Most distressing thing in Dragonball?

[ABED]

The show already had an end in the 90's.

Exactly. The original story's 10 arcs will always be there as one completed story. If we get something else and it's good then great, more content to enjoy. if it's bad then oh well, it has no affect on the original story so there's nothing lost.

First, even before then, I do think there were several points that he could've and probably should've ended his story (e.g. the Freeza arc). Second, just because a show or movie series is successful doesn't necessitate continuing it. Look at Seinfeld. It was enormously successful, but ended when it was on top. And finally, I know the series was completed back in the 90s, and while I could just stick to that, I know there are more episodes. It's like any series where you can just stop the story. I still know there are sequels that are inferior. It doesn't taint the quality of the good movies, but it still does bug me when things get run into the ground. For instance, with the Alien and Terminator franchises.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

The idea that people can achieve and lose mind-reading powers with no apparent cause.

[floofychan333]

Watching everyone eat pork after the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai while Oolong is there.

[sintzu]

The fact that the afterlife can be physically destroyed. The revelation would frighten the shit out of anyone.

The DBverse truly is a shitty place to live in no matter where you are

Wasn't that an anime only thing ? I remember in the manga Buu went directly to the Kai's planet unlike the anime where he went to the afterlife before. did they say it could be destroyed somewhere else ?

Watching everyone eat pork after the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai while Oolong is there.

When I think about it, that is messed up. for he knew that could've been his parents.

[King-K9]

The entirety of the History of Trunks special.

[ekrolo2]

The fact that the afterlife can be physically destroyed. The revelation would frighten the shit out of anyone.

The DBverse truly is a shitty place to live in no matter where you are

Wasn't that an anime only thing ? I remember in the manga Buu went directly to the Kai's planet unlike the anime where he went to the afterlife before. did they say it could be destroyed somewhere else ?

If he can go to the Supreme World of the Kais, he can wreck the afterlife too. After all, Goku both dead and alive can go there thanks to IT, with Kai Kai copied by Kid Boo, there's virtually no limit to where he can travel to.

[successoroffate]

The show already had an end in the 90's.

Exactly. The original story's 10 arcs will always be there as one completed story. If we get something else and it's good then great, more content to enjoy. if it's bad then oh well, it has no affect on the original story so there's nothing lost.

First, even before then, I do think there were several points that he could've and probably should've ended his story (e.g. the Freeza arc). Second, just because a show or movie series is successful doesn't necessitate continuing it. Look at Seinfeld. It was enormously successful, but ended when it was on top. And finally, I know the series was completed back in the 90s, and while I could just stick to that, I know there are more episodes. It's like any series where you can just stop the story. I still know there are sequels that are inferior. It doesn't taint the quality of the good movies, but it still does bug me when things get run into the ground. For instance, with the Alien and Terminator franchises.

Seinfeld was meant to continue but Jerry is the one who said stop, not the network. With Jerry leaving, they couldn't continue with the show. Terminator is a mess but there's no way GT put the Franchise on the same boat as Terminator and I don't see Super doing the same neither. For me, story wise, GT's episode 64 is still the proper end of the franchise. That can change though, with the Direction Super may take after the Universe Survival Arc ends. Until then, ending or not ending the franchise, it's all a matter of taste.

[ABED]

I know all that, but that's the point. He wanted to stop and the studio agreed. If the people involved want it to end, then it should end. I'm glad that the people who hold the rights to Back to the Future don't want it to be continued or rebooted. Even if they could get Michael J. Fox and Christopher Lloyd, a sequel won't happen regardless of the series' massive success. I understand the business side of things, but it's myopic to only think of success in such a narrow way. Also, series can experience dips in popularity. There's no guarantee for success.

[successoroffate]

As much as I hate to say it (Cause I love GT), They apparently did learn from GT and finally decided to end it.

[sintzu]

First, I do think there were several points that he could've and probably should've ended his story (e.g. the Freeza arc).

Second, just because a show or movie series is successful doesn't necessitate continuing it.

I know the series was completed back in the 90s, and while I could just stick to that, I know there are more episodes. It's like any series where you can just stop the story.

It still does bug me when things get run into the ground.

Regardless of where it should've or could've ended, Toriyama found multiple ways to justify it going on beyond Freeza.

This is very true but that's not how companies think, in today's entertainment era, franchises built on popular IPs are the fastest and safest way to make money and it seems like everyone is jumping on board of that mindset instead of taking the time to build new IPs.

I'd understand this if we were talking about GT cause that came out a week after the original and was pretty similar to it so you could look at it as being a part of it but I think a 20 year later sequel is a different case cause of how different it is from the original. this doesn't just apply to DB but any franchise that gets a continuation after 2 decades of being complete.

It does with me as well which is why I hope they at least take time to make sure new stories are done right. Super so far has been mixed to good but it's not over yet so I can't fully say weather or not it's justified from a creative point of view but hopefully it will be by the time it is over.

[ABED]

This is very true but that's not how companies think, in today's entertainment era, franchises built on popular IPs are the fastest and safest way to make money and it seems like everyone is jumping on board of that mindset instead of taking the time to build new IPs.

But have you ever heard the adage "no one in Hollywood knows anything"? Just because IP's have a built in fanbase that doesn't mean it's a safe bet especially with the amount of money being put up for these films. There's a potential for big success, but there's also a potential for huge losses.

I don't think the continuation issue is a matter of years. If I know it's continuing, it still bugs me. T3 came out a decade after T2 and that still bothers me. Sometimes, you just can't recapture the magic.

And Toriyama did his best, but after Freeza, the way the story continued felt like it was continued because it was successful.

[sintzu]

I understand the business side of things, but it's myopic to only think of success in such a narrow way.

Also, series can experience dips in popularity. There's no guarantee for success.

It's so narrow that DB, Naruto and One Piece wouldn't be a thing now if that's how the company thought back in the day. All 3 of those would've probably been cancelled after a few months if they weren't a mega hit from day one that could be turned into a franchise.

DB's first arc wasn't popular but that didn't stop the people involved with it from trying new things to get it off the ground. If I'm not mistaken, it wasn't until the King Piccolo arc where DB really took off, that was nearly 3 years into its run. as far as I know, new manga today don't get that kind of time to build their stories.

GT's episode 64 is still the proper end of the franchise. That can change though, with the Direction Super may take after the Universe Survival Arc ends.

I don't think Super will end like that. Chances are it'll be open ended so that Toei can continue with a new show. GT's ending on the other hand gave the story a definitive end.

[ABED]

DB wasn't a huge success right off the bat. It started gaining popularity WELL before the Piccolo Daimao arc. It started gaining momentum around the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai.

I find it odd that fans think that every single business is so limited in its definition of success that they will milk every franchise dry and don't have the guts to end things when it makes sense. Not every business is run the same way and it's ridiculous to think that franchises are a safe bet. No one in Hollywood knows anything.

[sintzu]

Just because IP's have a built in fanbase that doesn't mean it's a safe bet.

And Toriyama did his best, but after Freeza, the way the story continued felt like it was continued because it was successful.

Nothing is 100% guaranteed but for companies, spending on an established franchise is a lot safer than a new one. it sucks cause there are a lot of people out there like manga writers who can't get their foot in the door cause they're not established big names and no one wants to give them a chance.

He said that he continued it after Baba, Piccolo JR, Freeza & Cell because it was so successful so he was doing that for awhile before Freeza. the reason fans probably don't know that is because of how good a writer he was. After I watched Z and DB, I thought he had the whole thing planned out, never in a million years did it cross my mind that he was making things up as he went along because of it being financially successful.

[ABED]

Nothing is 100% guaranteed but for companies, spending on an established franchise is a lot safer than a new one.

Is it? I can think of plenty of franchises where a ton of money was spent and it didn't get nearly the returns as newer ones that spent considerably less.

The Cell arc does feel like he's running out of ideas to continue the story. At that point, it doesn't feel like an organic escalation of threats the heroes faced to that point.

it sucks cause there are a lot of people out there like manga writers who can't get their foot in the door cause they're not established big names and no one wants to give them a chance.

These days, that doesn't sound right. There are a lot more methods of distribution available to people than before.

[sintzu]

DB wasn't a huge success right off the bat. It started gaining popularity WELL before the Piccolo Daimao arc. It started gaining momentum around the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai.

I find it odd that fans think that every single business is so limited in its definition of success that they will milk every franchise dry and don't have the guts to end things when it makes sense.

It's ridiculous to think that franchises are a safe bet. No one in Hollywood knows anything.

I know it started with the 21st Tenkaichi, I meant by the time they reached Piccolo is where it was a fully established brand name. from the 21st Tenkaichi to Piccolo is a 100+ chapters of build up, something that authors aren't given today.

They think that because that's what buesinesses are doing now. Look at star wars now, we're getting one movie a year and there's a movement to have 2 a year.

It's Japan as well. Look at DB, it went from being a manga with a beginning, a middle & an end to a never ending merchandise franchise like Pokemon.

[ABED]

At least with Pokémon, you can justify it storywise that there are new species being discovered. With DB, it's different. At a certain point the scale of the battles just became too much and didn't make much sense. Hell even the supposed world building feels manufactured. There's always some new level of hierarchy that even the newest God didn't seem to know before.

I much prefer shows like Justified and Friends and Breaking Bad that knew when to end their runs and had studios that stood behind their creators. Even in the days of franchises, that's not impossible.

[sintzu]

Is it? I can think of plenty of franchises where a ton of money was spent and it didn't get nearly the returns as newer ones that spent considerably less.

The Cell arc does feel like he's running out of ideas to continue the story. At that point, it doesn't feel like an organic escalation of threats the heroes faced to that point.

These days, that doesn't sound right. There are a lot more methods of distribution available to people than before.

Franchises as big as DB and Star wars ?

Cell was a mixture of Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo & Freeza's Cells and Buu was an immortal demon. both of those are a lot bigger than Freeza was.

True, but nothing will get them the noteriety that being in a big company would.

[sintzu]

At a certain point the scale of the battles just became too much and didn't make much sense.

I much prefer shows like Justified and Friends and Breaking Bad that knew when to end their runs and had studios that stood behind their creators. Even in the days of franchises, that's not impossible.

That's one of the reason why Toriyama ended the original when he did, he didn't think Goku could get any stronger than he was.

It's not but I think it'll take a major franchise to completely fail for them to realize that they need to invest in new IPs.

[ABED]

Is it? I can think of plenty of franchises where a ton of money was spent and it didn't get nearly the returns as newer ones that spent considerably less.

The Cell arc does feel like he's running out of ideas to continue the story. At that point, it doesn't feel like an organic escalation of threats the heroes faced to that point.

These days, that doesn't sound right. There are a lot more methods of distribution available to people than before.

Franchises as big as DB and Star wars ?

Cell was a mixture of Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo & Freeza's Cells and Buu was an immortal demon. both of those are a lot bigger than Freeza was.

True, but nothing will get them the noteriety that being in a big company would.

Sure, they were conveyed as bigger than Freeza but did they do much that Freeza didn't? What was shown (not said) that conveyed their danger more than Freeza?

And the new Star Wars movies have sucked. Their size is meaningless. There was no guarantee that the new film would've been a success. Franchises can wane in popularity. I feel like this comic book movie boom has already crested and even the established brands are having to take creative risks and turn conventions on their head to remain successful.

It's not but I think it'll take a major franchise to completely fail for them to realize that they need to invest in new IPs.

And that's happened before. There's also been successes with new IP's. One of the reasons I'm liking the MCU so much is because they aren't just leaning on their most popular characters. They built it on the shoulders of the relatively unknown Iron Man and then expanded to obscure characters. DC meanwhile can't get past Batman. We see how well that's working out.