"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Grimlock]

It would make zero sense for him to show up since logically he should be far weaker than Merged Zamasu and his fusion time would be like 5 seconds, but I hope it happens anyway.

Zero sense is something that has been happening since when Super Saiyan 2 is able to surpass Super Saiyan 3. Also, there's a symbolism behind a Gogeta and Merged Zamasu fight. You know, a mortal fusion that can keep up with a god fusion... That would drive Merged Zamasu even more mad.

[Black Hawk]

Maybe the Trunks who was killed by Cell was able to shutdown the androids in the unseen timeline, but we don't know how many Z-Fighters died in that timeline. It's possible the androids were as reckless as they were in the future, so everyone except for Trunks, Gohan, maybe Goku (unless the virus killed him in that timeline) and maybe Krillin were killed. In that timeline Trunks would have found the blueprints of the androids because they were able to locate Dr Gero's base in that timeline too. It's possible Trunks didn't destroy Cell, or if he did, he didn't destroy him on purpose but just wanted to destroy Gero's base. Maybe he found Cell and didn't quite get what that thing was supposed to be but destroyed it anyway.
So once Trunks deactived the androids in his future too, he wanted to go back to the past once again to create a new timeline in which his father and the others are still alive. This didn't happen because Cell killed him and stole his time machine.

Basically the timelines would be like that:

(Your Explanation Here)

I believe you are exactly right in the entirety of your explanation. What I find very interesting and had not thought of before was the possibility of some of the characters of this timeline being offed by the artificial humans despite Trunks' intervention. I had always just assumed that they'd have all survived due to the only threats having been No. 20, No. 19, No. 18, No. 17, and No. 16 (with no Cell at all), the last three of which having likely been deactivated. If they had suffered casualties, perhaps even including Piccolo, though, would that not have been undone by Gokū retrieving Dende to become the new guardian, thus reactivating the Dragon Balls and bringing back those who'd been lost in the battle?

I have so many questions and curiosities about that unseen timeline, and I wish we'd get some concrete information about it, but I doubt it'll ever happen. The Chōzenshū even dropped that timeline altogether, whereas it'd been present in the Daizenshū.

[emperior]

Maybe the Trunks who was killed by Cell was able to shutdown the androids in the unseen timeline, but we don't know how many Z-Fighters died in that timeline. It's possible the androids were as reckless as they were in the future, so everyone except for Trunks, Gohan, maybe Goku (unless the virus killed him in that timeline) and maybe Krillin were killed. In that timeline Trunks would have found the blueprints of the androids because they were able to locate Dr Gero's base in that timeline too. It's possible Trunks didn't destroy Cell, or if he did, he didn't destroy him on purpose but just wanted to destroy Gero's base. Maybe he found Cell and didn't quite get what that thing was supposed to be but destroyed it anyway.
So once Trunks deactived the androids in his future too, he wanted to go back to the past once again to create a new timeline in which his father and the others are still alive. This didn't happen because Cell killed him and stole his time machine.

Basically the timelines would be like that:

(Your Explanation Here)

I believe you are exactly right in the entirety of your explanation. What I find very interesting and had not thought of before was the possibility of some of the characters of this timeline being offed by the artificial humans despite Trunks' intervention. I had always just assumed that they'd have all survived due to the only threats having been No. 20, No. 19, No. 18, No. 17, and No. 16 (with no Cell at all), the last three of which having likely been deactivated. If they had suffered casualties, perhaps even including Piccolo, though, would that not have been undone by Gokū retrieving Dende to become the new guardian, thus reactivating the Dragon Balls and bringing back those who'd been lost in the battle?

I have so many questions and curiosities about that unseen timeline, and I wish we'd get some concrete information about it, but I doubt it'll ever happen. The Chōzenshū even dropped that timeline altogether, whereas it'd been present in the Daizenshū.

To be honest I also always believed that everyone had survived in the unseen timeline until that post, which made me think and realize that if everyone was truly alive in that timeline, it would have made no sense for Future Trunks to go back in time 4 years before the androids attacked.
Remember that Trunks had two goals: to save his timeline, and to create a timeline in which everyone was still alive. It has to mean he failed if he was willing to create another timeline, even if he was able to destroy the androids.

It would be amazing to see a TV Special/Movie about the unseen timeline, exploring what happened there and what Trunks planned to do by going back 1 year before than what he did before.
The two TV Specials of DBZ were very dark, so it would continue the trend. They have so many possibilities with TV Specials set in the alternate timelines, we could also see what happened in the timeline where Zamasu successfully stole Goku's body becoming Black. It would also give them the opportunity to expand on the Zero Mortals Plan.
About Future Trunks, I still think the reason why they didn't expand on his ending in his arc is because we will see more of him in the future. He didn't really get a proper closure like he did in DBZ. It would also be really cool to see Beerus dealing with Black and Zamasu, as we would finally see Black getting beaten.

[Black Hawk]

To be honest I also always believed that everyone had survived in the unseen timeline until that post, which made me think and realize that if everyone was truly alive in that timeline, it would have made no sense for Future Trunks to go back in time 4 years before the androids attacked.
Remember that Trunks had two goals: to save his timeline, and to create a timeline in which everyone was still alive. It has to mean he failed if he was willing to create another timeline, even if he was able to destroy the androids.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

I don't know why I never thought of that before; that is absolutely brilliant. I love it.

It would be amazing to see a TV Special/Movie about the unseen timeline, exploring what happened there and what Trunks planned to do by going back 1 year before than what he did before.
The two TV Specials of DBZ were very dark, so it would continue the trend. They have so many possibilities with TV Specials set in the alternate timelines, we could also see what happened in the timeline where Zamasu successfully stole Goku's body becoming Black. It would also give them the opportunity to expand on the Zero Mortals Plan.
About Future Trunks, I still think the reason why they didn't expand on his ending in his arc is because we will see more of him in the future. He didn't really get a proper closure like he did in DBZ. It would also be really cool to see Beerus dealing with Black and Zamasu, as we would finally see Black getting beaten.

I would love very much for all of this to happen. I want to know what the story was behind the unseen timeline and the four (rather than three) year trip back in time Trunks was going to make before Cell killed him. I want to know what happened to everyone after Zamasu became Black and killed Gokū before heading to Trunks' timeline when Majin Boo's revival was prevented. I want to know why Black and Future Zamasu didn't recruit the other three Zamasu from the other three parallel worlds that existed at the time. (Maybe that last one had something to do with Beerus still being active in those timelines, as Black specifically targeted Trunks' timeline because Beerus was neutralized.) Toyotarō, you gave us insights like the Pilaf Gang being wished back into infants and Kaiō-sama's planet being wished back; might you give us insights regarding these matters too? Probably not, unfortunately.

[Noah]

Zero sense is something that has been happening since when Super Saiyan 2 is able to surpass Super Saiyan 3. Also, there's a symbolism behind a Gogeta and Merged Zamasu fight. You know, a mortal fusion that can keep up with a god fusion... That would drive Merged Zamasu even more mad.

Exactly! Gogeta vs. Merged Zamasu should happen because of that

[Black Hawk]

Exactly! Gogeta vs. Merged Zamasu should happen because of that

And so that we can watch a certain someone eat a shoe.

[emperior]

Zero sense is something that has been happening since when Super Saiyan 2 is able to surpass Super Saiyan 3. Also, there's a symbolism behind a Gogeta and Merged Zamasu fight. You know, a mortal fusion that can keep up with a god fusion... That would drive Merged Zamasu even more mad.

Exactly! Gogeta vs. Merged Zamasu should happen because of that

I don't think Gogeta will happen because: Toriyama didn't design Gogeta, and the anime retconning Vegetto into a 1 hour thing makes me think it was from Toriyama. But, thinking about it, I think it could be a Toei's thing because they also introduced SSB + Kaioken, which isn't in the manga and so it isn't in Toriyama's outline, unless Kaioken is a Toriyama's idea that he planned to introduce in the upcoming tournament (which the opening would foreshadow) and Toei decided to give it to us earlier, so they chose Goku's fight with Hit to make some sense out of Toriyama's outline that probably said "Goku is 10 times stronger than Vegeta against Hit" and they mentioned Kaioken not being mastered at that point. It would also explain what the hell Goku was doing during the 3 years of training in the RoSaT with Vegeta, who I hope will also have something up his sleeves too in the universal tournament. (Well, in the anime we know Goku was also mastering his Kaioken in the RoSaT, but the 3 years of training in the RoSaT make no sense in the manga at the moment)

Anyways, Gogeta happening would be extremely cool for the reasons you posted, and would also make more sense power levels wise, especially in the manga where Future Zamasu is nowhere near SSB level.

[nato25]

Just read chapter 20 in English, damn there is some good art there, I especially love when Goku is just standing there dodging all the junk zamas is throwing at him.

Toyotaro seems to take everyones abilities way more literally. Like you never saw the supreme kai help in the fight against buu by using psychic powers or teleporting daburas sword away from him and stuff like that. Same with the zenkai boost. I like how trunks said immense power boost to try and cover for all the crazy jumps in the namek saga.

I still cant wrap my head around how time travel works with black though, especially beerus destroying zamas creating an alternate timeline. Why didnt they just have zamas not get destroyed because he ran away first to enact his plan, that would have made way more sense. Black and normal timelinr zamas should never exist at the same time as they are the same person.

[Totamo]

the next chapter comes out next Saturday right

[micah007]

the next chapter comes out next Saturday right

At the earliest it should leak later next week, Friday or Saturday is my bet.

[Khin]

The next chapter comes out next Saturday right?

V-Jump (and naturally, the manga) is always released on the 21st of each month, barring a Sunday or holiday, in which case it gets moved up slightly.

There’s no guarantee that there will be leaks next Saturday. They generally pop-up between the 16th and the 20th of the month.

[Miracles]

When I say three Zamasu, I should really specify that two of those three are technically the same Zamasu. The Zamasu who became Black is, of course, the exact same Zamasu who was destroyed by Beerus, which is what creates the sixth time ring. What I'm curious about is why Black and Future Zamasu didn't recruit any of the other three Zamasu who live in the timelines of the other three time rings; those three Zamasu never appear nor are they ever mentioned at all in the story.

With regard to the second part of your reply, I was under the impression that, for Trunks who was killed by Cell, there was no Perfect Cell in the past because the artificial humans were shut down via a device made based on Gero's blueprints. When Trunks returned to his own time, he also shut down the artificial humans and thus eliminating them. Three years later, he was going to use the time machine again, except, this time, he was going to go back in time one year prior to his original journey, perhaps to create a timeline in which the artificial humans are never a threat to start with because he can just shut them down before they can do anything. Of course, Cell kills him (The training in the Room of Spirit and Time didn't happen because of the shut-down device.) before he can and takes the time machine for himself without changing any of the coordinates. In this way, Cell, who then buried himself in the ground to grow, is present both in the timeline of the Trunks we know and love and the timeline he went into which has continued all the way to the battle against Black now.

In episode 194 it clearly states Trunks was going back into the alternate past where Perfect Cell was already defeated. He explained this to Bulma when he got back just before he wasted the droids in his future world. Then three years later in his future world [Episode139], Cell noticed the droids were defeated by Trunks and then killed Trunks, took the time machine four years back, arriving in the past world a year before Trunks comes and kills Freeza. Also, Zamasu didn't recruit any other Zamasu's from the alternate worlds because there were no Zamasu in those worlds. He is from universe 10, only one alternate world of that universe, those other parallel worlds are not from universe 10.

[Sandubadear]

Also, Zamasu didn't recruit any other Zamasu's from the alternate worlds because there were no Zamasu in those worlds. He is from universe 10, only one alternate world of that universe, those other parallel worlds are not from universe 10.

By that logic, Future Zamasu or Future Zen'o shouldn't exist since Trunks only changed the past for Universe 7. Alternate timeline split all universes. They only didn't recruit other Zamasu because they haven't started the plan in other timelines.

[MathSSJ]

Zero sense is something that has been happening since when Super Saiyan 2 is able to surpass Super Saiyan 3. Also, there's a symbolism behind a Gogeta and Merged Zamasu fight. You know, a mortal fusion that can keep up with a god fusion... That would drive Merged Zamasu even more mad.

Exactly! Gogeta vs. Merged Zamasu should happen because of that

The symbolism already falls apart because Goku and Vegeta have the power of gods.

[Miracles]

By that logic, Future Zamasu or Future Zen'o shouldn't exist since Trunks only changed the past for Universe 7. Alternate timeline split all universes. They only didn't recruit other Zamasu because they haven't started the plan in other timelines.

Future Zamasu existing is due to Beerus wasting him. Hence the time ring created from that.
Future Zeno is accurate because he is already from that future world of Trunks. So he took that future Zeno to play with the Zeno in the parallel past universe 7 timeline.

[Sandubadear]

By that logic, Future Zamasu or Future Zen'o shouldn't exist since Trunks only changed the past for Universe 7. Alternate timeline split all universes. They only didn't recruit other Zamasu because they haven't started the plan in other timelines.

Future Zamasu existing is due to Beerus wasting him. Hence the time ring created from that.
Future Zeno is accurate because he is already from that future world of Trunks. So he took that future Zeno to play with the Zeno in the parallel past universe 7 timeline.

No, the ones who split due to Beerus killing him are present Zamasu/Goku Black.

Zen'o doesn't live in Universe 7 so I don't really understand what you meant.

[Noah]

Also, there's a symbolism behind a Gogeta and Merged Zamasu fight. You know, a mortal fusion that can keep up with a god fusion...[/b] That would drive Merged Zamasu even more mad.

Exactly! Gogeta vs. Merged Zamasu should happen because of that

The symbolism already falls apart because Goku and Vegeta have the power of gods.

Yep, but they're still mortal beings using a mortal technique to fuse.

[MathSSJ]

Exactly! Gogeta vs. Merged Zamasu should happen because of that

The symbolism already falls apart because Goku and Vegeta have the power of gods.

Yep, but they're still mortal beings using a mortal technique to fuse.

It just doesn't hold any weight if you have to pretend that Goku and Vegeta aren't gods when they are directly stated to be them.

Vegetto just works better. Two humans who became gods using tools of the gods to combat a god gone mad. Assuming Toyotaro doesn't deviate too much from what happened, Gogeta being there over Vegetto would be purely fanservice and cause more harm then good, since the question of "Why won't they just fuse?" to deal with everything will still be unanswered in the manga.

[mfwlegend3]

This wait for next chapter is unbearable to me.

[Grimlock]

Purely fan service is a thing that it's happening since when the idea of bringing back Freeza was thought. Vegetto is no different.