Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Freeza and Frost are the only ones shown to have created restriction forms to suppress their power.
Why does nobody remember Kuzira? And you haven't actually shown me proof for how Cold's in his true form. You also can't counter with the fact that only Freeza, Frost and (Kuzira) are the only ones to make suppression forms as that would mean he would look similar too Freeza's true form. Because that is the so called true form of the race, something that has been shown to us and stated to us three whole times.
Kuriza isn't even canon. Also, Toriyama said Freeza and Cold were mutants so that's not what their true form looks like, Freeza probably just looks like that because he's even more mutated than Cold.
Kuzira was created by Akira Toriyama, also I like the little guy... But here's the thing Toriyama outright stated that Freeza inherited the mutant genes from King Cold, he never stated or even implied that Freeza mutated even further beyond King Cold, so that explanation doesn't hold up.
Heck every design of the true form that Akira Toriyama designs follows a similar pattern.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]
So the idea that being a mutant influences what the true form looks like doesn't hold up as well. As they all clearly follow a similar pattern. Also keep in mind that all of these designs are from Akira Toriyama himself.
Gog wrote:
Why does nobody remember Kuzira? And you haven't actually shown me proof for how Cold's in his true form. You also can't counter with the fact that only Freeza, Frost and (Kuzira) are the only ones to make suppression forms as that would mean he would look similar too Freeza's true form. Because that is the so called true form of the race, something that has been shown to us and stated to us three whole times.
Kuriza isn't even canon. Also, Toriyama said Freeza and Cold were mutants so that's not what their true form looks like, Freeza probably just looks like that because he's even more mutated than Cold.
Kuzira was created by Akira Toriyama, also I like the little guy... But here's the thing Toriyama outright stated that Freeza inherited the mutant genes from King Cold, he never stated or even implied that Freeza mutated even further beyond King Cold, so that explanation doesn't hold up.
Heck every design of the true form that Akira Toriyama designs follows a similar pattern.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]
So the idea that being a mutant influences what the true form looks like doesn't hold up as well.
All of those guys are mutants, though. And if King Cold could transform he would have done so instead of getting oneshotted.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Kuriza isn't even canon. Also, Toriyama said Freeza and Cold were mutants so that's not what their true form looks like, Freeza probably just looks like that because he's even more mutated than Cold.
Kuzira was created by Akira Toriyama, also I like the little guy... But here's the thing Toriyama outright stated that Freeza inherited the mutant genes from King Cold, he never stated or even implied that Freeza mutated even further beyond King Cold, so that explanation doesn't hold up.
Heck every design of the true form that Akira Toriyama designs follows a similar pattern.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]
So the idea that being a mutant influences what the true form looks like doesn't hold up as well.
All of those guys are mutants, though. And if King Cold could transform he would have done so instead of getting oneshotted.
Yeah, their all mutants. King Cold included. Honestly I can only find two explanations for his behavior on earth. He's either a mental midget, or the forms had been hit by the mother of all retcon's turning them from suppression's into augmentations.
ABED wrote:Hell, Death Note is the best example of this. You're following the villain of the story (Well, at least through the first part, I never made it to the second half of the series), but you're invested in him succeeding for the most part.
Ok, no. The show doesn't do that. It totally frames Light as a despicable motherfucker, and leads the viewer to root for L. (or Mello in the second half) I honestly don't get people who root for Light. Even before he got the Death Note he was a fuckin' prick.
ABED wrote:Hell, Death Note is the best example of this. You're following the villain of the story (Well, at least through the first part, I never made it to the second half of the series), but you're invested in him succeeding for the most part.
Ok, no. The show doesn't do that. It totally frames Light as a despicable motherfucker, and leads the viewer to root for L. (or Mello in the second half) I honestly don't get people who root for Light. Even before he got the Death Note he was a fuckin' prick.
L was also a fucking prick who detained and tortured a girl for 2 months despite the fact that he had no real evidence besides his own intuition.
ABED wrote:Hell, Death Note is the best example of this. You're following the villain of the story (Well, at least through the first part, I never made it to the second half of the series), but you're invested in him succeeding for the most part.
Ok, no. The show doesn't do that. It totally frames Light as a despicable motherfucker, and leads the viewer to root for L. (or Mello in the second half) I honestly don't get people who root for Light. Even before he got the Death Note he was a fuckin' prick.
L was also a fucking prick who detained and tortured a girl for 2 months despite the fact that he had no real evidence besides his own intuition.
Hrm... Maybe I've underestimated the situation entirely. I guess Death Note is one of those shows where different people chose a different side based on their own moral compass. I think L is a fucking genius character who's my favorite of the entire show and still think killing him halfway through was the biggest mistake Death Note made. (Second biggest being making boring ass Mello the new focus) Similar to the anime Shiki where people debate whether the humans or the Shiki were in the right, or in The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim where people debate whether the Imperials or Stormcloaks are the right faction. (Even though not picking a side at all turns out to be the best option because it leads to peace between both) I guess this type of thing is a different beast entirely and isn't really the best example for either side of the argument since no matter what people will disagree. It's almost a genre in and of it self, so yeah, fuck it. Bad example then for either of us to use. (I would debate all day why L was in the right the whole time though since I love that kind of fictional moral debate stuff, but it'd be off-topic. XD)
PS: He was totally right though. Misa WAS the second Kira.
The Kienzan apparently being capable of cutting through anything. If it took a long time to charge or a massive amount of ki to make, I could see that as a good counter balance but I don't like it being unstoppable if you can just spam it the way Krillin does against Freeza.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:The Kienzan apparently being capable of cutting through anything. If it took a long time to charge or a massive amount of ki to make, I could see that as a good counter balance but I don't like it being unstoppable if you can just spam it the way Krillin does against Freeza.
ekrolo2 wrote:The Kienzan apparently being capable of cutting through anything. If it took a long time to charge or a massive amount of ki to make, I could see that as a good counter balance but I don't like it being unstoppable if you can just spam it the way Krillin does against Freeza.
Cell tanks it in the anime.
Which I like, it shows it has a limit that you can eventually hit provided you throw it at someone tough enough. But according to everything else its basically unstoppable.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:The Kienzan apparently being capable of cutting through anything. If it took a long time to charge or a massive amount of ki to make, I could see that as a good counter balance but I don't like it being unstoppable if you can just spam it the way Krillin does against Freeza.
Cell tanks it in the anime.
Which I like, it shows it has a limit that you can eventually hit provided you throw it at someone tough enough. But according to everything else its basically unstoppable.
Kai is the new canon, so it would suggest that as long as the enemy is 10,000x stronger it won't work.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Cell tanks it in the anime.
Which I like, it shows it has a limit that you can eventually hit provided you throw it at someone tough enough. But according to everything else its basically unstoppable.
Kai is the new canon, so it would suggest that as long as the enemy is 10,000x stronger it won't work.
The recent episodes of Super tend to disagree
Like Yamcha's DBZ baseball team and Gohan's odd storyline featuring manga only characters but referencing Z only filler.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:
Which I like, it shows it has a limit that you can eventually hit provided you throw it at someone tough enough. But according to everything else its basically unstoppable.
Kai is the new canon, so it would suggest that as long as the enemy is 10,000x stronger it won't work.
The recent episodes of Super tend to disagree
Like Yamcha's DBZ baseball team and Gohan's odd storyline featuring manga only characters but referencing Z only filler.
ekrolo2 wrote:The Kienzan apparently being capable of cutting through anything. If it took a long time to charge or a massive amount of ki to make, I could see that as a good counter balance but I don't like it being unstoppable if you can just spam it the way Krillin does against Freeza.
Cell tanks it in the anime.
Which I like, it shows it has a limit that you can eventually hit provided you throw it at someone tough enough. But according to everything else its basically unstoppable.
I want it to stay that way. I want the Kienzan to remain unstoppable. Just so that the possibility of Krillin killing the Omni-King still exists.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Cell tanks it in the anime.
Which I like, it shows it has a limit that you can eventually hit provided you throw it at someone tough enough. But according to everything else its basically unstoppable.
I want it to stay that way. I want the Kienzan to remain unstoppable. Just so that the possibility of Krillin killing the Omni-King still exists.
If it's truly unstoppable, they're all retards. Piccolo said everyone giving it all they've got would still do nothing to Beerus, but if Kuririn's Kienzan is truly unstoppable it would easily kill him.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:What filler does Gohan's storyline reference?
DBZ episode 205 has a filler storyline concerning a Great Saiyaman movie but the robbers in the Super episode showed up only in the manga. Wrap your head around that
Lord Beerus wrote:I want it to stay that way. I want the Kienzan to remain unstoppable. Just so that the possibility of Krillin killing the Omni-King still exists.
Who needs that when you've got Sorbet's laser floating around in the wastelands of Earth
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:What filler does Gohan's storyline reference?
DBZ episode 205 has a filler storyline concerning a Great Saiyaman movie but the robbers in the Super episode showed up only in the manga. Wrap your head around that
In that case the true canon is some combination of Kai and the manga and whatever Toriyama thinks of.
Also, one thing that I just recently realized and grinds my gears is that Kuririn totally could have killed Beerus by catching him off guard.
Lord Beerus wrote:I want it to stay that way. I want the Kienzan to remain unstoppable. Just so that the possibility of Krillin killing the Omni-King still exists.
Who needs that when you've got Sorbet's laser floating around in the wastelands of Earth
Are you a madman, ekrolo2? That weapon of mass destruction could bring about the end of the multiverse itself. It must remain untouched.
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Lord Beerus wrote:I want it to stay that way. I want the Kienzan to remain unstoppable. Just so that the possibility of Krillin killing the Omni-King still exists.
Who needs that when you've got Sorbet's laser floating around in the wastelands of Earth
Are you a madman, ekrolo2? That weapon of mass destruction could bring about the end of the multiverse itself. It must remained untouched.
We gotta find a hairy-footed midget to use it, those guys are great with rings of power!
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
One does not simply walk into the wastelands of Earth...
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
ABED wrote:One does not simply walk into the wastelands of Earth...
I don't know how you can avoid doing that since 90% of Earth IS a barren wasteland
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
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[/spoiler]
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