VegettoEX wrote:See, I don't get this kind of response. At all.DBZAOTA482 wrote:Probably the best method when approaching the Super anime. It's obvious Toei (and possibly Toriyama) don't really care about quality or consistency, they just wanna cater to kids who have yet to develop the mentality to look at things critically... just like Nickelodeon.
Toriyama has consistently, throughout the entire run of the series, explicitly said he writes things by the seat of his pants, doesn't intend for you or even want you to examine things too closely, because he's specifically writing for young boys purely for low-level entertainment.
That's not to say he doesn't end up having consistency from time to time, and that's not to say his works shouldn't be examined closely if you really want to, but at this point over 30 years later with this franchise, can't you accept that a spade is a spade? This is, and always has been, a series for children. If you're an adult, you need to understand that.
Is this just a case of people in that middle area of their fandom, between the wide-eyed optimism of their childhood fandom, and the (let's be honest here?) elitist-sage level of their adult fandom? Right in that spot where you reject what you liked as a kid, but still cling to it and want it to be something it can never be? For an author and a product to grow alongside you when it's clear that there's absolutely zero intention or willingness for them to do so?
Join us in this echelon of blissful apathy! It's the happiest place on Earth, despite how contradictory that may sound.
(I guess I also don't understand the need to "announce" one's intention to consume the series differently. Just... do it, I guess? And maybe just naturally shift up the way you publicly interact with other fans? I dunno, I'm just far more interested in the societal stuff surrounding a fandom sometimes than I am the series itself. Watching people for 20 years will do that to you, I guess. The whys behind how people tick fascinates me.)
Mmm, I might be misinterpreting what you're saying so if so, just ignore but...
Personally I don't feel like it matters what Toriyama has said in the past about writing things by the seat of his pants. I don't care that he would straight up pull things from his ass in the past. The point is, that's the past. It's history now. It's a long history in fact, which perfectly outlines things like character personalities, interactions, and etc. Toriyama/Toei shouldn't need to be pulling things out of their ass when they have a long history to look at and model after. I mean 30 years later, these characters should be set in stone. A spade SHOULD be a spade. With Super though, sometimes you don't know what you're getting.
This is a series for children, it shouldn't be overanalyzed, and it should absolutely be taken at face value. I agree. However, I don't think "consistency" is such a strange thing to ask even for a kids show.
Personally, I don't want Dragonball to "grow with me", it's a kid's show and always will be. But I still want it to be consistent. I want it to leave off right where that kids show ended so long ago. I want the characters to be just like the ones we saw when the series first ended. I don't care what kind of adventures Goku and co. go on, no matter how childish and simplistic. I just want those adventures to be done by the characters from my childhood, not ones that are inconsistent and fail to properly match up with the characters we all know and love.
For the most part, Super has done an okay job with making the characters feel like they did in Z, but they get a big failing grade on the main character, and that's not good. It should not be excused under the guise of "Well, Toriyama is an inconsistent man!" or "This is a kid's show, it's for kids!" It's simply a fault that needs correcting, and has less to do with nostalgia and more to do with just wanting a consistent character.
I still enjoy watching Super, but it gets so many things wrong, and I feel like a lot of people try to push out all the excuses they can sometimes to justify these things (not just talking about inconsistent characters) and the biggest thing I always hear is "nostalgia". If we could only throw away our nostalgia, we could see what a true masterpiece Super is! Well, I'm not so sure about that.
TL;DR - Super has consistency problems. Bringing up these problems should not be brushed aside under a plethora of excuses. People shouldn't read into things too deep, but people shouldn't read into things too shallow either. Also these complaints aren't all just directed at Universe Survival Arc Goku, since I have a strong feeling TOEI is pulling a ruse on us and intentionally making it look like Goku is villainous. I can definitely tell the Goku from the U6 arc and Future Trunks arc wasn't intentional though, and was straight up inconsistent and bad writing.
