Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Hugo Boss]

There no recton Unless proven otherwise gohan and Co was able to sense goku back despite him absorbing the god form back in the bog arc
Unless it been stated or implied in the anime there no rectons whatsoever.

I don't know what that has to do with anything I said. He was without a doubt as strong as Super Saiyan God as a Super Saiyan fighting Beerus yes.

In the manga Super Saiyan isn't as strong as Super God. The manga seems as though it would be much closer to Toriyama's intentions based on things he's said in the past.

So in the anime Super Saiyan Goku isn't as strong as Super Saiyan God anymore to match that, as a few things seem to imply. If he wasn't on the level of Gods as a Super Saiyan in the last episode but was said to be beyond the level of Gods when he fought Beerus then that's a change.

Since you like this kind of discussion, you would save a lot of our time and posts if you just bring the sources (quotes, images, episode minute, links etc). If people aren't able to understand them, it's their problem. You made your part.

[TheMikado]

Yeah, let's see. Manga speaking:

Chapter 19:
SSB Vegeta > SS2 Vegeta > SS1/2 Black > Base Black > SS2 Trunks

Chapter 20:
SSR Black > SS1/2 Black > SSB Vegeta

Chapter 22:
Vegeta SSG > Black SSR

It's a mess.

Well in both the anime and manga Vegeta gets a huge boost after training in the RoSAT alone, to which I call 100% BS but I guess the outline wanted to pull a "Super Vegeta" moment like in the android saga and it's just coming off as awful...

And on top of this, if Vegeta is that much stronger as a SSJG after training in the ROSAT, then surely he should power up to SSJB and finish off SSJR Goku Black? I mean, the jump in power he made in the ROSAT was insane for him to be kicking SSJR Goku Black's ass as a SSJG. If Vegeta doesn't go SSJB against SSJR Goku Black, he's an idiot because SSJB is at the very least X10 stronger than SSJG in the manga. He could end this fight instantly. I hope to God Toyotaro explains this shit.

From the leaks Vegeta thinks SSG is enough and it is but Zamasu sneak attacks him and merges with Black.

[buutenks]

And on top of this, if Vegeta is that much stronger as a SSJG after training in the ROSAT, then surely he should power up to SSJB and finish off SSJR Goku Black? I mean, the jump in power he made in the ROSAT was insane for him to be kicking SSJR Goku Black's ass as a SSJG. If Vegeta doesn't go SSJB against SSJR Goku Black, he's an idiot because SSJB is at the very least X10 stronger than SSJG in the manga. He could end this fight instantly. I hope to God Toyotaro explains this shit.

How is ssjblue 10x ssg in the manga?

[TheUltimateNinja]

What a bunch of bullshit. SSBlue Vegeta was getting jobbed by SSJ Black, yet now he can thrash SSRose Black with only SSGod?

[TheMikado]

What a bunch of bullshit. SSBlue Vegeta was getting jobbed by SSJ Black, yet now he can thrash SSRose Black with only SSGod?

We watched "Super Vegeta" do the exact same thing against a Semi-Perfect Cell after he got jobbed by the androids. I didn't like it then and don't like it now, but somehow a trip to RoSaT seems to give you crazy boosts

[TheUltimateNinja]

What a bunch of bullshit. SSBlue Vegeta was getting jobbed by SSJ Black, yet now he can thrash SSRose Black with only SSGod?

We watched "Super Vegeta" do the exact same thing against a Semi-Perfect Cell after he got jobbed by the androids. I didn't like it then and don't like it now, but somehow a trip to RoSaT seems to give you crazy boosts

The difference is Vegeta became only 3-4x stronger back then and a lot of that was due to his new form. Here he's become over 10x stronger at least, probably more than 20x and in less time. Furthermore, apparently he uses SSBlue in short bursts when needed which totally contradicts the 90% energy loss thing.

[Draconic]

So Vegeta has a mutated Super Saiyan 2 form stronger than Goku's Super Saiyan 3 and also the God form. He really should have just gotten Super Saiyan 3.

Also, apparently now you can use Blue in short bursts even though dropping out of the form reduces you to 10% of your power. So Vegeta uses this like three time and he's toast. Why not just go Blue from the start? Unless he somehow overcame this in less than a year in the ROSAT, which is bullshit, if after 3 years in it with another fighting genius he couldn't do it.

[TheMikado]

What a bunch of bullshit. SSBlue Vegeta was getting jobbed by SSJ Black, yet now he can thrash SSRose Black with only SSGod?

We watched "Super Vegeta" do the exact same thing against a Semi-Perfect Cell after he got jobbed by the androids. I didn't like it then and don't like it now, but somehow a trip to RoSaT seems to give you crazy boosts

The difference is Vegeta became only 3-4x stronger back then and a lot of that was due to his new form. Here he's become over 10x stronger at least, probably more than 20x and in less time. Furthermore, apparently he uses SSBlue in short bursts when needed which totally contradicts the 90% energy loss thing.

I'm not disagreeing its stupid, but there is a precedent for this with Vegeta, he did the same thing in the anime. Came out from the RoSaT and started kicking butt after jobbing.
I'm not seeing where you are getting the using SSB repeatedly in short bursts?? Where does it say that?? If he used it repeatedly like that then it would contradict the lore created earlier.

[TheUltimateNinja]

We watched "Super Vegeta" do the exact same thing against a Semi-Perfect Cell after he got jobbed by the androids. I didn't like it then and don't like it now, but somehow a trip to RoSaT seems to give you crazy boosts

The difference is Vegeta became only 3-4x stronger back then and a lot of that was due to his new form. Here he's become over 10x stronger at least, probably more than 20x and in less time. Furthermore, apparently he uses SSBlue in short bursts when needed which totally contradicts the 90% energy loss thing.

I'm not disagreeing its stupid, but there is a precedent for this with Vegeta, he did the same thing in the anime. Came out from the RoSaT and started kicking butt after jobbing.
I'm not seeing where you are getting the using SSB repeatedly in short bursts?? Where does it say that?? If he used it repeatedly like that then it would contradict the lore created earlier.

Herms said Vegeta uses SSBlue the instant he attacks on Twitter.

[TheMikado]

The difference is Vegeta became only 3-4x stronger back then and a lot of that was due to his new form. Here he's become over 10x stronger at least, probably more than 20x and in less time. Furthermore, apparently he uses SSBlue in short bursts when needed which totally contradicts the 90% energy loss thing.

I'm not disagreeing its stupid, but there is a precedent for this with Vegeta, he did the same thing in the anime. Came out from the RoSaT and started kicking butt after jobbing.
I'm not seeing where you are getting the using SSB repeatedly in short bursts?? Where does it say that?? If he used it repeatedly like that then it would contradict the lore created earlier.

Herms said Vegeta uses SSBlue the instant he attacks on Twitter.

That sounds like he means he goes straight to SSB rather than stepping through forms when he fights strong opponents which would be consistent with what we've seen with Hit, Black, and Frieza. The only time we haven't seen Vegeta doesn't go straight to SSB is when he thinks the opponents are weak. I guess we need to see it in context but nothing about that line says Vegeta repeatedly uses it in short bursts over and over again.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I'm not disagreeing its stupid, but there is a precedent for this with Vegeta, he did the same thing in the anime. Came out from the RoSaT and started kicking butt after jobbing.
I'm not seeing where you are getting the using SSB repeatedly in short bursts?? Where does it say that?? If he used it repeatedly like that then it would contradict the lore created earlier.

Herms said Vegeta uses SSBlue the instant he attacks on Twitter.

That sounds like he means he goes straight to SSB rather than stepping through forms when he fights strong opponents which would be consistent with what we've seen with Hit, Black, and Frieza. The only time we haven't seen Vegeta doesn't go straight to SSB is when he thinks the opponents are weak. I guess we need to see it in context but nothing about that line says Vegeta repeatedly uses it in short bursts over and over again.

Actually it does, he specifies that he only uses it in the instant he attacks and is in SSGod at all other times.

"Black recognizes SS God by its red hair, and calls it be name. Goku explains that Vegeta only turns SS Blue for the instant he attacks"

[TheMikado]

Herms said Vegeta uses SSBlue the instant he attacks on Twitter.

That sounds like he means he goes straight to SSB rather than stepping through forms when he fights strong opponents which would be consistent with what we've seen with Hit, Black, and Frieza. The only time we haven't seen Vegeta doesn't go straight to SSB is when he thinks the opponents are weak. I guess we need to see it in context but nothing about that line says Vegeta repeatedly uses it in short bursts over and over again.

Actually it does, he specifies that he only uses it in the instant he attacks and is in SSGod at all other times.

"Black recognizes SS God by its red hair, and calls it be name. Goku explains that Vegeta only turns SS Blue for the instant he attacks"

Is that a direct quote from the manga itself or paraphrasing because that just sounds like he turns SSB when he actually goes to attack. It doesn't say he turns is back off. Where does he say he turns into SSB over and over again. That's my question? I'm trying to see that and I'm not seeing it anywhere. Where did you see it says Vegeta turns it on and off repeatedly?

[TheUltimateNinja]

That sounds like he means he goes straight to SSB rather than stepping through forms when he fights strong opponents which would be consistent with what we've seen with Hit, Black, and Frieza. The only time we haven't seen Vegeta doesn't go straight to SSB is when he thinks the opponents are weak. I guess we need to see it in context but nothing about that line says Vegeta repeatedly uses it in short bursts over and over again.

Actually it does, he specifies that he only uses it in the instant he attacks and is in SSGod at all other times.

"Black recognizes SS God by its red hair, and calls it be name. Goku explains that Vegeta only turns SS Blue for the instant he attacks"

Is that a direct quote from the manga itself or paraphrasing because that just sounds like he turns SSB when he actually goes to attack. It doesn't say he turns is back off. Where does he say he turns into SSB over and over again. That's my question? I'm trying to see that and I'm not seeing it anywhere. Where did you see it says Vegeta turns it on and off repeatedly?

The last half of that statement. Vegeta only turns SSBlue for the instant he attacks. He's also shown in SSGod in the panels where Zamasu argues with Black and later when they fuse, so he's clearly repeatedly powering up and back down to SSGod.

[DBZ Macky]

Right, he totally shouldn't. If we say that you need to somehow have the SSG power you could either be an SSG or an SBG and then transform into a Super Saiyan to become SSB. The problem lies in that Vegeta never went SSG, so that rules that out.

So, now that this isn't a problem anymore, you should be able to finally fully embrace the "two-base theory".

[TheMikado]

Actually it does, he specifies that he only uses it in the instant he attacks and is in SSGod at all other times.

"Black recognizes SS God by its red hair, and calls it be name. Goku explains that Vegeta only turns SS Blue for the instant he attacks"

Is that a direct quote from the manga itself or paraphrasing because that just sounds like he turns SSB when he actually goes to attack. It doesn't say he turns is back off. Where does he say he turns into SSB over and over again. That's my question? I'm trying to see that and I'm not seeing it anywhere. Where did you see it says Vegeta turns it on and off repeatedly?

The last half of that statement. Vegeta only turns SSBlue for the instant he attacks. He's also shown in SSGod in the panels where Zamasu argues with Black and later when they fuse, so he's clearly repeatedly powering up and back down to SSGod.

Huh? How would you know that without the full context?? There's nothing clear about that.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Right, he totally shouldn't. If we say that you need to somehow have the SSG power you could either be an SSG or an SBG and then transform into a Super Saiyan to become SSB. The problem lies in that Vegeta never went SSG, so that rules that out.

So, now that this isn't a problem anymore, you should be able to finally fully embrace the "two-base theory".

You phrased this very weirdly. It sounds like you're trying desperately to convert me or something. ... Regardless, I am curious as to why this changes things in your mind.

[Simere]

Is that a direct quote from the manga itself or paraphrasing because that just sounds like he turns SSB when he actually goes to attack. It doesn't say he turns is back off. Where does he say he turns into SSB over and over again. That's my question? I'm trying to see that and I'm not seeing it anywhere. Where did you see it says Vegeta turns it on and off repeatedly?

The last half of that statement. Vegeta only turns SSBlue for the instant he attacks. He's also shown in SSGod in the panels where Zamasu argues with Black and later when they fuse, so he's clearly repeatedly powering up and back down to SSGod.

Huh? How would you know that without the full context?? There's nothing clear about that.

I don't understand how it's not clear, assuming what Herms translated is correct. What you're suggesting doesn't make sense grammatically or contextually.

[DBZ Macky]

Right, he totally shouldn't. If we say that you need to somehow have the SSG power you could either be an SSG or an SBG and then transform into a Super Saiyan to become SSB. The problem lies in that Vegeta never went SSG, so that rules that out.

So, now that this isn't a problem anymore, you should be able to finally fully embrace the "two-base theory".

You phrased this very weirdly. It sounds like you're trying desperately to convert me or something. ... Regardless, I am curious as to why this changes things in your mind.

It was just funny to me that you should say that Vegeta not being SSG would somehow "rule out" the theory abd found it interesting that we would see Vegeta as a SSG only a few hours after you said that. I was half-joking in my post.

[Hugo Boss]

Right, he totally shouldn't. If we say that you need to somehow have the SSG power you could either be an SSG or an SBG and then transform into a Super Saiyan to become SSB. The problem lies in that Vegeta never went SSG, so that rules that out.

So, now that this isn't a problem anymore, you should be able to finally fully embrace the "two-base theory".

You phrased this very weirdly. It sounds like you're trying desperately to convert me or something. ... Regardless, I am curious as to why this changes things in your mind.

He was kidding, in a friendly way, I think. You said the problem lied on Vegeta never going SSG, but now we know he can use the form. So, by your logic, if Vegeta can be a SSG he can have its power.

[ChiefWamsutta]

So, now that this isn't a problem anymore, you should be able to finally fully embrace the "two-base theory".

You phrased this very weirdly. It sounds like you're trying desperately to convert me or something. ... Regardless, I am curious as to why this changes things in your mind.

It was just funny to me that you should say that Vegeta not being SSG would somehow "rule out" the theory abd found it interesting that we would see Vegeta as a SSG only a few hours after you said that. I was half-joking in my post.

Hahahahahaha, I gotcha. I didn't really re-read my post and only saw what you wrote. That is pretty great! I like the coincidence!

He was kidding, in a friendly way, I think. You said the problem lied on Vegeta never going SSG, but now we know he can use the form. So, by your logic, if Vegeta can be a SSG he can have its power.

Yeah, I didn't really see my post and understand the context. I just saw part of the string. Whoops.

Yeah, if Vegeta and Goku can do this in the anime I would be interested to find out. It's getting annoying that we have different forms existing for characters in different continuities.

Anime Goku: Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 << SSB < SSB KK
Manga Goku: Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 << SSG < SSB
Anime Vegeta: Base < SS < SS2 <<< SSB
Manga Vegeta: Base < SS < SS2 << SSG < SSB
Anime Trunks: Base < SS < SS2 <<< SSRage
Manga Trunks: Base < SS < SS2
Anime Black: Base <<< SSRose
Manga Black: Base < SS <<< SSRose

You know what I mean? I don't even know who ACTUALLY has what forms currently? Where is the common canon?