The two-base theory can't work (whole god ki thing)

[Desassina]

How can I make this simpler? Just look at a few examples that we had throughout the series, and you'll see the answer right away, should you avoid defending a long running dogma.

Cell had access to his full power without getting bulky, but he chose to against Trunks from a suppressed state, and against Gohan after unleashing it all. Grades are like mutators of power.
Gohan could still access Super Saiyan when he unleashed his full power in Battle of Gods. He used it as a shortcut in Resurrection of F for when he couldn't unleash it all. He didn't against Boo.
Vegeta surpassed a SSJ3. Gohan did not ascend to charge up an attack against Boo's cocoon, but his power was greater than what Kibito had seen at the tournament, when Gohan was a SSJ2.

The way I see it, the bigger their range at base, the more powerful their transformation, which allows a few shortcuts or mutators to be weaker than their full power, even if they look stronger. So, when Gotenks was a SSJ3, he increased his strength from power that was lower than what Vegeta had already surpassed at base.

[ryan s]

We know for a fact that Goku is some kind of prodigy compared to past Super Saiyan God users as evidenced by Beerus being so surprised that it didn't run out when he thought it did. This is because Goku "made the power his own", but my current theory is that this does NOT mean Goku kept all of that power after the fight. It just means he kept it longer than he should have (when he went Super Saiyan), gradually lost it (which the entire purpose of the ki-leaking Whis training was to stop), and showed the capacity to reach that level again by non-ritual means. Also, remember when Goku went Super Saiyan Red one final time at the end of the BoG fight? What's the point of that if regular SSG1 now held all of SSJG's power? I think that proves that Base/SSJ1 Goku at least doesn't have all of it, and that puts his lesser forms in a huge guessing range that other characters could conceivably catch up to.

Most of the dissonance between the anime and manga is that anime Goku did something long-term with the ritual that manga Goku didn't. If you lessen the impact of what that thing was, they're a lot more reconcilable (like the SSG form actually doing something for Goku that Base doesn't), and the incredible feats of Base Goku and Vegeta afterwards can just be explained by time or training the same way Buu and Gohan's are. (And we can say that Vegeta was also a prodigy in harnessing God power if it keeps Whis's training from being totally broken.)

it is stated by the narrator later on that he still had the power and that Vegeta too was training to reach it episode 17 intro i think and it was stated by Vegeta and the narrator he surpassed SSG, so your theory is wrong and makes no sense, nothing indicates Goku got weaker nor is there a reason to even believe he got any weaker

[dragon boss z]

To me it just seems like they are ignoring Goku absorbed god power into his base. Goku's base did not really look any stronger than Gohan's or Buu during his match with Bergamo.

[Bulma's Foot Masseur]

it is stated by the narrator later on that he still had the power and that Vegeta too was training to reach it episode 17 intro i think and it was stated by Vegeta and the narrator he surpassed SSG, so your theory is wrong and makes no sense, nothing indicates Goku got weaker nor is there a reason to even believe he got any weaker

None of the explanations make any sense, but this is mostly me trying to make anime and manga logic somewhat compatible to keep one or the other from being hilariously wrong. (It's a failed pursuit, I know.)

[ryan s]

it is stated by the narrator later on that he still had the power and that Vegeta too was training to reach it episode 17 intro i think and it was stated by Vegeta and the narrator he surpassed SSG, so your theory is wrong and makes no sense, nothing indicates Goku got weaker nor is there a reason to even believe he got any weaker

None of the explanations make any sense, but this is mostly me trying to make anime and manga logic somewhat compatible to keep one or the other from being hilariously wrong. (It's a failed pursuit, I know.)

It's not that your logic is bad, just like you said Super is a failed pursuit

[miguelnuva1]

Saiyan beyond God looks like it existed in Resurrection F then the uni 6 arc made the two base theory pop up and now in super the original gold forms are back and saiyan beyond God has been retconed.

[Grimlock]

The possibility to transform into Super Saiyan is one of a bunch of reasons Saiyan beyond God is a thing, actually. If Goku and Vegeta weren't able to transform into it anymore, then that would mean both of them have their Super Saiyan God power always turned on, then there wouldn't be Saiyan beyond God.

And what retcon what are you talking about?