"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[TheMikado]

Thats not the point. It didn't matter that he failed, it was the fact they happened and they were stupid.

So do we have a full copy to read this translated in context because I want to find out for sure that the bolded is actually true.

here ya go don't ignored This one, like my other post

Did you READ MY POST??? How is a tweet a full copy in context??????

[The gr]

So do we have a full copy to read this translated in context because I want to find out for sure that the bolded is actually true.

here ya go don't ignored This one, like my other post

Did you READ MY POST??? How is a tweet a full copy in context??????

Dude Herms translated the part where Goku confirm That Vegeta is attacking in a instant why are you ignoring this,it is already confirmed that Vegeta is using that tactic of doing short burts transformation with ssb, that was already stated by goku, are you questioning That tweet because

[Freeza9000]

[spoiler][/spoiler]
Seriously, both Zamasu and Black arguing against each other has got to be one of the most generic things I've ever seen. While in the anime, it successfully showed how Black's teamwork with himself is dangerously effective whenever in sync with Future Zamasu. What made the Zamasu and Black tagteam so great was that they never argued and it's almost like they could tell what they are about to do. How they coordinate their opponents also makes them formidable in their own rights. It also conveys how Zamasu trusts, reveres, and loves only himself. 

[LightBing]

Having criticism doesn't mean I don't enjoy the show.

Sorry for assuming. That's the impression I have based on your posts.

Just because some problems are ingrained into the series doesn't mean they can't be fixed later on which I don't think is asking much with a show that's supposed to be a new continuation of it. Or am I actually going to need to watch a total, scorched Earth reboot of Dragon Ball for someone to grasp the concept of forethought when it comes to the writing side?

Depends on the problems, in my opinion. It's easy to spot that Mr. Toriyama doesn't want everybody being SSJG and we know he didn't expect BoG to have a continuation. He got stuck with a ritual and the only little indication we have of it's ineffectiveness is that Goku maybe only got it because he's a prodigy. Vague as hell, I know. I just roll with it.
These types of problems aren't that significant and while they could throw us a bone and have someone state the "prodigy" requirement, it's not that big a deal.

Not to say we should hand wave everything as "no big deal". Super has to do better and if possible organically correct issues from the past. The anime seems not to care at all or it's extremely incompetent at it. Toyotarõ is clearly trying his best to be plausible, with mixed results.

[TheMikado]

here ya go don't ignored This one, like my other post

Did you READ MY POST??? How is a tweet a full copy in context??????

Dude Herms translated the part where Goku confirm That Vegeta is attacking in a instant why are you ignoring this,it is already confirmed that Vegeta is using that tactic of doing short burts transformation with ssb, that was already stated by goku, are you questioning That tweet because

found the tweet you actually need and yes it makes sense now https://mobile.twitter.com/Herms98/stat ... 3990692864

[Analytical Delusion]

I actually think Vegeta looks quite good. Interested in seeing the dialogue, concerning how he gained the form and what that functionality of it is. I guess it's possible that the ritual was off-screened, though maybe once Blue is achieved, SSG is possible to attain via training (or the fact that Vegeta participated in Goku's ritual helped).

[SansrivaaL]

How in the world does turning blue the moment he attacks makes sense in any way? unless SSJG is actually a faster form than blue and blue is only stronger in power, why go the trouble of doing what Vegeta's doing? to trip Black? we need more info.

[Bulma's Foot Masseur]

This whole SSJ/SSB debacle is reminding me of Sage & Kyuubi mode Naruto, where they both have strengths and weaknesses over each other except without the part where we're told what any of them are.

What was Goku's exact wording when he told Vegeta why his Super Saiyan Blue dropped to 10%? If it was unmistakably because he had entered and exited the form too many times in a short timespan, then this would be the stupidest plan ever! But if he just meant that Vegeta's multiple SSB transformations resulted in him spending too much time in the form, then yeah, this would make sense.

[kinisking]

How in the world does turning blue the moment he attacks makes sense in any way? unless SSJG is actually a faster form than blue and blue is only stronger in power, why go the trouble of doing what Vegeta's doing? to trip Black? we need more info.

So that he can save energy most likely. This way it becomes like a full powered SSB without actually mastering SSB.

However, that theory only works if you ignore what was said in the Champa arc.

[SansrivaaL]

How in the world does turning blue the moment he attacks makes sense in any way? unless SSJG is actually a faster form than blue and blue is only stronger in power, why go the trouble of doing what Vegeta's doing? to trip Black? we need more info.

So that he can save energy most likely. This way it becomes like a full powered SSB without actually mastering SSB.

However, that theory only works if you ignore what was said in the Champa arc.

Possibility yes, but with the Chanpa arc literally throwing out that possibility, I didnt consider it. So is Vegeta treating SSJB like Goku treats KK?

[Black Hawk]

How in the world does turning blue the moment he attacks makes sense in any way? unless SSJG is actually a faster form than blue and blue is only stronger in power, why go the trouble of doing what Vegeta's doing? to trip Black? we need more info.

My theory, though the comparison I use may be rather strange, is that Vegeta is doing something similar to the way some players use the Lense of Truth in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. The Lens of Truth drains magic power when Link uses it, but, if it's toggled on and off in rapid succession, it can be effectively used without draining any magic power, likely a developer oversight. I predict that Vegeta may be doing something similar in that he may be toggling his SSJB form on top of SSJG for extremely brief instances so he doesn't use up his "stamina meter", if you will.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

For the record, I hate the idea of SSG Vegeta. It was fine as a stamina-saving alternative to SSB, but giving it to Vegeta essentially takes away any mystique that it had. I'd even prefer Super Saiyan Orange or some other ridiculous nonsense to this. Quite frankly, this drops my approval rating of the manga by a good bit. It'll have to be a damn good chapter to make up for this.

Bad Toyotaro! No devaluing things that I like!

[Chuquita]

I don't like ssjg on Vegeta either (aesthetics and plot points), but it's a price I'm willing to pay if it means I get more ssjg Gokû. I was so upset for the longest time when ssjblue first came out and replaced Gokû's ssjg (I hoped prior to the F reveal that the blue would be Vegeta while Gokû would keep the magenta; did not come to be.) that even though the manga's in greyscale and I don't actually get to see the color I still get to see the form on Gokû in some official capacity since Toei's all but abandoned it.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

For the record, I hate the idea of SSG Vegeta. It was fine as a stamina-saving alternative to SSB, but giving it to Vegeta essentially takes away any mystique that it had. I'd even prefer Super Saiyan Orange or some other ridiculous nonsense to this. Quite frankly, this drops my approval rating of the manga by a good bit. It'll have to be a damn good chapter to make up for this.

Bad Toyotaro! No devaluing things that I like!

Quite the opposite for me. I especially hate the anime's notion that Vegeta could just skip over God with hard work and Blue himself with his own power. If this reveal suggests that Vegeta actually underwent the ritual proper way back before the Golden Freeza fight, as implied through the film version of "F" and the supplemental material, I'm all for it. 100%.

[Black Hawk]

Quite the opposite for me. I especially hate the anime's notion that Vegeta could just skip over God with hard work and Blue himself with his own power. If this reveal suggests that Vegeta actually underwent the ritual proper way back before the Golden Freeza fight, as implied through the film version of "F" and the supplemental material, I'm all for it. 100%.

Agreed. In all honesty, I'm surprised it's taken this long for Vegeta to display SSJG. When it was used during the tournament with Universe Six, I thought Vegeta would demonstrate it pretty shortly afterward.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

even though the manga's in greyscale and I don't actually get to see the color I still get to see the form on Gokû in some official capacity since Toei's all but abandoned it.

Weird, I pretty much see the colors in my head anyhow. Is that a problem for some people? Maybe it's because I watched a lot of B&W movies when I was younger.

Quite the opposite for me. I especially hate the anime's notion that Vegeta could just skip over God with hard work and Blue himself with his own power. If this reveal suggests that Vegeta actually underwent the ritual proper way back before the Golden Freeza fight, as implied through the film version of "F" and the supplemental material, I'm all for it. 100%.

Although I love everything else about SSG, I always found the ritual to be a little to convenient, corny, etc. for me. So naturally, I'm opposed to that idea (although obviously, this doesn't necessarily indicate that it happened).

However, even if that weren't the case, the anime's idea that you can attain godhood through absolute spiritual control is even more appealing, so in-line with everything that came before. It also fits the fire metaphor that the aesthetics of past transformations were based on. A stable, hot, controlled flame with an indefinite fuel source will be blue (or clear, but obviously that couldn't work).

Even though there's nothing technically wrong with it, nothing about this appeals to me. Quite the opposite, actually.

[TheMathemagician]

SSG Vegeta (as I've said before) was long overdue. Though from the looks of this chapter it's quite possible that Goku won't be fighting Black at all, and that is a real downer for me if true. Not really interested in Vegeta vs. Black III, though I am interested in seeing SSG Vegeta. I am excited to see Merged Zamasu.

[Analytical Delusion]

Couple questions for those who like to view the manga as canon or just generally prefer it over the anime:

1) What do you do for the Freeza arc? Do you read the Toyotaro promotional manga that stops before the main fight? Or do you throw that out and just consider the movie canon (maybe the same for BoG)? Or maybe you consider the released script to be the proper retelling of events?

2) I ask this because I do wonder, if Toyotaro would have utilized red-haired Super Saiyan God in the Freeza fight. I guess there isn't necessarily a need, but considering how Toyotaro's treatment of the U6/Zamasu arcs has differed from the anime, leaves the Freeza arc open to re-litigation.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

What do you do for the Freeza arc? Do you read the Toyotaro promotional manga that stops before the main fight? Or do you throw that out and just consider the movie canon (maybe the same for BoG)? Or maybe you consider the released script to be the proper retelling of events?

That's a good question. The Super manga was a very different product at the time, even the BoG Arc was very poorly told. I think it's probably best to defer to the movies when anything is in question. I don't put much stock in the RoF manga, mostly because it's so faithful to the movie. There's no reason to bother looking into it. Either way, the safest answer is "Some vague version of these events definitely happened".

[Meshack]

Couple questions for those who like to view the manga as canon or just generally prefer it over the anime:

1) What do you do for the Freeza arc? Do you read the Toyotaro promotional manga that stops before the main fight? Or do you throw that out and just consider the movie canon (maybe the same for BoG)? Or maybe you consider the released script to be the proper retelling of events?

2) I ask this because I do wonder, if Toyotaro would have utilized red-haired Super Saiyan God in the Freeza fight. I guess there isn't necessarily a need, but considering how Toyotaro's treatment of the U6/Zamasu arcs has differed from the anime, leaves the Freeza arc open to re-litigation.

1) Throughout the Champa Arc and Future Trunks Arc, details about the Freeza fight were given and it's the same details from the movie and the anime. Stuff like the Freeza Army were not though. You keep mentioning canon but all 3 versions are canon but they're told differently

2) Toyotarou probably would not have used Super Saiyan God in the arc unless Goku didn't actually absorb the God power and he used Super Saiyan God against Freeza before he transformed into Golden Freeza. When Goku and Freeza unleashed their full power, I assume Toyotarou would have used Blue like the other versions