using aspergers to explain the phenomena may come off the wrong way, and I don't feel like dealing with the inevitable backlash.

...but yeah, basically it's aspergers, and this is coming from someone who's dealt with several wonderful autistic children. I really do mean it in the most non-offensive way possible. Those of us who have been involved with them pretty much know that what we see with the more obnoxious part of the Dragon Ball fandom is an obvious reflection of that.
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Re: Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Post by Cipher » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:09 am

precita wrote:Is it really just Dragonball? The Pokemon franchise has constantly had "fake Pokemon" passed off as real ones right before every new major game release into tricking people new designs are revealed, and this is going back 15-20 years. Japanese fans even go as far to mimic the Coro Coro scans that generally reveal new Pokemon games/anime stuff and make their own fanart out of it and pass it off as real. Not to mention the stuff with legendary pokemon and how to get Mew and whatever that's been going on since 1999, or all the glitches/fake stuff about the games.
I actually was thinking of Pokemon as I was typing this post, as, yes, it goes through a similar cycle of fake news approaching each game release, and playground rumors were inseparable from the experience of playing the games during the height of the series as a '90s fad (shoutouts to Pikablu and Mew being under that truck).

However, that's more understandable to me as:

1) It's a video-game, which will always, particular for younger kids and in an era when the internet wasn't widespread, have a certain air of mystery to it. Who knows what could be in the code? The ability to trigger massive glitches by calling up unintended hex codes and Nintendo playing into the mystery of the world intentionally by holding off on the release of Pokemon like Mew helped fan those flames as well. You didn't just use glitches to replace your Blastoise's identifier with an inaccessible hexcode above index number 150 and pull in a bunch of garbage data; you evolved him into the Pokegod Rainer. There was a bunch of nonsense, but it was all based on in-game weirdness and the childish need for explanations.

2) There's never been a rumor that huge swathes of actual content were locked away -- an AF scenario. Maybe it's close though. Fan designs get passed off as actual updates, but it's so weird to compare that happening to a straightforward TV/comic series, rather than a constantly updating game that regularly introduces hundreds of new characters.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:I typed up a huge response to this, but using aspergers to explain the phenomena may come off the wrong way, and I don't feel like dealing with the inevitable backlash.

...but yeah, basically it's aspergers, and this is coming from someone who's dealt with several wonderful autistic children. I really do mean it in the most non-offensive way possible. Those of us who have been involved with them pretty much know that what we see with the more obnoxious part of the Dragon Ball fandom is an obvious reflection of that.
This is ... not so unreasonable to me as to completely dismiss it, but it's also too callous to sign off on. I also find it a slightly insufficient explanation when this stuff has always been such a part of Dragon Ball's Western DNA in a way I don't see mirrored in other popular anime series. (Though I could be wrong, because I haven't followed any of them since I was in seventh grade; maybe there are a bunch of rumors about secret Naruto episodes and an inundation of clickbait announcements featuring fake designs.)

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Re: Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:24 am

I dont buy the aspergers thing either, and that's not because I'm offended, no, but rather many casual and non-autistic people do believe the rumors pretty easily as well.

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Re: Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:28 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:I dont buy the aspergers thing either, and that's not because I'm offended, no, but rather many casual and non-autistic people do believe the rumors pretty easily as well.
I'm not saying that everyone is, I'm saying that the older ones and those that strongly perpetuate the rumors likely are. Of course, lots of them are just regular ol' dumb kids, some of them are filthy casuals that don't know the difference, and some of those spreading it are just morons. However, the repetitious, nitpicking, obsessive nature of the worse corners of fandom is telltale aspergers.
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Re: Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:34 am

Whoa whoa whoa, easy there. I can tell you about casuals and normies who are just as obnoxious if not more. You are going to bit too far now.

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Re: Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Post by Chuquita » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:36 am

It's all about attention; imo. People like to say to themselves "Look how many people I got to click my link! Look how high this number is! I was able to get 1,000,000 people to click something I created!"

Though I guess depending on where you post it you could earn money from each click, so it's also people looking for ways to earn a lot(?) of money fairly easily by coming up with audacious clickbait titles that they know people will click.

Pre-internet rumors though....I think most of those were either playground rumors spread through communication errors or not knowing an answer and instead thinking up what they thought would be the most mysterious/cool response.
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Re: Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Post by sintzu » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:36 am

The first and likely biggest rumor regarding the franchise is AF and that kickstarted the trend of spreading flase information regarding the franchise. I think if AF didn't take off the way it did then the franchise wouldn't be surrpunded with so much false information.

Why do people spread this kind of info ? they want to make the next AF. they want their story, leak or whatever to be the next big thing that everyone talks about.

Although AF is just a joke or something that started in 19999, it's been a big part of the dragon ball community for over 17 years now. you can still find videos of fans talking about it and mods adding it to games.

When someone thinks of Ssj5, they think of AF and there's nothing anyone official will be able to do about that which might be why no one's tried to make an official Ssj5.
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Re: Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Post by PelicanDynasty » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:06 am

How odd I just listened to the old podcast episode about this a few hours ago. Link here if anyone is interested: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ySq2Cs8cHVU

The youtube videos I basically just see as run of the mill clickbait. Notice that those videos get good views but recieve tons of dislikes; I suspect they mostly come from casual fans who don't keep up with this stuff, click on it, and then see it's a bunch of bullshit. The nature of the internet (and YouTube) leads you to click on things even when you're fairly certain that they aren't interesting. After all, it takes 2-3 seconds to scope out the video, and it COULD be legit.

I know you've mentioned in the past that you don't understand why people would continually click on this stuff, and that I really have no answer for other than that people are dumb.

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Re: Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Post by precita » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:20 am

Sometimes oddly enough these people turn out right. For example since Super started in 2015 people posted fake videos about Super Saiyan Blue Vegito appearing eventually....and they were right. People speculated about Broly returning in canon...and they were right, sort of. Just this Broly doesn't have a penis.

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Re: Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Post by ecrockedboston » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:25 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:Whoa whoa whoa, easy there. I can tell you about casuals and normies who are just as obnoxious if not more. You are going to bit too far now.
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Re: Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:55 am

Dude, I love you but I take offense to be compared to a tumblrina complete with "Trigger Warnings". I know I'm probably misunderstanding you since you too are in the Autism spectrum and did have a hard time as a child because of it, though. And I meant what I said. I know the dark side of Autism all too well, and for the civil atmosphere here I wont elaborate, but the worst of of the worst when it comes to fake news are normal (I didnt want to say that word when compared to the Autism spectrum OR one's stance on the fandom, but I feel forced to use it.) people who dont know much of anime outside of Dragon Ball.

EDIT: Never mind, tfw doesnt mean "Trigger Warning" it apparently means "The Fuck What"...lol. Sorry about that dude.

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Re: Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Post by Cipher » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:54 am

PelicanDynasty wrote:How odd I just listened to the old podcast episode about this a few hours ago. Link here if anyone is interested: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ySq2Cs8cHVU

The youtube videos I basically just see as run of the mill clickbait. Notice that those videos get good views but recieve tons of dislikes; I suspect they mostly come from casual fans who don't keep up with this stuff, click on it, and then see it's a bunch of bullshit. The nature of the internet (and YouTube) leads you to click on things even when you're fairly certain that they aren't interesting. After all, it takes 2-3 seconds to scope out the video, and it COULD be legit.

I know you've mentioned in the past that you don't understand why people would continually click on this stuff, and that I really have no answer for other than that people are dumb.
I love that this post boils down to: Maybe people are just dumb.

And I'm like: Oh, shit. Maybe you're right; maybe I'm giving everyone too much benefit of the doubt.

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Re: Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Post by Footlong Shoe » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:20 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:tfw doesnt mean "Trigger Warning" it apparently means "The Fuck What"
It actually means "That Face/Feeling When", but that's off topic.

precita wrote:Sometimes oddly enough these people turn out right. For example since Super started in 2015 people posted fake videos about Super Saiyan Blue Vegito appearing eventually....and they were right. People speculated about Broly returning in canon...and they were right, sort of. Just this Broly doesn't have a penis.
Let's not forget that shortly before Super was announced, there were rumors of a new series backed with fake sources. There was also the rumor about a white-haired Super Saiyan villain which came true in the form of Merged Zamasu.

People are believing these rumors because they keep coming true. Thus these sources become credible, and whatever they say is trustworthy information to someone that doesn't know better.
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Re: Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Post by MarcBigleague » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:20 am

I don't think these things are worth paying any mind to. They just want you to click.

I've been watching PewDiePie controversy recently and even outside Dragon Ball there is fake news/clickbaiting. So yeah just don't click XD

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Re: Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Post by Hellspawn28 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:45 pm

precita wrote:Is it really just Dragonball? The Pokemon franchise has constantly had "fake Pokemon" passed off as real ones right before every new major game release into tricking people new designs are revealed, and this is going back 15-20 years. Japanese fans even go as far to mimic the Coro Coro scans that generally reveal new Pokemon games/anime stuff and make their own fanart out of it and pass it off as real. Not to mention the stuff with legendary pokemon and how to get Mew and whatever that's been going on since 1999, or all the glitches/fake stuff about the games.
Any major franchise will have fake news for click bait. I remember when Godzilla 2014 was still not out yet, there is a lot of websites with fan art for fake news. When I was a member on the Toho Kingdom forums, we had people always posting fake news of sites using unofficial art work for Godzilla's design.
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Re: Let's talk about fake Dragon Ball news/The series' relationship to rumors

Post by successoroffate » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:47 pm

"Alternative facts" fits so well.
The way I see it, it has to do with the extent fans all over the world can verify the news online and the language barrier.

If you're from a third world country where internet access is limited, you're going to try anything to satisfy your needs as to the franchise. Most of the Youtubers are to blame for exploiting those fans. Fake thumbnails means $$$$. There's one in particular who VegettoEX tried to confront on Twitter with little to no luck (MaSTAR Media, 343,000 Subscribers).
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