Things that grind your gears

[Jinzoningen MULE]

You are literally saying that from the 5% of the show you saw, it's a very safe assumption that the other 95% is the same.

It would be bizarre if it weren't similar, and DBZA definitely is that.

[Gog]

You are literally saying that from the 5% of the show you saw, it's a very safe assumption that the other 95% is the same.

It would be bizarre if it weren't similar, and DBZA definitely is that.

Yeah, it's similar but I would consider Dragon Ball Z Abridged to be plain better than Dragon Ball, at least in the Cell saga. And besides the point watching one episode does not mean that you've watched them all. Sure the events are similar, but the jokes aren't, the writing isn't similar, the characters are subtly different, the comedic style and quality of abridged has even changed and improved drastically over the years.

So if you've watched one episode of the first season and considered the jokes and the quality too be abysmal, then you would have no grounds too judge the latter seasons as the quality shoots up around after the Saiyan Saga and the jokes change around the Namek Saga.

If you watched the Namek Saga and considered the jokes too be childish, the quality of it too be average and lacking any emotional moments at all. Then you would have no grounds to judge the current saga, the Cell Saga, which has improved light years in all aspect, even having some emotional moments as well.

You simply cannot review something if you've watched 5% of the product.

[rereboy]

You are literally saying that from the 5% of the show you saw, it's a very safe assumption that the other 95% is the same.

It would be bizarre if it weren't similar, and DBZA definitely is that.

Similar =/= the same. Thinking that our assumption is very likely =/= actually knowing. Reviewing something that we know 5% of =/= reviewing something we know 100% of or almost 100% of.

We can think whatever we want and assume whatever we want, but that doesn't change the fact that a review made by someone who only knows 5% of the product is a poorly informed one. If you want to buy or check out a product, do you pay attention to the guys that know all the details of the product or to the guys that know about 5% of it...? I think that the answer should be obvious.

[ABED]

It's not a review. It's an overall impression.

I don't even know why and what you are trying to discuss. In principle, watching episodes in the correct order is better than random episodes so that no context is lost. This is true even in comedies and parodies because jokes can be call backs to earlier episodes. That's all I mentioned, and I mentioned just as a detail, not an important point.

Stop talking in the abstract. I get that generally speaking, it's best to have watched all or at least most of something to give a firm opinion, but in this case, I have the context. I've seen all of DB. And are you really implying that the difference between me liking Abridged and not comes down to call backs? Be specific. Give me examples. And I haven't just seen the early episodes. I've seen later episodes and the quality doesn't go up. Besides, you can usually tell from context if something is a callback.

[rereboy]

It's not a review. It's an overall impression.

I called it review just like I could have called it opinion or impression. The point is that that impression was about the whole show.

[ABED]

It's not a review. It's an overall impression.

I called it review just like I could have called it opinion or impression. The point is that that impression was about the whole show.

A review is much more specific. I've seen enough to state that I don't think the quality increases. You continually used the analogy of reviewing original works, but this isn't an original work. It's shortened DBZ with an audio track of jokes. The quality of the show is dependent on the jokes and the acting. Since I don't consider either of any discernable merit, I can safely say I think the show is awful and that's even with only having watched a couple random episodes with jokes that were mostly setup/punchline and most definitely not callbacks.

Just don't expect anyone to find your review/opinion relevant or knowlegeable and pay attention to it if you can't even say you know most of what you are reviewing.

I do know what I'm talking about because the people who are fans of it are constantly overblowing things. On the very rare occassion where they link to something to give me an example of the better quality in later seasons, they are ALWAYS false. The jokes are of the same quality, the acting isn't nearly as improved as they would have you believe and the idea that the kind of jokes are so much different from the earlier seasons is plain wrong. You don't need to have seen every episode to say that with certainty. The reason fans of DBZA don't pay attention to it is because they disagree. You don't need to have seen nearly as much of DBZA to make a firm statement in this regard, no matter what it's fans would have you believe.

[Bansho64]

How is anyone supposed to take anything you say with confidence if you haven't even seen that much of the show? You come in here and make bold statements like these,

This is where you are wrong. The show is ALWAYS like I've described it. It doesn't improve. I've seen clips from later portions of the series and it's the same quality of "writing".

But you haven't even seen 50% of what you're talking about. It doesn't make any sense.

[ABED]

How is anyone supposed to take anything you say with confidence if you haven't even seen that much of the show? You come in here and make bold statements like these,

This is where you are wrong. The show is ALWAYS like I've described it. It doesn't improve. I've seen clips from later portions of the series and it's the same quality of "writing".

But you haven't even seen 50% of what you're talking about. It doesn't make any sense.

Then have I just not watched the right episodes? Is it by mere chance that I watched an early episode and a later episode and the quality is the same?

I didn't laugh in "season" 1, and I'm not laughing in either the Freeza or Cell arc episodes. Is the difference really that I haven't watched everything that came before? Are their jokes really that dependent on preceding episodes? No. I've seen enough to know that's just not the case. I understand the humor, I just don't find it funny or clever. I'm not missing a bunch of in jokes that would otherwise vastly improve my experience. I've heard the performances and they aren't that much improved from the beginning. If I can't take that opinion seriously, how am I supposed to take the idea that the quality of the jokes is better over time?

And woul you guys ONCE provide specific counter examples?

[Bansho64]

I'm not missing a bunch of in jokes that would otherwise vastly improve my experience.

How do you know? You haven't watched it. That's what the numerous others here and myself have been trying to say.

[Anime Kitten]

Something I'm not really understanding is the point here. What exactly are you trying to convince ABED of? What is he trying to prove? I can't see any clear direction this conversation is going in at the moment.

[rereboy]

You continually used the analogy of reviewing original works, but this isn't an original work.

Untrue. I never mentioned original works only. I mentioned broad terms like shows, series, books, etc, precisely to refer to all kinds of things, original or not, parody or not, because it doesn't really matter what kind of things they are... In all of them, a person will only be actually really knowledgeable about them if they experience it all or almost all of it. Similarly, it doesn't matter if it's a review, an opinion or an impression because, no matter what it is, if it's about what the person hasn't actually experienced, and if in fact that person has only experienced a small part of what that review, opinion, impression is about, than that person is not really knowledgeable about it and that review, impression or opinion will be poorly informed.

The quality of the show is dependent on the jokes and the acting

Irrelevant. Whether the show is about humor, parody, jokes, drama, historical lessons, action, or whatever else it may be, if we watch just a small part of it and then state an review, opinion or impression about the quality of the whole show, we are just assuming what the rest of the show is like and our review, opinion or impression isn't actually really knowledgeable or well informed. What the show is about doesn't change this.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Something I'm not really understanding is the point here. What exactly are you trying to convince ABED of? What is he trying to prove? I can't see any clear direction this conversation is going in at the moment.

He doesn't like DBZA, they say he hasn't watched enough to know the difference. That's the long and the short of it.

[LuckyCat]

Yeah, I don't think ABED needs to see every episode of DBZA to offer his opinion that he doesn't like it. Sure, its quality improves over time, but the overall format of the show is the same. If you didn't like the format to begin with, nothing short of complete retooling going to fix that.

[Bansho64]

What exactly are you trying to convince ABED of?

I ain't really trying to convince him of anything. I'm just asking how he expects to make an opinion about a whole show he's barely seen. It'd be different if he were talking about specific things, but he's making some big assumptions about material he himself hasn't seen.

That's basically what's been going on.
Edit: Basically, it's what Jinzoningen MULE said above.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Yeah, I don't think ABED needs to see every episode of DBZA to offer his opinion that he doesn't like it. Sure, its quality improves over time, but the overall format of the show is the same. If you didn't like the format to begin with, nothing is going to help that.

Exactly. This isn't a show where the chemistry of the characters grow, or where the universe undergoes change. It's a string of lame jokes about a show that we watch, you don't have to watch that much to understand what it's about.

[rereboy]

Something I'm not really understanding is the point here. What exactly are you trying to convince ABED of? What is he trying to prove? I can't see any clear direction this conversation is going in at the moment.

He doesn't like DBZA, they say he hasn't watched enough to know the difference. That's the long and the short of it.

Actually, I'm talking about how it doesn't make sense for people to critique something that they have experienced little of and that it kind of "grinds my gears". It doesn't apply just to DBZA, but to any product or show.

[Kanassa]

Something I'm not really understanding is the point here. What exactly are you trying to convince ABED of? What is he trying to prove? I can't see any clear direction this conversation is going in at the moment.

He doesn't like DBZA, they say he hasn't watched enough to know the difference. That's the long and the short of it.

It's less trying to convince him of DBZA's quality, and more trying to prove how asinine it is to judge a show as a whole after barely watching a fraction of it.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

It's less trying to convince him of DBZA's quality, and more trying to prove how asinine it is to judge a show as a whole after barely watching a fraction of it.

But in DBZA's case, he's right in saying that the show doesn't get better. The production value improves, I guess, but the rest is sedentary.

[ABED]

You can't provide me one single example? I know I haven't watched it, for the reason that what I have watched is terrible. Give me a specific example of these in jokes.

Anime Kitten, I want the fans of that show to stop pretending that it's anything other than what it is - a parody. It's not a legit official dub, so please stop listing the actors among the list of actors to play DB roles. Stop claiming that those who aren't fans of it don't get it as if there's something to get. And please, for once, provide examples when arguing. I said that I think the voices on DBZA are a bunch of silly voices and the acting was terrible and someone claimed I was objectively wrong. Okay, disagree with me, but at least try to give me an example as a counter argument otherwise it just comes off as someone not liking that I don't like what they do.

Untrue. I never mentioned original works only. I mentioned broad terms like shows, series, books, etc, precisely to refer to all kinds of things, original or not, parody or not, because it doesn't really matter what kind of things they are...

It absolutely does because if you haven't read The Great Gatsby, but give an overall impression, you lack context to give any opinion. You don't know the plot, you don't know the characters. DBZA is a very specific example. It follows the series, so I have the context of plot and characters. I've also seen the dub and the Ocean dub. I know the context of the jokes they are going for and making fun of.

It'd be different if he were talking about specific things,

You AREN'T talking about specific things. You never bring up specific examples. Not once. You only talk broadly about not judging something you haven't seen much of. Generally, that's a good rule of thumb, but it doesn't apply here.

It's less trying to convince him of DBZA's quality, and more trying to prove how asinine it is to judge a show as a whole after barely watching a fraction of it.

[/quote]It's RANDOM! The show isn't like Buffy, Angel, or Parks and Rec. It's a bunch of random jokes strung together with a coating of DB. I've seen enough of DB to get it and that's mostly because there's very little to get.

[rereboy]

Yeah, I don't think ABED needs to see every episode of DBZA to offer his opinion that he doesn't like it. Sure, its quality improves over time, but the overall format of the show is the same. If you didn't like the format to begin with, nothing is going to help that.

Exactly. This isn't a show where the chemistry of the characters grow, or where the universe undergoes change. It's a string of lame jokes about a show that we watch, you don't have to watch that much to understand what it's about.

Understanding what it's about is not the same as being knowledgeable about it's overall quality. We can watch one episode of Battlestar Galactica and understand that it's a sci-fi show, with humans struggling to survive while being pursued by androids... but we wouldn't be very knowledgeable about the quality of the series just by watching a very small part of it.

It's less trying to convince him of DBZA's quality, and more trying to prove how asinine it is to judge a show as a whole after barely watching a fraction of it.

But in DBZA's case, he's right in saying that the show doesn't get better. The production value improves, I guess, but the rest is sedentary.

There's a difference in him assuming that the whole show is like that and someone else agreeing with him, and him being actually being knowledgeable about it.