"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[OLKv3]

He could be, but this sounds like something Toyotaro would do.

He's the same guy who posted a cover of last month's V-Jump and tried to claim it was this month's

Did you read the complaints and watch videos about Goku's character in that arc.


At least no one is complaining about that here.

The complaints were about his rampant stupidity, but most people praised his fights with Black, especially the ones vs Rose.

That has nothing to do with what I just said. Goku may have had fights but that did not stop people from bitching nor did they make up for it in a lot of eyes.


Goku may be sidelined to give Vegeta some screentime but isn't that what Vegeta fans want. Goku may be sidelined but at least he isn't forgetting things over and over again. trunks may be sidelined but at least he is not a gary stu.


This logic right here is why many praise the characterization in the manga over the anime. It does nothing with them but nothing to them

Then why did you quote me? You jumped into a conversation that was about Goku vs Black, and started getting defensive about his personality in the manga for some reason.

[MathSSJ]

I'm curious as to your reasoning for this belief, rather than the other way around with Super Saiyajin Blue Kaiōken. I don't mean that in a condescending way, I promise; I'm genuinely curious as to why you feel that way about SSJG but not Kaiōken.

I don't feel Kaioken was necessary either, even though I'm an unashamed fanboy of the technique, and they fucked up by having Goku go x10 but between it and making SSJ God a generic beatstick transformation when it was anything but in the movie, Kaioken it is. Bonus points for showing the effects it had on Goku's body when pushed too far.

The Super retelling of BoG was god awful, but at least Toei had the decency to not bring back SSJ God. It had a reason to exist and, as much as I really love the design, it served it's purpose and the story moved away from it with Blue's introduction.

The complaints were about his rampant stupidity, but most people praised his fights with Black, especially the ones vs Rose.

Reverting back to Super Saiyan, when he is completely aware of how SSJB works, against Zamasu only to get immediately taken out by hax in the middle of a fight where SSJ Rosé Black is right next to him is pretty moronic as well.

When did that happen?


Also Goku holding back power is something he has always done even in his fight against black in the naime

Chapter 20. Goku holding back power is perfectly in-character. Goku doing that while Black is right around the corner, who is considerably stronger then him or Vegeta, is not.

Had Toyotaro not introduced Blue's convoluted weakness in the U6 arc, I wouldn't have an issue with it, but he did. Goku comes of as an idiot with regards to fighting, which is, ya know, the one area where he is the best.

[mfwlegend3]

So, what happened to God's time limit?

[Black Hawk]

So, what happened to God's time limit?

The DBS manga kind of gave me the impression that, at least in this continuity, the time limit thing is...well, not a thing, and that, rather, Gokū simply hit his limit and dropped out of form due to exhaustion or using up all his ki at the end of his battle with Beerus.

[OLKv3]

I don't feel Kaioken was necessary either, even though I'm an unashamed fanboy of the technique, and they fucked up by having Goku go x10 but between it and making SSJ God a generic beatstick transformation when it was anything but in the movie, Kaioken it is. Bonus points for showing the effects it had on Goku's body when pushed too far.

The Super retelling of BoG was god awful, but at least Toei had the decency to not bring back SSJ God. It had a reason to exist and, as much as I really love the design, it served it's purpose and the story moved away from it with Blue's introduction.


Reverting back to Super Saiyan, when he is completely aware of how SSJB works, against Zamasu only to get immediately taken out by hax in the middle of a fight where SSJ Rosé Black is right next to him is pretty moronic as well.

When did that happen?


Also Goku holding back power is something he has always done even in his fight against black in the naime

Chapter 20. Goku holding back power is perfectly in-character. Goku doing that while Black is right around the corner, who is considerably stronger then him or Vegeta, is not.

Had Toyotaro not introduced Blue's convoluted weakness in the U6 arc, I wouldn't have an issue with it, but he did. Goku comes of as an idiot with regards to fighting, which is, ya know, the one area where he is the best.

To be fair, he did the exact same thing in Toei's RoF retelling. Dropped down to base and got owned.

[Totamo]

I don't feel Kaioken was necessary either, even though I'm an unashamed fanboy of the technique, and they fucked up by having Goku go x10 but between it and making SSJ God a generic beatstick transformation when it was anything but in the movie, Kaioken it is. Bonus points for showing the effects it had on Goku's body when pushed too far.

The Super retelling of BoG was god awful, but at least Toei had the decency to not bring back SSJ God. It had a reason to exist and, as much as I really love the design, it served it's purpose and the story moved away from it with Blue's introduction.


Reverting back to Super Saiyan, when he is completely aware of how SSJB works, against Zamasu only to get immediately taken out by hax in the middle of a fight where SSJ Rosé Black is right next to him is pretty moronic as well.

When did that happen?


Also Goku holding back power is something he has always done even in his fight against black in the naime

Chapter 20. Goku holding back power is perfectly in-character. Goku doing that while Black is right around the corner, who is considerably stronger then him or Vegeta, is not.

Had Toyotaro not introduced Blue's convoluted weakness in the U6 arc, I wouldn't have an issue with it, but he did. Goku comes of as an idiot with regards to fighting, which is, ya know, the one area where he is the best.

black is fighting vegeta, he is fighting zamasu who is beating down. I'm not seeing the issue here.

In fact you are the first person, I have seen bring this up.

[Simere]

To be fair, he did the exact same thing in Toei's RoF retelling. Dropped down to base and got owned.

It's not the exact same thing, because there was nothing stopping him from powering up again to fight more if he needed to.

black is fighting vegeta, he is fighting zamasu who is beating down. I'm not seeing the issue here.

In fact you are the first person, I have seen bring this up.

He's not the first, it was debated for pages upon pages when the chapter first came out.

[OLKv3]

To be fair, he did the exact same thing in Toei's RoF retelling. Dropped down to base and got owned.

It's not the exact same thing, because there was nothing stopping him from powering up again to fight more if he needed to.

There was nothing stopping him from powering up again when he did it to Zamasu either. It's the same situation. He "won" the fight, got arrogant and lowered his power, then got hit with a surprise attack and got owned.

[Simere]

To be fair, he did the exact same thing in Toei's RoF retelling. Dropped down to base and got owned.

It's not the exact same thing, because there was nothing stopping him from powering up again to fight more if he needed to.

There was nothing stopping him from powering up again when he did it to Zamasu either. It's the same situation. He "won" the fight, got arrogant and lowered his power, then got hit with a surprise attack and got owned.

There was nothing stopping him from powering up again to fight more at full power if he needed to.

[MathSSJ]

To be fair, he did the exact same thing in Toei's RoF retelling. Dropped down to base and got owned.

It's not the exact same thing, because there was nothing stopping him from powering up again to fight more if he needed to.

There was nothing stopping him from powering up again when he did it to Zamasu either. It's the same situation. He "won" the fight, got arrogant and lowered his power, then got hit with a surprise attack and got owned.

It's absolutely not the same. He had beaten Freeza back then and in the movie Goku was still Blue.

Here, Black was back at full power fighting against Vegeta, whom he had just defeated single handedly a few moments before. How are Goku's actions, taking into account the mechanics of Toyotaro's Blue, are in any way, shape or form justifiable outside of "because plot"? For someone who rubbed on the stupid ass forgetting the senzu moment from the anime, his own version of Goku is fucking up just as bad.

Also, don't use RoF as a measuring stick for anything. Both are stupid as hell, Toyotaro's is just far more so because of the context around it.

[FortuneSSJ]

I'm really curious to read Toyotaro's explanation of why Goku and Vegeta are using SSG in the first place, when Vegeta got beat in his SSB form and Goku is dealing with an Immortal being, who beat him last time too.

[MathSSJ]

"Goku mistakenly takes Roshi's hostess bar discount card instead of the Mafuba seal."

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/842612821179289600

So Toyo's Goku somehow manages to come off even worse then the anime version...

[mfwlegend3]

... OK. I've been praising Toyo!Goku up until this point. Great.

[TheMathemagician]

"Goku mistakenly takes Roshi's hostess bar discount card instead of the Mafuba seal."

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/842612821179289600

So Toyo's Goku somehow manages to come off even worse then the anime version...

Lol the anime had Roshi partly at fault for this by telling Goku he'd take care of getting the seal for Goku. They had a formal goodbye and both of them forgot about the seal. I really hope this isn't as bad as it sounds though.

[mfwlegend3]

Black recognizes SS God by its red hair, and calls it be name. Goku explains that Vegeta only turns SS Blue for the instant he attacks.

So.. do the Blue side effects not matter, or..?

Goku likewise goes SSG against Zamasu. "This should be more than enough to handle you!"

Erm, why? I'm pretty sure SS/2 would have sufficed.

[Totamo]

To be fair, he did the exact same thing in Toei's RoF retelling. Dropped down to base and got owned.

It's not the exact same thing, because there was nothing stopping him from powering up again to fight more if he needed to.

black is fighting vegeta, he is fighting zamasu who is beating down. I'm not seeing the issue here.

In fact you are the first person, I .

He's not the first, it was debated for pages upon pages when the chapter first came out.

I never saw that argument anywhere, the only thing i remember seeing was people being glad Goku didn't forget the senzu beans and Vegeta getting shine.


I don't even see the problem, Goku was fighting zamasu, vegeta was fighting black. Goku was stronger than zamasu.

Yeah, i just went back there, this was never brought up. not even by a single youtuber who reviewed this chapter

[Zephyr]

Well damn, I was really hoping that Black would bust Zamasu out of the rice cooker by switching the Potara to his other ear.

[SansrivaaL]

Vegeta went SSJG... what the actual fuck? he got played around as a SSJB, why go SSJG which is weaker than blue? and why the hell does he only turn SS Blue the instant he attacks? why? whats going on? I need the full chapter ASAP.
I'm not really bothered by Goku's mistakes involving the seal, in the anime he simply forgot it, they were racing against time, liekwise here he mistakenly took the wrong one since they're also racing against time, its a genuine mistake that anyone does, Goku isnt perfect, if he's an idiot by those standards, then we're all idiots.

Goku likewise goes SSG against Zamasu. "This should be more than enough to handle you!"

Erm, why? I'm pretty sure SS/2 would have sufficed.

Maybe he needs God ki to resist Zamasu's God moves or something, and since SSJG is his weakest God form, it should be enough kind of thing.

[zamasu121]

"Goku mistakenly takes Roshi's hostess bar discount card instead of the Mafuba seal."

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/842612821179289600

So Toyo's Goku somehow manages to come off even worse then the anime version...

But...but i thought manga Goku is smarter according to everyone here

[Boo Machine]

Goku taking the Discount card instead of the seal is much funnier than him just straight up forgetting it. It got a chuckle out of me.