"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[TheSaiyanGod]

Wait, Vegeta did not get any stronger after training at RoSaT?
This does not make sense, since even in Super Saiyan Blue he lost to Black SSJ Rosé.
He could not do any damage, and could not defend his attacks on SSG, so he was stronger yes.
Black just said he did not look different

The SSB is not useless as they are talking about, if it were not for him I doubt the SSG would hold out.
Vegeta can not stay in that form for long, so he guards it and only uses in its entirety when it will use its maximum power.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I'm honestly amazed by how good a form SSGod is in the manga, however I'm totally underwhelmed by everything else.

[Doctor.]

According to Sansrivaal Black didn't say that about Vegeta. Also, them reaching their limits in the RoSAT is an anime thing, I don't recall them saying it in the manga.

Saying Vegeta isn't too different is basically the equivalent of him saying Vegeta didn't get stronger. The conversation follows to "Did you get a new form?" to which Vegeta doesn't reply and later, when he transforms, says he "needed" that form to beat him. It's obviously implied the bulk of Vegeta's training was spent on getting SSG and "mastering" SSB and not on raising his power.

The point still stands because they didn't see any substantial increase after 3 years of training.

This is all a neat idea but it breaks down the moment you examine it closer. I'm sure Toyotaro thought it was cool and didn't bother with logic. He threw in a half-assed explanation to make his little dream scenario work and everyone is instantly okay with it.

[TheUltimateNinja]

According to Sansrivaal Black didn't say that about Vegeta. Also, them reaching their limits in the RoSAT is an anime thing, I don't recall them saying it in the manga.

Saying Vegeta isn't too different is basically the equivalent of him saying Vegeta didn't get stronger. The conversation follows to "Did you get a new form?" to which Vegeta doesn't reply and later, when he transforms, says he "needed" that form to beat him. It's obviously implied the bulk of Vegeta's training was spent on getting SSG and "mastering" SSB and not on raising his power.

The point still stands because they didn't see any substantial increase after 3 years of training.

This is all a neat idea but it breaks down the moment you examine it closer. I'm sure Toyotaro thought it was cool and didn't bother with logic. He threw in a half-assed explanation to make his little dream scenario work and everyone is instantly okay with it.

He probably thinks he's back to writing AF.

[ekrolo2]

According to Sansrivaal Black didn't say that about Vegeta. Also, them reaching their limits in the RoSAT is an anime thing, I don't recall them saying it in the manga.

Saying Vegeta isn't too different is basically the equivalent of him saying Vegeta didn't get stronger. The conversation follows to "Did you get a new form?" to which Vegeta doesn't reply and later, when he transforms, says he "needed" that form to beat him. It's obviously implied the bulk of Vegeta's training was spent on getting SSG and "mastering" SSB and not on raising his power.

The point still stands because they didn't see any substantial increase after 3 years of training.

This is all a neat idea but it breaks down the moment you examine it closer. I'm sure Toyotaro thought it was cool and didn't bother with logic. He threw in a half-assed explanation to make his little dream scenario work and everyone is instantly okay with it.

It's also a really fantastic showcase of how little forethought he puts into the material when Vegeta having an amped SS2 is totally pointless when he simply could've had God be his method for "above SS2 but below Blue" tier fighters.

It's especially bad because the anime resolved all this months ago meaning he's had access to the full picture of Toriyama's outline for a long time now, possibly since he started doing his rendition of the Black arc.

[TheUltimateNinja]

According to Sansrivaal Black didn't say that about Vegeta. Also, them reaching their limits in the RoSAT is an anime thing, I don't recall them saying it in the manga.

Saying Vegeta isn't too different is basically the equivalent of him saying Vegeta didn't get stronger. The conversation follows to "Did you get a new form?" to which Vegeta doesn't reply and later, when he transforms, says he "needed" that form to beat him. It's obviously implied the bulk of Vegeta's training was spent on getting SSG and "mastering" SSB and not on raising his power.

The point still stands because they didn't see any substantial increase after 3 years of training.

This is all a neat idea but it breaks down the moment you examine it closer. I'm sure Toyotaro thought it was cool and didn't bother with logic. He threw in a half-assed explanation to make his little dream scenario work and everyone is instantly okay with it.

It's also a really fantastic showcase of how little forethought he puts into the material when Vegeta having an amped SS2 is totally pointless when he simply could've had God be his method for "above SS2 but below Blue" tier fighters.

It's especially bad because the anime resolved all this months ago meaning he's had access to the full picture of Toriyama's outline for a long time now, possibly since he started doing his rendition of the Black arc.

It also raises the question of where his amped SSJ2 and SSGod fall on the 10% of SSBlue to SSBlue scale.

[OLKv3]

Wait, Vegeta did not get any stronger after training at RoSaT?
This does not make sense, since even in Super Saiyan Blue he lost to Black SSJ Rosé.
He could not do any damage, and could not defend his attacks on SSG, so he was stronger yes.
Black just said he did not look different

The SSB is not useless as they are talking about, if it were not for him I doubt the SSG would hold out.
Vegeta can not stay in that form for long, so he guards it and only uses in its entirety when it will use its maximum power.

He got a lot stronger, he completely erased the transformation cost of SSB

[ekrolo2]

Saying Vegeta isn't too different is basically the equivalent of him saying Vegeta didn't get stronger. The conversation follows to "Did you get a new form?" to which Vegeta doesn't reply and later, when he transforms, says he "needed" that form to beat him. It's obviously implied the bulk of Vegeta's training was spent on getting SSG and "mastering" SSB and not on raising his power.

The point still stands because they didn't see any substantial increase after 3 years of training.

This is all a neat idea but it breaks down the moment you examine it closer. I'm sure Toyotaro thought it was cool and didn't bother with logic. He threw in a half-assed explanation to make his little dream scenario work and everyone is instantly okay with it.

It's also a really fantastic showcase of how little forethought he puts into the material when Vegeta having an amped SS2 is totally pointless when he simply could've had God be his method for "above SS2 but below Blue" tier fighters.

It's especially bad because the anime resolved all this months ago meaning he's had access to the full picture of Toriyama's outline for a long time now, possibly since he started doing his rendition of the Black arc.

It also raises the question of where his amped SSJ2 and SSGod fall on the 10% of SSBlue to SSBlue scale.

TBF to Toyotaro, if I had to work with a script that earlier on said the ROSAT was worthless then suddenly wasn't to explain how Vegeta powers up from it as a way to have him beat up Black, I'd probably be banging my head against the wall at trying to make sense of that bullcrap too.

[Doctor.]

According to Sansrivaal Black didn't say that about Vegeta. Also, them reaching their limits in the RoSAT is an anime thing, I don't recall them saying it in the manga.

Saying Vegeta isn't too different is basically the equivalent of him saying Vegeta didn't get stronger. The conversation follows to "Did you get a new form?" to which Vegeta doesn't reply and later, when he transforms, says he "needed" that form to beat him. It's obviously implied the bulk of Vegeta's training was spent on getting SSG and "mastering" SSB and not on raising his power.

The point still stands because they didn't see any substantial increase after 3 years of training.

This is all a neat idea but it breaks down the moment you examine it closer. I'm sure Toyotaro thought it was cool and didn't bother with logic. He threw in a half-assed explanation to make his little dream scenario work and everyone is instantly okay with it.

It's also a really fantastic showcase of how little forethought he puts into the material when Vegeta having an amped SS2 is totally pointless when he simply could've had God be his method for "above SS2 but below Blue" tier fighters.

It's especially bad because the anime resolved all this months ago meaning he's had access to the full picture of Toriyama's outline for a long time now, possibly since he started doing his rendition of the Black arc.

I doubt he even wrote Vegeta's SS2 form abnormally strong on purpose. It all seems like fanbase headcanon to make sense of the fucked scaling to me.

Despite the shit execution of Vegeta achieving the SSB form on his own in the anime, it's a neat idea. He achieved godhood through his own effort, it's in line with the character and the themes of the series. The idea, on its own (because, again, the execution was terrible), worked because SSB in the anime is treated as an alternate version of SSG. This is somehow worse. Not only did he achieve a form you could only achieve via ritual on his own, he did it after he got SSB and he did it without Whis' help. And if he had the form this all time, then he's a moron for never using it once despite the form being so good.

[Basako]

According to Sansrivaal Black didn't say that about Vegeta. Also, them reaching their limits in the RoSAT is an anime thing, I don't recall them saying it in the manga.

Saying Vegeta isn't too different is basically the equivalent of him saying Vegeta didn't get stronger. The conversation follows to "Did you get a new form?" to which Vegeta doesn't reply and later, when he transforms, says he "needed" that form to beat him. It's obviously implied the bulk of Vegeta's training was spent on getting SSG and "mastering" SSB and not on raising his power.

The point still stands because they didn't see any substantial increase after 3 years of training.

This is all a neat idea but it breaks down the moment you examine it closer. I'm sure Toyotaro thought it was cool and didn't bother with logic. He threw in a half-assed explanation to make his little dream scenario work and everyone is instantly okay with it.

No, the point doesn't still stand. The manga doesn't have to respond for the anime writing, if they said that in the anime, that's exclusively an anime problem.

The warriors not having proportional increases to the time they trained has been a constant since always. Vegeta went from SS to SS2 in seven years and in the last two he has gone from SS2 to SSB. So it's nothing new and we've seen worse.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Wait a minute, why doesn't Black use the same strategy?

[OLKv3]

Wait a minute, why doesn't Black use the same strategy?

He doesn't have SSG. Base, SSJ, Rose. That's what Black has

[Doctor.]

According to Sansrivaal Black didn't say that about Vegeta. Also, them reaching their limits in the RoSAT is an anime thing, I don't recall them saying it in the manga.

Saying Vegeta isn't too different is basically the equivalent of him saying Vegeta didn't get stronger. The conversation follows to "Did you get a new form?" to which Vegeta doesn't reply and later, when he transforms, says he "needed" that form to beat him. It's obviously implied the bulk of Vegeta's training was spent on getting SSG and "mastering" SSB and not on raising his power.

The point still stands because they didn't see any substantial increase after 3 years of training.

This is all a neat idea but it breaks down the moment you examine it closer. I'm sure Toyotaro thought it was cool and didn't bother with logic. He threw in a half-assed explanation to make his little dream scenario work and everyone is instantly okay with it.

No, the point doesn't still stand. The manga doesn't have to respond for the anime writing, if they said that in the anime, that's exclusively an anime problem.

The warriors not having proportional increases to the time they trained has been a constant since always. Vegeta went from SS to SS2 in seven years and in the last two he has gone from SS2 to SSB. So it's nothing new and we've seen worse.

What are you talking about? I didn't talk about the anime. Goku and Vegeta didn't improve much after ROSAT training for 3 years, so he shouldn't get over 10x (as a massive lowball) stronger here. It's Toriyama's fault, really. The anime suffers from the same issue.

Yes, I realize that, it doesn't make it any less dumb. The previous series being stupid and having bad writing doesn't excuse this one when it's stupid and has bad writing. In fact, the recent series should learn from the mistakes.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Wait, Vegeta did not get any stronger after training at RoSaT?
This does not make sense, since even in Super Saiyan Blue he lost to Black SSJ Rosé.
He could not do any damage, and could not defend his attacks on SSG, so he was stronger yes.
Black just said he did not look different

The SSB is not useless as they are talking about, if it were not for him I doubt the SSG would hold out.
Vegeta can not stay in that form for long, so he guards it and only uses in its entirety when it will use its maximum power.

He got a lot stronger, he completely erased the transformation cost of SSB

So he got stronger and mastered the SSB transformation, did not he?

After that, in a long fight without disabling the transformation, SSB is still more effective than the SSJ3 is not it? After all, he fought with Black good part of chapter 20 with SSB and did not complain about energy expenditure (something common with SSJ3), it seems the biggest problem was the fact of using it several times is not it?

[TheUltimateNinja]

Wait a minute, why doesn't Black use the same strategy?

He doesn't have SSG. Base, SSJ, Rose. That's what Black has

Why wouldn't he have SSGod? Goku has it and he can now use SSRose which is analogous to SSBlue which is the evolved version of SSGod.

[Basako]

Wait a minute, why doesn't Black use the same strategy?

Because he didn't train it. It probably took a while to Vegeta to master the technique.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Wait a minute, why doesn't Black use the same strategy?

Because he didn't train it. It probably took a while to Vegeta to master the technique.

Black doesn't seem to have the same weakness they did, though, he uses SSRose with no problems. It should be easy for him to do.

[Namz]

Wait a minute, why doesn't Black use the same strategy?

Obviously he didn't know. He got SSRose for the first time just moments ago.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Wait a minute, why doesn't Black use the same strategy?

Obviously he didn't know. He got SSRose for the first time just moments ago.

He's had it for an entire day now. And he just saw Vegeta use that trick.

[TheMikado]

Saying Vegeta isn't too different is basically the equivalent of him saying Vegeta didn't get stronger. The conversation follows to "Did you get a new form?" to which Vegeta doesn't reply and later, when he transforms, says he "needed" that form to beat him. It's obviously implied the bulk of Vegeta's training was spent on getting SSG and "mastering" SSB and not on raising his power.

The point still stands because they didn't see any substantial increase after 3 years of training.

This is all a neat idea but it breaks down the moment you examine it closer. I'm sure Toyotaro thought it was cool and didn't bother with logic. He threw in a half-assed explanation to make his little dream scenario work and everyone is instantly okay with it.

No, the point doesn't still stand. The manga doesn't have to respond for the anime writing, if they said that in the anime, that's exclusively an anime problem.

The warriors not having proportional increases to the time they trained has been a constant since always. Vegeta went from SS to SS2 in seven years and in the last two he has gone from SS2 to SSB. So it's nothing new and we've seen worse.

What are you talking about? I didn't talk about the anime. Goku and Vegeta didn't improve much after ROSAT training for 3 years, so he shouldn't get over 10x (as a massive lowball) stronger here. It's Toriyama's fault, really. The anime suffers from the same issue.

Yes, I realize that, it doesn't make it any less dumb. The previous series being stupid and having bad writing doesn't excuse this one when it's stupid and has bad writing. In fact, the recent series should learn from the mistakes.

I was about to say the anime has the same problem. It seems like it's impossible to have any consistency at all with the outline. At one point Goku is supposed to be ten times stronger than Goku for reasons... They train for 3 years in the RoSAT hit their limits and get nothing to really show for except Goku being X10 stronger somehow. Then Vegeta is supposed to job against Black and then Vegeta trains for 6 months in RoSAT and suddenly whoops Blacks tail... and both are left to fill in the blanks. I'm not sure what else to do with it. The foundation is broken, the outline is crap and not an ounce of effort seems to be put in at that level...