Toei shouldn't have problem to retcon GT

[Sodhi]

I don't think Toei will even touch GT. They would likely keep it as a different product. Just like every DB series so far.

[TheMikado]

This is the exact reason I keep asking you to cite your sources for information because it Bandai's 2016 Annual report says the EXACT OPPOSITE

I'm sorry but start READING WITH UNDERSTANDING finally. Your quote summarizes the entire Toys & Hobby division at Bandai, do you understand what entire division means? The Entire division declined but revenue from DRAGON BALL TOYS & HOBBY increased massively, from 5.8 billion yen to 11.6 billion yen. It's right there in the chart I posted for crying out loud.

You're making claims of Super generating WAY more profit than Kai. (No evidence to this, despite the fact they have similar ratings at similar times)

This is becoming simply delusional. I post financial data showing massive growth in every section of revenue from Dragon Ball licensing & products for both Bandai and Toei and you say that's not evidence Super is benefiting the franchise more than Kai rerurns lol.

Good God man, its like you arent reading my posts at all.
1) I said specifically that Dragonball products are now a larger share of their Toy revenue. There's no argument there. I was merely refuting what seemed to be the claim the the division numbers were increasing which is not the case.
2) I never made the direct comparison to Kai. You did! My statement was simple. PROFITABILITY. PROFITABILITY. PROFITABILITY. We DO NOT KNOW the production costs of Super, how much it generates from licensing, nor how much it will continue to generate. NOR do we know these numbers for any other product. Like seriously I've said this a million times already WE DO NOT KNOW. If you know please show me.

Again I will state the same thing I have at least 5 times so far. We DO NOT KNOW how profitable Super, THE ANIME, is period. It could be marginally profitable, it could be massively. We have some generalized numbers but nothing focused specifically on the SUPER anime product other than ratings, WHICH ARE COMPARABLE to an older show in running around the same time slot in the US market. Super could generate 100 million in revenue annually and cost 99 million to make while Kai could generate 10 million in revenue and be more profitable. I AM NOT SAYING THAT'S THE CASE. I am saying NEITHER YOU NOR I KNOW THIS INFORMATION. Yet you continually claim you do. This is NOT delusion, this is a simple show me the information.
No one is debating Super is making money, the debate is about how much comes from the Super anime running and its costs. I'm not making statements about how much more Super or GT or Kai is making because I have no idea about the financials on the back end.

I don't understand why this is so hard. I am simply saying there are more than enough factors to say WE DON'T KNOW for sure exactly how well its performing. Is it doing well in Japan? Sure. Will it do well internationally? Remains to be seen.
Will it do generate more profit internationally than having older series running in syndication? It definitely should. By how much? We have no idea yet. Look this is pointless. I keep saying we don't know and you want to insist we do, I think at this point I'll just let the company do what it thinks is best and we will see what happens. My bet is that if it were a wild success like Z that appealed to international markets, then every option would be open to them. If its a marginal success that primarily appeals to Japanese audiences, they will be reluctant to cut or tamper with any IP that does well in their international markets. That's really all I have to say and what I've been saying, I'm done here, they have the numbers and we will be able to infer based on what they do.

[Basaku]

Good God man, its like you arent reading my posts at all.

1) I said specifically that Dragonball products are now a larger share of their Toy revenue. There's no argument there. I was merely refuting what seemed to be the claim the the division numbers were increasing which is not the case.

Are you reading mine? Does it take a spark of genius to assume that I was talking about Dragon Ball in context of Toys & Hobby section after I posted a chart that distinguishes between the 2 myself and after we've been discussing Dragon Ball revenue for the past few pages? For Dragon Ball (which is what we've been constantly focusing on in this thread) YES THEY ARE. They increased. 11.5 billion yen is larger than 5.6 billion yen period.

Will it do generate more profit internationally than having older series running in syndication? It definitely should. By how much? We have no idea yet.

Yes we do. You have numbers right in front of our eyes. The era of Super is catapulting revenue for Toei from Dragon Ball to 5 billion yen, up from ~1.5 billion the past 5 years prior. For Bandai, revenue is up to 30+ billion versus ~11 billion on average in the 5 years prior. If Super is not responsible, please tell me what is.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

You're making claims of Super generating WAY more profit than Kai. (No evidence to this, despite the fact they have similar ratings at similar times).

The ratings have very little to do with the overall profit in Japan. That's all in merchandise sales. This is a well known fact about the Japanese industry, I wouldn't even know what to source you for it. That's just how that works in Japan. While Kai had good ratings, it didn't sell merchandise very well. It follows that it didn't make the same profit as Super, which does sell merchandise well.

[TheMikado]

You're making claims of Super generating WAY more profit than Kai. (No evidence to this, despite the fact they have similar ratings at similar times).

The ratings have very little to do with the overall profit in Japan. That's all in merchandise sales. This is a well known fact about the Japanese industry, I wouldn't even know what to source you for it. That's just how that works in Japan. While Kai had good ratings, it didn't sell merchandise very well. It follows that it didn't make the same profit as Super, which does sell merchandise well.

Oh I certainly agree, the main reason I am stating ratings is because I want to separate contributions the Movies made vs the anime. Things like SSB Goku sales won't tell as much because its impossible to determine if the sale was inspired by the show or the anime, especially depending on the timing of the merchandise release. Its not really an issue of acknowledging that, its merely wanting to isolate the product as much as possible. An example would be the large leap in Overseas Film licensing of Dragonball products that occurs in the same time period in Toei. I wouldn't attribute that directly to the Super anime, but I wouldn't rule out its influence either. For the purposes of what I was stating and isolating the product as much as possible. I just want to know what Super picks up in licensing of its anime vs. its production costs because I was only really comparing licensing revenue of existing IPs to start with.

[Hellspawn28]

GT ended in 1997, the show has not been relevant in ages and the kids watching DB right now probably never seen GT. Toei is probably going to ignore GT since most people didn't like it and it's not relevant to today's generation. Sure it has SSj4 forms in Heroes, but that's about it. I feel like GT is like the 3D era Mortal Kombat of Dragon Ball.

[TheMikado]

GT ended in 1997, the show has not been relevant in ages and the kids watching DB right now probably never seen GT. Toei is probably going to ignore GT since most people didn't like it and it's not relevant to today's generation. Sure it has SSj4 forms in Heroes, but that's about it. I feel like GT is like the 3D era Mortal Kombat of Dragon Ball.

GT has been running on Nicktoons along side Kai from 2012-2015. Kids today have seen it and apparently it did well enough to keep on in syndication for a while.

[Hellspawn28]

I'm talking about the Japanese kids watching the series every Sunday morning. The US market is a after math to Toei, the Japanese audience always comes first.

[TheMikado]

I'm talking about the Japanese kids watching the series every Sunday morning. The US market is a after math to Toei, the Japanese audience always comes first.

This isn't true at all. Have you looked at Toeis financial statements? Japan only accounts for about 25-33% of their total revenue from Dragonball. They could completely ignore Japan and still make money on Dragonball.

[lordsigma]

Toei may overwrite the end of DBZ and GT in Super's story, they may not. Who the heck knows? Whether they do or not it doesn't eliminate the traditional end of Z or GT from the franchise. Like any franchise it contains different products that stand on their own. Some of which fit together story line wise and some which don't. GT fits as the conclusion of the original TV run of Dragon Ball that continued with DBZ and ended with GT. Kai, BoG, RoF, and Super are newer products made for today's audience which fit with some of the past incarnations of Dragonball and don't with others. And then of course you have the movies. Many of the products contradict the manga or the earlier anime and each other but that doesn't mean they aren't part of the official franchise material. Obviously some pieces throughout the franchise history are of a higher quality than others. I think having an "official canon timeline" for a franchise like this is a lot more important to us super-fans than it is to even Toriyama and Toei. If I had to pick a canon timeline, I would say its the original manga. If people want to say its the manga and Super than that's fine or the manga and the BoG and RoF movies or the manga and the Super manga that's fine too. But I actually find Super more fun to watch when you aren't trying to worry about having an official canon continuity in the end that contains all the parts of the universe you like and dispenses with the parts you don't. I think it's more fun to just enjoy it for what it is. Whether they rewrite the ending of Z and overwrite GT's story that doesn't mean they still aren't going to rerun GT or sell GT related products because money wise Super is just another product within the franchise. Nor does it mean that EoZ isn't still the ending of the manga. It's just a different take on the story. They will end Super in the way they deem best for Super as a series without worrying about how it fits storyline wise with past works whether it be the manga or original anime. Maybe eventually an "official canon" timeline will be declared like was done with the Star Wars franchise but given this is a franchise that is foremost aimed at young kids I kind of doubt they will. But even if they do that doesn't eliminate all the past entries in the series that don't fit with it they are still part of the franchise.

[Xeztin]

These days it seems that when a series gets a sequel series or spin off they retcon one another or throw it into the future or past only recognizing a character from the past series for what they accomplished, or some times ignoring the events before completely. The only continuity I'd count on now a day's is in the series itself such as Super. If there was another sequel or spin-off to Super, even if it had the same characters, I wouldn't try to link it 100 percent to the past series. Just like how Super retcons the manga and even "Z" or "Kai" here and there. (5 years without seeing Goku, Potara just to name a few.)

[lordsigma]

And on the Star Wars example I think Disney/Lucasfilm did themselves a disservice with the whole canon vs. Legends thing by requiring all new licensed Star Wars content to fit with their new cinematic timeline. While I don't think they should have been bound to follow the EU with their new films, I think they should allow new licensed material within the old EU even if they stick a canon or Legends stamp on it. New Legends content should be allowed if there is a demand for it. I think it would be absurd for them to think that new post Return of the Jedi "Legends" content would harm revenues of their new films. I actually think it would be better for Dragon Ball to not declare an "official timeline" and limit themselves on future possibilities.

[Chuquita]

I don't follow Star Wars, but I still feel sad for those who are no longer getting new expanded universe installments because of Disney shutting them down.

[lordsigma]

And sometimes quality doesn't always link up with continuity. I would say that Super is a better series than GT (though I do like some things in GT.) But at the same time I have to be honest and say that in my opinion it actually contradicts the manga and DB/DBZ anime more than GT did and I think at least in terms of TV series the original TV Run of DB followed by DBZ followed by DBGT fits together in a more plausible continuity. Even though Super is of a higher quality and is more successful than GT I think DB followed by DBZ followed by Super is a bit more messy to try to fit together whether Toriyama is involved and whether it is considered "canon" or not. That's why I think it's best not to worry about making everything fit perfectly.

Now obviously we don't know how Super ends yet so my opinion could change on which continuity is more plausible depending on how they end it.

[HybridSaiyan]

Anything Dragon Ball related will sell regardless. If we saw some nice GT figures from Banpresto, I'm 95% sure they'll be bought by fans.