I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

[Mazingerdestro]

Don't try to "science" the episode.
Goku is not a psychopath or a sociopath.
It was just an awful exaggerated episode that had some weird out of character moments.
Probably the writer had no clue how to handle the moment and as a result he made that mess.

His point was to make the universes hate Goku and then have him earn their trust. A nice plot that would fit his character. However, doing something like that requires talent that this person (or people) didn't have and as a result he turned the "naive but battle hungry Goku" to a "psycho asshole".

We just have to admit that this was just an awful written moment for Goku.

[Beek King]

I'm torn about the characterization of Goku in this arc honestly. I know that he was never supposed to be outright heroic and he's jeopardized the safety of the universe multiple times but he did have some reason and some moments of selflessness all things considered. Hell he decided to stay dead after the Cell saga because he felt like his sheer presence attracted powerful threats (then again you could say he just wanted to stay to fight dead powerful guys in the Other World). Now he's flat out told how he screwed everyone and he's all "yeah, idc".
I dunno what to think of this, I've heard this wild theory that Goku's becoming more bloodthirsty because his head injury he got as a baby is wearing off and that would be a fun twist.

[Asura]

I dunno what to think of this, I've heard this wild theory that Goku's becoming more bloodthirsty because his head injury he got as a baby is wearing off and that would be a fun twist.

I keep hearing this theory being passed around and people really seem to like it, but I personally think it would be hard to pull off.

My leading theory is that Goku told Zeno to tell everyone the losing universes would be destroyed so that people could fight at their hardest and it would be more entertaining for both Goku and Zeno. This would explain why Goku never seemed that surprised when the universe destruction clause was revealed, and how he doesn't give a shit about any of the other universes, and basically laughs in their face when they call him evil.

To me, that would really be the only way to justify Goku's behavior right now outside of some corruption element like the head injury, or something else. He's just rusing everyone, including the audience. I think it would still be lame, but to me it's the only sensical solution to keeping with Goku's character while portraying him as a villain.

[Asura]

Sooo...thoughts on Goku in the recent episode?

For me personally, he was getting on my nerves. "I'm getting excited!" times infinium. When Beerus yelled at Goku & Gohan to basically just shut the fuck up already, that represented quite well how I felt.

Still hasn't done much to alleviate the "Goku is evil" narrative. With each passing episode you just see him caring less and less about anyone.

[Simere]

He was awesome.

Kill 'em all, Goku.

[sintzu]

For me personally, he was getting on my nerves. "I'm getting excited!" times infinium. When Beerus yelled at Goku & Gohan to basically just shut the fuck up already, that represented quite well how I felt.

Still hasn't done much to alleviate the "Goku is evil" narrative. With each passing episode you just see him caring less and less about anyone.

It's a shame he didn't rip his tongue out so we wouldn't have to hear him talk anymore.

I hope it's not just bad writing but instead something that'll be brought up later by everyone.

[TheMathemagician]

Goku is a savage. The episodes have been swaying me over. I want to see how far Goku goes.

[dragonballgeek]

I'm torn about the characterization of Goku in this arc honestly. I know that he was never supposed to be outright heroic and he's jeopardized the safety of the universe multiple times but he did have some reason and some moments of selflessness all things considered. Hell he decided to stay dead after the Cell saga because he felt like his sheer presence attracted powerful threats (then again you could say he just wanted to stay to fight dead powerful guys in the Other World). Now he's flat out told how he screwed everyone and he's all "yeah, idc".
I dunno what to think of this, I've heard this wild theory that Goku's becoming more bloodthirsty because his head injury he got as a baby is wearing off and that would be a fun twist.

This also leaves the door open for Goku to know something that we don't. Maybe him, Zeno and the Grand Priest are in on this. We got a foreshadowing of how far Goku would go to get people to fight him seriously back then with Hit. This could easily be the case at the end of the tournament.

I highly think reserving your opinions of Goku until the end of the arc would make some of these people complaining sound less foolish if this turns out to be true.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I'd like to put in my two cents about why I dislike the way Goku's been going lately and why it's a problem.

1. I can deal with Goku's forgetfulness and foolishness in the Future Trunks arc. He was called out on it, he showed regret, he faced consequences. As of yet, this isn't the case with the Universe Survival arc. Sure, Beerus has called out Goku a couple of times, as well as Bergamo and Toppo, but I'd expect more people (including one close to Goku) pointing out the issues or at least wishing Goku hadn't called for the tournament. More importantly, Goku doesn't care that his actions will lead to the destruction of half of the multiverse. Forget the quibbles over how many universes would have been destroyed or not, and if Gou can really be blamed for it—Goku should be struggling with those issues, too, not just us! I don't blame Goku for the universal destruction (even if Zeno would never have destroyed another universe without the tournament, Goku couldn't have known Zeno would cause this much destruction for the sake of a tournament)...but I definitely blame him for not seeming to care about that destruction. Frig, he doesn't even seem to care about his own universe being on the verge of destruction! And if current trends continue, Goku won't face any consequences. Maybe the arc isn't going that direction, but I don't have much hope thanks to...

2. ...the framing of the situation. "Framing," as I'm using* it here, refers to things like lighting on various characters, whose reactions they show, whose interpretations are given more attention, how secondary characters react or don't react, and other little things to the side which influence how the audience interprets the main events of the plot and, hence, lets us infer how we're intended to interpret those events. You can see an example of what I'm talking about here. Watching the last few episodes of DBS with this in mind, or at least in the back of your mind, it's not hard to see examples of how Goku is framed in a positive light and everyone who criticizes him is framed in a negative light (Beerus being chastised by Whis, Bergamo's criticism being described as "manipulation," U11's gods doubting Goku being a villain and using it and the framing of Toppo in shadow towards the end of the most recent episode). When Goku is criticized, we focus almost exclusively on Goku and those close to him and the voices of those who blame him for causing the impending destruction of several universes are blurred together in the background. The intent seems clear; Goku and those who support him are individuals struggling against a mass of people who think he's evil.

3. The problem ultimately comes from the conflict between points 1 and 2. Goku is painted positively by the framing of the narrative (and the fact that he's kinda the protagonist by default), but many viewers focusing on the events of the narrative notice that Goku's actions are kind of disturbing. Mind, I don't have a problem with the protagonist of a work doing disturbing stuff; possibly my favorite works of fiction ever has the protagonist blind someone with maggots. But there's a difference. The framing of the narrative reflected the nature of the events of the narrative better in the case of maggot-blinding; we were shown† the pain that the blinded man endured, if only briefly; the protagonist reflected on her reasons for doing so‡ rather than just accepting that she did it; and so on. (It was also hero-descends-into-villainy kind of plot, but we're getting off-topic.) In this arc, the framing and events of the narrative don't line up like that. I'm not enough of an arts theorist to explain why this is bad, but...well...it kinda is. A work of media is like a work of art in many ways (even if you don't consider it art); one of these is the importance of having all of the elements of the work fit together. When they don't, the quality of the work deteriorates.

I like Dragon Ball Super, and really like what it's trying to be. That's what makes these problems so frustrating.

* Probably misusing. I'm no film critic; I'm just a guy who complains about films on the Internet. And sometimes in person.
† Figuratively; it's a text-based work.
‡ For the record, it was because the guy had eye-based superpowers. Long story.

[HybridSaiyan]

So was Goku trying to kill Toppa or what? Firing an instant transmission Kamehameha at like full power? sorta like he did with Cell surely, he must've known how dangerous that would be? Goku wouldn't go this far in a sparring match.

[julianix]

The days of Goku scared for his life and that of others died in dbz fellas. I can still remember the look of terror in Gokus eyes when Majin Buu was going to destroy the earth. He was literally pleading; him and Vegeta had no answer and Goku couldn't even save anyone because he couldn't focus on hus IT..

The only way Goku returns to normal is if we get a villain that smacks him around like a joke and uses his foolishness against him. He also needs to lose people close to him and thia time for good. It's time we start losing major z warriors.

[Boo Machine]

So was Goku trying to kill Toppa or what? Firing an instant transmission Kamehameha at like full power? sorta like he did with Cell surely, he must've known how dangerous that would be? Goku wouldn't go this far in a sparring match.

A KiaoKen Kamehameha didn't even Kill Bergamo. What reason does he, or anyone else, have to think that a non KiaoKen one would kill Toppo?

[HybridSaiyan]

So was Goku trying to kill Toppa or what? Firing an instant transmission Kamehameha at like full power? sorta like he did with Cell surely, he must've known how dangerous that would be? Goku wouldn't go this far in a sparring match.

A KiaoKen Kamehameha didn't even Kill Bergamo. What reason does he, or anyone else, have to think that a non KiaoKen one would kill Toppo?

Beerus thought Goku killed Toppa.

Besides, he's not even thinking of the consequences anymore. I thought the writers would make him at least question himself about using it, in case of death to his opponent. Goku was better written in the filler Pikkon tournament.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

So was Goku trying to kill Toppa or what? Firing an instant transmission Kamehameha at like full power? sorta like he did with Cell surely, he must've known how dangerous that would be? Goku wouldn't go this far in a sparring match.

It wasn't a sparring match, Toppo "the leader of justice" tried to kill Goku and you take issue with Goku here (who is far from a hero)? Seriously?

[Boo Machine]

So was Goku trying to kill Toppa or what? Firing an instant transmission Kamehameha at like full power? sorta like he did with Cell surely, he must've known how dangerous that would be? Goku wouldn't go this far in a sparring match.

A KiaoKen Kamehameha didn't even Kill Bergamo. What reason does he, or anyone else, have to think that a non KiaoKen one would kill Toppo?

Beerus thought Goku killed Toppa.

Besides, he's not even thinking of the consequences anymore. I thought the writers would make him at least question himself about using it, in case of death to his opponent. Goku was better written in the filler Pikkon tournament.

Beerus has been wrong before.

Questioning himself everytime he used the Kamehameha would be awful. You really want to stop the momentum of a fight just so Goku can have a little discussion inside his own head? About a guy who saw what Goku is capable of and jumped in anyway and is keeping up just fine? He is fighting Toppo first hand. I would assume Goku knows how much he can take. Especially since fighting is the one thing Super writes goku to be consistently good at.

I feel like this thread is becoming a dumping ground for frustrated fans anytime Goku so much as looks in the wrong direction.

[Lord Beerus]

The days of Goku scared for his life and that of others died in dbz fellas. I can still remember the look of terror in Gokus eyes when Majin Buu was going to destroy the earth. He was literally pleading; him and Vegeta had no answer and Goku couldn't even save anyone because he couldn't focus on hus IT..

The only way Goku returns to normal is if we get a villain that smacks him around like a joke and uses his foolishness against him. He also needs to lose people close to him and thia time for good. It's time we start losing major z warriors.

I can recall Goku shitting his pants several times in the Future Trunks arc.

[Asura]

The days of Goku scared for his life and that of others died in dbz fellas. I can still remember the look of terror in Gokus eyes when Majin Buu was going to destroy the earth. He was literally pleading; him and Vegeta had no answer and Goku couldn't even save anyone because he couldn't focus on hus IT..

The only way Goku returns to normal is if we get a villain that smacks him around like a joke and uses his foolishness against him. He also needs to lose people close to him and thia time for good. It's time we start losing major z warriors.

I can recall Goku shitting his pants several times in the Future Trunks arc.

I can recall Goku getting his ass handed to him and being an absolute moron for the majority of the arc, but I can't say I can recall Goku shitting his pants. Even the Vegito moment was much, much less dramatic with him smiling like a dumb puppy at Vegeta to get him to fuse, in comparison to the Buu arc where he was in a straight up panic.

A KiaoKen Kamehameha didn't even Kill Bergamo. What reason does he, or anyone else, have to think that a non KiaoKen one would kill Toppo?

Beerus thought Goku killed Toppa.

Besides, he's not even thinking of the consequences anymore. I thought the writers would make him at least question himself about using it, in case of death to his opponent. Goku was better written in the filler Pikkon tournament.

Beerus has been wrong before.

Questioning himself everytime he used the Kamehameha would be awful. You really want to stop the momentum of a fight just so Goku can have a little discussion inside his own head? About a guy who saw what Goku is capable of and jumped in anyway and is keeping up just fine? He is fighting Toppo first hand. I would assume Goku knows how much he can take. Especially since fighting is the one thing Super writes goku to be consistently good at.

I feel like this thread is becoming a dumping ground for frustrated fans anytime Goku so much as looks in the wrong direction.

Yeah, I'll agree there was no reason for Goku to think about using a kamehameha in what was basically a death match. It's a silly complaint.

But this thread does exist for good reason, because it still continues to be incredibly obvious every episode that Goku is acting way different than normal, and I for one am tired of hearing "He's been like this all along! You just haven't seen the original japanese dub/read the manga!" (I have) as an end-all-be-all for why he's all of a sudden some crazy bloodthirsty dude who gives zero fucks about anyone.

[Boo Machine]

But this thread does exist for good reason, because it still continues to be incredibly obvious every episode that Goku is acting way different than normal, and I for one am tired of hearing "He's been like this all along! You just haven't seen the original japanese dub/read the manga!" (I have) as an end-all-be-all for why he's all of a sudden some crazy bloodthirsty dude who gives zero fucks about anyone.

Oh, I know Goku is being written a little off. And this thread was originally to discuss that. However for the past few episodes it feels like this thread has turned into a place for people to complain about Gokus every little move instead of discussing the overall character. If Goku did something in an episode someone didn't like I feel like that could be discussed in the episode thread.

[Lord Beerus]

The days of Goku scared for his life and that of others died in dbz fellas. I can still remember the look of terror in Gokus eyes when Majin Buu was going to destroy the earth. He was literally pleading; him and Vegeta had no answer and Goku couldn't even save anyone because he couldn't focus on hus IT..

The only way Goku returns to normal is if we get a villain that smacks him around like a joke and uses his foolishness against him. He also needs to lose people close to him and thia time for good. It's time we start losing major z warriors.

I can recall Goku shitting his pants several times in the Future Trunks arc.

I can recall Goku getting his ass handed to him and being an absolute moron for the majority of the arc, but I can't say I can recall Goku shitting his pants. Even the Vegito moment was much, much less dramatic with him smiling like a dumb puppy at Vegeta to get him to fuse, in comparison to the Buu arc where he was in a straight up panic.

I can only remember Goku forgetting the senzu and the Mafuba jar seal as the questionable narrative choices in regards to Goku's intellect. Other than that, Goku was fine for the vast majority of the arc and reacted appropriately to situations where his back was against the wall with Goku Black and Merged Zamasu. He especially went into a panic when Zeno was about to erase Zamasu and Future Trunks' multiverse.

[BlueBasilisk]

But this thread does exist for good reason, because it still continues to be incredibly obvious every episode that Goku is acting way different than normal, and I for one am tired of hearing "He's been like this all along! You just haven't seen the original japanese dub/read the manga!" (I have) as an end-all-be-all for why he's all of a sudden some crazy bloodthirsty dude who gives zero fucks about anyone.

Goku's flippant attitude in the last few episodes has been downright insufferable. He's always been a fighting junkie with poor judgement when it comes to strong opponents, but he did show some concern for people getting caught in the crossfire. Now he sounds like a broken record who can only say WAKU WAKU. Trillions of lives are on the line and I don't think he could give less of a fuck if he tried. He didn't even seem to comprehend why Toppo didn't want to shake his hand.