"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[The gr]

I'm pretty sure Trunks killing Freeza has been criticized to death by now for coming out of nowhere and ruining Freeza, so I don't see your point.

I bet if it were these days it would be more or less like this:

"What the f***? Has Toriyama gone mad?"
"Another Super Saiyan out of nowhere?"
"Not even Goku in this form had killed Freeza so easily"

When 20 years ago everyone was like:

"Wow! That's awesome!"
"He fights with a sword, so cool!"
"This guy is so cool"

OMG,this made my day, just imagine if DBZ came out today like super

[kinisking]

... Or Goku beating Freeza instead of Vegeta. I don't see the problem with Vegeta not having the biggest connection. His connection is strong enough for him to care and he's capable of doing it too.

Again, Vegeta was a villain at that point in the story. He did a lot of scummy, evil shit throughout the arc and Toriyama is quick to remind you. It'd be satisfying to nobody if Vegeta got the kill.

This is a completely different situation. The three characters are heroes and are on equal footing. They aren't being limited by their role in the story. The logical thing to do would be to put Black as the opponent of the characters who have the biggest connection to him. Gohan also has a reason to care. Present Trunks has a reason to care. Yet those characters aren't defeating Black, and for good reason. It's not cathartic in the slightest to have Vegeta defeat Black, it's just poor.

Vegeta has a much better reason to care than Gohan and Present trunks. He's also strong enough to best Black unlike them. Vegeta besting black is a good way to show his character development ( respecting Goku and caring for Trunks ) while also giving him a way to fight a Goku look alike. It's not poor at all for him to get a few good fights in. You act like you don't know that Trunks is gong to be the one to end up dealing a massive blow to Merged Zamasu.

Villians don't have to be beaten by the one with the strongest connection. Freeza and Vegeta in rof isn't the only one that comes to mind. They'res piccolo and Roshi, Boo and supreme Kai .

Did you want Vegeta to just sit on the side lines or something?

[Makaioshin]

Toyotaro's Merged Zamasu looks more Gokuish than his anime counterpart. I prefer his more lithe appearance but I guess even in the anime he becomes pretty bulky toward the end of the fight. I have a feeling he won't summon a giant bird of justice in the next chapter.

[The gr]

... Or Goku beating Freeza instead of Vegeta. I don't see the problem with Vegeta not having the biggest connection. His connection is strong enough for him to care and he's capable of doing it too.

Again, Vegeta was a villain at that point in the story. He did a lot of scummy, evil shit throughout the arc and Toriyama is quick to remind you. It'd be satisfying to nobody if Vegeta got the kill.

This is a completely different situation. The three characters are heroes and are on equal footing. They aren't being limited by their role in the story. The logical thing to do would be to put Black as the opponent of the characters who have the biggest connection to him. Gohan also has a reason to care. Present Trunks has a reason to care. Yet those characters aren't defeating Black, and for good reason. It's not cathartic in the slightest to have Vegeta defeat Black, it's just poor.

Vegeta has a much better reason to care than Gohan and Present trunks. He's also strong enough to best Black unlike them. Vegeta besting black is a good way to show his character development ( respecting Goku and caring for Trunks ) while also giving him a way to fight a Goku look alike. It's not poor at all for him to get a few good fights in. You act like you don't know that Trunks is gong to be the one to end up dealing a massive blow to Merged Zamasu.

Villians don't have to be beaten by the one with the strongest connection. Freeza and Vegeta in rof isn't the only one that comes to mind. They'res piccolo and Roshi, Boo and supreme Kai .

Did you want Vegeta to just sit on the side lines or something?

and you forgot to include Gohan and cell,they didn't have a connection big as trunks. and cell, but yet he is the one to defeat him

[OLKv3]

I'm pretty sure Trunks killing Freeza has been criticized to death by now for coming out of nowhere and ruining Freeza, so I don't see your point.

I bet if it were these days it would be more or less like this:

"What the f***? Has Toriyama gone mad?"
"Another Super Saiyan out of nowhere?"
"Not even Goku in this form had killed Freeza so easily"

When 20 years ago everyone was like:

"Wow! That's awesome!"
"He fights with a sword, so cool!"
"This guy is so cool"

Trunks was a legend in America, since we only saw him briefly in the intro and it took years for us to finally reach that point. I remember Toonami's hype up video for Trunks

[sintzu]

You forgot to include Gohan and cell,they didn't have a connection big as trunks.

They didn't have a connection at all. I don't even think Cell knew his name.

[jplaya2023]

@the gr are there saiyans hiding in the ROSAT now? this is an asspull. I'm not mad about it but toto is destroying the canon AT laid out

[sintzu]

@the gr are there saiyans hiding in the ROSAT now? this is an asspull. I'm not mad about it but toto is destroying the canon AT laid out

He has Blue which is stronger so what's the problem with it ? Toriyama approves his chapters so if he was "destroying" his rules then he wouldn't have approved it.

[mfwlegend3]

I prefer the manga over all, but I've really been disappointed with some of the choices made with this arc, regardless if it was what Toriyama originally intended for it to be like. From Goku's uselessness to Black's personality.

[Pkjoan]

You forgot to include Gohan and cell,they didn't have a connection big as trunks.

They didn't have a connection at all. I don't even think Cell knew his name.

He does

[perucho1990]

I'd say Toei added the missing trip and expanded on how Zamasu killed Goku's family and stole his body, while Toyo obviously added SSG Vegeta and whatever else they add.
Oh and that stupid Scythe that Black had, definitely a Toei addition

That was a bit overkill, but I liked how Black evolved his Ki sword into a machete and then a needler from Halo.

With the Scythe felt like the writers were inspired from checking Bleach. If they wanted to make Black stronger they shouldve gave him another Ki sword, turning him into a Nitouryu user.

The addition of learning that Zamasu killed Goku and his family was one of the best things Toei has done, it led to one of the best moments in DBS (Goku bitchslapping Mirai Zamasu).

[The gr]

@the gr are there saiyans hiding in the ROSAT now? this is an asspull. I'm not mad about it but toto is destroying the canon AT laid out

I meant he did the ritual once,but lost it,but re obtains by intense training,this could be the same case as Goku re obtaining ssjg

[Miracles]

Observe his beauty



Also Vegeta has SSG.

Was waiting for them to get around to Vegeta having SSJ god.
SSJB is just a SSJ form of SSJ god. Stated by Goku vs golden Freeza.

[Bulma's Foot Masseur]

The ritual isn't necessary. Why can't "and unlike me, Vegeta achieved [god status] all on his own" from the anime apply in the manga?

EDIT: Isn't it a little weird that Vegeta's SSG hair looks *exactly* like it does while Super Saiyan? I wouldn't have even been able to tell that was SSG had SSG Goku not been beside him.

[jplaya2023]

SSJ Red = only tapping into god ki

SSJ Blue = combining god ki with ssj ki

[Araki]

@the gr are there saiyans hiding in the ROSAT now? this is an asspull. I'm not mad about it but toto is destroying the canon AT laid out

He has Blue which is stronger so what's the problem with it ? Toriyama approves his chapters so if he was "destroying" his rules then he wouldn't have approved it.

Everything points out to Toriyama only caring about "fixing" gag scenes. I don't think he gives a damn if Toyotaro does anything that goes against supposed rules or things he previously stated in interviews, as we've been often reminded. I mean, Goku accessing SSG like that whenever he wants is clearly Toyotaro pulling it out of his ass.

[MathSSJ]

The ritual isn't necessary. Why can't "and unlike me, Vegeta achieved [god status] all on his own" from the anime apply in the manga?

EDIT: Isn't it a little weird that Vegeta's SSG hair looks *exactly* like it does while Super Saiyan? I wouldn't have even been able to tell that was SSG had SSG Goku not been beside him.

Vegeta obtiained God Ki through training, and then he and Goku came up with Blue. Kinda doesn't work for God when the entire setup for it was the ritual.

[sintzu]

Goku accessing SSG like that whenever he wants is clearly Toyotaro pulling it out of his ass.

Goku did that in BOG at the end.

[TheMathemagician]

Toei definitely did Goku favors making him more prominent in the arc

Yeah poor Goku, he never gets enough screen time.

Different case as Vegeta was still an evil guy at that point in the story. Goku was the hero, so of course he'd get the fight. Vegeta being the one to kill Freeza wouldn't be satisfying to anyone after all the scummy shit he did throughout the arc.

It worked out fine in the end cause it gave his rematch in RF more weight to it.

Lol you're right about that, he definitely gets more than enough but nah, Toei definitely did well with giving Goku a bigger role. I wasn't complaining. Just like I'm not really complaining about him taking a backseat here. The only thing I'd really dislike from Goku here is if he never actually gets to fight Black.

[pacz360]

Goku accessing SSG like that whenever he wants is clearly Toyotaro pulling it out of his ass.

Goku did that in BOG at the end.

Goku absorbed the form power in the movie and anime.