"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Baggie_Saiyan]

He trained for months with Whis for it, he trained with Whis even longer than Goku did. I don't see how it was unearned, he earned it more than Goku earned God.

That's exactly it he didn't earn the right to train with them at all. Goku's right was his fight with Beerus, not only did he do well against him but kept up even when SSG timed out unlike Vegeta's short rage burst that fizzled out.

Even then him training longer than Goku doesn't mean anything it just means he trained he longer, you make it sound like training is a chore for these guys.

I don't see how Goku earned SSG at all. He did worse than Vegeta did without it.

I was talking about Goku earning his right to train. And even then Goku's SSG timed out and he still kept up unlike Vegeta who fizzled out once his rage boost ran out.

[kinisking]

That's exactly it he didn't earn the right to train with them at all. Goku's right was his fight with Beerus, not only did he do well against him but kept up even when SSG timed out unlike Vegeta's short rage burst that fizzled out.

Even then him training longer than Goku doesn't mean anything it just means he trained he longer, you make it sound like training is a chore for these guys.

I don't see how Goku earned SSG at all. He did worse than Vegeta did without it.

I was talking about Goku earning his right to train. And even then Goku's SSG timed out and he still kept up unlike Vegeta who fizzled out once his rage boost ran out.

Vegeta gave Whis food. That's all he needed to earn the right to train.

[Kanassa]

I hope it's a new form that makes Goku stronger than everyone else again, maybe even close to Beerus' level.

Cant call if you're being sarcastic here or not
I hope its a form exclusive to Goku, like how Ultimate is for Gohan.

Yeah I agree I never like that Vegeta has SSGSS, the biggest unearned power up in the entire series. I know Goku has SSGSSKK but it has limited use I want Goku to have something hard over Vegeta.

The biggest unearned power up in the series will always be mystic

[TheUltimateNinja]

Cant call if you're being sarcastic here or not
I hope its a form exclusive to Goku, like how Ultimate is for Gohan.

Yeah I agree I never like that Vegeta has SSGSS, the biggest unearned power up in the entire series. I know Goku has SSGSSKK but it has limited use I want Goku to have something hard over Vegeta.

The biggest unearned power up in the series will always be mystic

He had to sit around for a couple hours for that power up, dude. It's tough work.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Quick question... if the tournament will have proper rules like not using items and gadgets are 17 and 18 allowed?

Their whole body is one big gadget done by Gero

The tournament won't have many rules, if the preliminary is anything to go off of. Even if they did, being a cyborg doesn't count as being machinary any more than the Metal Men.

[Ki Breaker]

He had to sit around for a couple hours for that power up, dude. It's tough work.

While buu was killing everyone and his brothers might defuse anytime and get killed too..
It wasn't physically taxing but it was mentally taxing..
It was no more of an asspull than goku SS3 which came out of nowhere z at least we see how Gohan attained it..

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Vegeta gave Whis food. That's all he needed to earn the right to train.

Goku had to fight Beerus and then keep up once the SSG power up faded he was in a literal life and death battle and only survived cuz he impressed Beerus and the equivalent for this for Vegeta was him giving Whis food. It's dumb shitty writing. Toriyama skirting around it made it more of an "asspull" but Toei somehow made it worse especially by not even explaining how in the hell he achieved in the first place!!

[kinisking]

Vegeta gave Whis food. That's all he needed to earn the right to train.

Goku had to fight Beerus and then keep up once the SSG power up faded he was in a literal life and death battle and only survived cuz he impressed Beerus and the equivalent for this for Vegeta was him giving Whis food. It's dumb shitty writing. Toriyama skirting around it made it more of an "asspull" but Toei somehow made it worse especially by not even explaining how in the hell he achieved in the first place!!

Except Whis didn't train Goku solely because of his fight against Beerus. Goku's fight against Beerus earned him nothing more than his survival. How is it shitty to have Whis train someone in exchange for something he likes ?

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Vegeta gave Whis food. That's all he needed to earn the right to train.

Goku had to fight Beerus and then keep up once the SSG power up faded he was in a literal life and death battle and only survived cuz he impressed Beerus and the equivalent for this for Vegeta was him giving Whis food. It's dumb shitty writing. Toriyama skirting around it made it more of an "asspull" but Toei somehow made it worse especially by not even explaining how in the hell he achieved in the first place!!

Except Whis didn't train Goku solely because of his fight against Beerus. Goku's fight against Beerus earned him nothing more than his survival. How is it shitty to have Whis train someone in exchange for something he likes ?

So you think Vegeta deserves to train as much as Goku then because Toei wrote that he made Whis food. ? I'm sorry but that's dumb, something like Whis saying he will train Vegeta if he can make SSG power himself like Goku would be MUCH better.

But even then ignoring all that we still have no idea how he got the power SSG let alone SSGSS. That's what makes it unearned, at least we got to see Gohan achieve Ultimate. But for Vegeta if you follow the movies there is ZERO explanation and if you follow the retelling there is still ZERO explanation. It's completely unearned.

[Noah]

I always will prefer BoG and RoF movies aproach, that Vegeta in some point did the ritual became a SSG and then trained along with Goku on Beerus's planet.

[Boo Machine]

I always will prefer BoG and RoF movies aproach, that Vegeta in some point did the ritual became a SSG and then trained along with Goku on Beerus's planet.

Was it ever implied Vegeta did the ritual in the movies?

[MisteryOne]

I always will prefer BoG and RoF movies aproach, that Vegeta in some point did the ritual became a SSG and then trained along with Goku on Beerus's planet.

Was it ever implied Vegeta did the ritual in the movies?

Not really. He said he would be the one to become a God the next time in BoG, but he was never said to go past the ritual. In fact, Toriyama only said by the time of RoF that Goku was the one who started training with Whis and Vegeta followed him, which is contradicted in the anime version.

I never had a problem with Vegeta archiving SSGSS because he also archieved SS by another asspull. The real problem imo is that the form itself killed the «I would never imagined there was a power like this that I can't archieve on my own» frok Goku in BoG. Its even worse now that we know that they can still use the old SS forms so SSGSS is just the new SS4 and has made SSG introduction pointless. And no, I dont buy the two base theory, I prefer to go with the manga's logic (which again suffers from the problem of SSGSS leaving SSG obsolete except under special circunstances, but at least the form has an use).

[kinisking]

Goku had to fight Beerus and then keep up once the SSG power up faded he was in a literal life and death battle and only survived cuz he impressed Beerus and the equivalent for this for Vegeta was him giving Whis food. It's dumb shitty writing. Toriyama skirting around it made it more of an "asspull" but Toei somehow made it worse especially by not even explaining how in the hell he achieved in the first place!!

Except Whis didn't train Goku solely because of his fight against Beerus. Goku's fight against Beerus earned him nothing more than his survival. How is it shitty to have Whis train someone in exchange for something he likes ?

So you think Vegeta deserves to train as much as Goku then because Toei wrote that he made Whis food. ? I'm sorry but that's dumb, something like Whis saying he will train Vegeta if he can make SSG power himself like Goku would be MUCH better.

But even then ignoring all that we still have no idea how he got the power SSG let alone SSGSS. That's what makes it unearned, at least we got to see Gohan achieve Ultimate. But for Vegeta if you follow the movies there is ZERO explanation and if you follow the retelling there is still ZERO explanation. It's completely unearned.

Yes, I think that's perfectly fine. Whis barely gives a shit that Goku did well. Vegeta gave Whis something he wanted, so Whis gave Vegeta something he wanted. I don't see the problem.

Vegeta trained. That's all we need to know. It's like saying his original SS and ss2 transformation or Goku's ss2 and ss2 transformation was unearned because we had no explanation and it wasn't shown.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Except Whis didn't train Goku solely because of his fight against Beerus. Goku's fight against Beerus earned him nothing more than his survival. How is it shitty to have Whis train someone in exchange for something he likes ?

So you think Vegeta deserves to train as much as Goku then because Toei wrote that he made Whis food. ? I'm sorry but that's dumb, something like Whis saying he will train Vegeta if he can make SSG power himself like Goku would be MUCH better.

But even then ignoring all that we still have no idea how he got the power SSG let alone SSGSS. That's what makes it unearned, at least we got to see Gohan achieve Ultimate. But for Vegeta if you follow the movies there is ZERO explanation and if you follow the retelling there is still ZERO explanation. It's completely unearned.

Yes, I think that's perfectly fine. Whis barely gives a shit that Goku did well. Vegeta gave Whis something he wanted, so Whis gave Vegeta something he wanted. I don't see the problem.

Vegeta trained. That's all we need to know. It's like saying his original SS and ss2 transformation or Goku's ss2 and ss2 transformation was unearned because we had no explanation and it wasn't shown.

Well my main problem is more so out verse than in I guess, in verse "explanation" that Toei got didn't help if they showcased him going through some sort of hard ship I'd be like fine whatever but the whole Freeza movie felt like an asspull and so glad he didn't get the kill but even then that makes this whole SSGSS thing even worse since it didn't even make Vegeta accomplish anything. I am convinced it was for mechandise I am sure someone at Toei or Shueisha said to Toriyama if you make a new form make one for Vegeta too. Ultimately I guess I shouldn't complain too much about it I suppose since I do like how it looks on him in RF clothes at least lol

& Yeah I will actually go with that especially Vegeta getting SS. In fact now thinking about it it's much worse then him getting SSGSS.
The only truly earned transformations are Goku to SS, Gohan to SS2 and Trunks to Ikari/Rage.

[Lord Frieza]

Well when it comes to SSGSS Black gave us some ideaof what it is.

He called Vegeta a "Saiyan cloaked in godly ki", that implies, at least to me, that the form is not a natural power to the saiyan race like the normal forms....its something supernatural. As in the saiyan is taping into an outside power source.

With that in mind my theory is SSG is an artificial means of accessing this world of godly power with a ritual while SSGSS is when a saiyan learns to tap into that power on their own.

Edit: Realized I had not said my point yet

Anyway what I was getting to is that the god ki Goku and Vegeta have accessed is not power source within themselves like SS but an external one that would be almost impossible for them to reach on their own with no help. With Goku he had the ritual but even that might not have been enough to push him to SSB on his own.

The key is Whis. He is an ancient martial arts master who specializes in training gods of destruction, beings who were once mortal and must learn to harness and control their new destroyer god ki. What better person to teach Vegeta and later Goku, to tap into the world of god ki.

[Freeza9000]

Does this imply that Vegetto will be making his comeback without the time limit effect? Hmmm.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Does this imply that Vegetto will be making his comeback without the time limit effect? Hmmm.

No. That's the rubberiest, flimsiest, longest stretch I've ever heard. The concept of being outside of time and space doesn't literally mean that time stands still in this context, it just means nothingness.

[Simere]

Vegeta gave Whis food. That's all he needed to earn the right to train.

Goku had to fight Beerus and then keep up once the SSG power up faded he was in a literal life and death battle and only survived cuz he impressed Beerus and the equivalent for this for Vegeta was him giving Whis food. It's dumb shitty writing. Toriyama skirting around it made it more of an "asspull" but Toei somehow made it worse especially by not even explaining how in the hell he achieved in the first place!!

Except Whis didn't train Goku solely because of his fight against Beerus. Goku's fight against Beerus earned him nothing more than his survival.

Whis said he'd reward Goku for fighting Beerus. He was obviously talking about training.

[Sodhi]

#81 Spoilers
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[SansrivaaL]

Wait what? U4? isnt Bergamo from U9? whats happening?