If Dragonball Z came back on TV would Bruce Faulconer Music come back?

[Gokuisasuperhero]

Also, don't they have some agreement in place where they have to pay Faulconer royalties every time his score is played on TV? So they'd probably go with the Kikuchi score if only to get around that.

That had Faulconer Score on until like 2008 on Cartoon Network long after the lawsuit so I don't see that as the case. But as TheBlackPaladin said early if there ever wanted edited version of Dragonball Z to air on TV it would have to Bruce Faulconer that air b/c there only 1 edit version that was made and that was with Bruce Faulconer Score. Nicktoons did this with GT where Mark Menza's Score that the version that air on TV. As for airing uncut then that could air either or.

[Bansho64]

Sorry I meant to say they used Blu-ray footage, not Orange Brick footage. While the singles wouldn't be a bad choice they're not HD, which I'm pretty sure Toonami Asia's shows generally are. Plus they'd had to have used the Edited Ocean Pioneer singles for the early episodes, which would lead to censorship complaints.
.

You sure it's Blu Ray? All the clips and promos that their YouTube account uploads is of the normal Orange Brick DVDs, so I assumed that's what they use.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Not necessarily. I think it basically applies to any country it airs in, and I've got a hunch that it's part of the reason Cartoon Network UK chose to switch to the Westwood dub later on, because they couldn't afford to pay Faulconer royalties on top of licensing the show. At least that's my assumption. There seems to be a somewhat similar issue with recent English dubs like One Piece and Buu Kai not being able to dub the Intro and Ending songs overseas due to the Japanese singers/songwriters maintaining certain rights.

Good point, I never thought of that a reason why we potentially switched dubs again, I buy it.

[VegettoEX]

I may be out of line here, but I just wanted to mention that while his post was difficult to read, I understood what he was saying perfectly. His response was to explain that he was disabled, and there was no acknowledgement on your part. I understand where you were coming from, because no one likes to read what appears to be texting shorthand, but my first thought was that maybe english wasn't this user's first language. I'm not even saying you owe him an apology, or special treatment, but I think your response was a bit much.

Fair point - thanks! I overlooked that portion. We of course make allowances where necessary. That being said:

"accuracy" there is no "accuracy" to DBZ it was a manga that turn into anime just b/c that change songs does not make it any less different in term of accuracy.

I'm not entirely sure you're closely reading the points that have been brought up.

[floofychan333]

Since replacement scores have gone extinct then I think they'd keep Kikuchi in, which should have been done in the first place. Also, FUNi is now actually trying to make their dubs accurate to the source material and seem to be dialing back the Americanization quite a bit so it's almost 100% likely Kikuchi would stay.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

While it could theoretically be possible for an edited TV airing I think its worth noting its unlikely at this stage that the edited version of original Dragon Ball Z will air on US TV again. With Super being a thing now any TV stations interested in Dragon Ball will most likely want to breeze through old content to get to the new stuff because that's what will promote the new toys, DLC packs and video games the best. That could mean airing Super alongside its predecessor or straight after it, although since Super is hot property the former is more likely. In either case Kai has greater bargaining power, as Z's pacing for kids nowadays would be very jarring in comparison to Super which moves much quicker and most broadcasters wouldn't want to risk the newer generation losing interest sitting through 291 episodes just to get to the new content.

Even for an uncut airing its unlikely since the uncut footage would sync with Kikuchi it would be more cost-effective for the broadcaster to use the Kikuchi version to avoid having to pay Faulconer royalties for the music.

[Gokuisasuperhero]

While it could theoretically be possible for an edited TV airing I think its worth noting its unlikely at this stage that the edited version of original Dragon Ball Z will air on US TV again. With Super being a thing now any TV stations interested in Dragon Ball will most likely want to breeze through old content to get to the new stuff because that's what will promote the new toys, DLC packs and video games the best. That could mean airing Super alongside its predecessor or straight after it, although since Super is hot property the former is more likely. In either case Kai has greater bargaining power, as Z's pacing for kids nowadays would be very jarring in comparison to Super which moves much quicker and most broadcasters wouldn't want to risk the newer generation losing interest sitting through 291 episodes just to get to the new content.

Even for an uncut airing its unlikely since the uncut footage would sync with Kikuchi it would be more cost-effective for the broadcaster to use the Kikuchi version to avoid having to pay Faulconer royalties for the music.

I don't think that have to paid Faulconer b/c that had air Faulconer Score long after the lawsuit as it end in 2005. Faulconer Score was still airing until 2008 on Cartoon Network and then also air an Ep. in 2012 on April Fool Day. As for you saying people would get "board" of 291 eps. of DBZ I half to disagree on that front. Faulconer Score never stop to keep kids into not being board. Also Japan Score does not have a known edit version where Faulconer does. So if a channel like said Cartoon Network or Nicktoons wanted DBZ back as an Edit version that what that would have. And DBZ would make more sense to show with Super out know so people can watch it and no what going on. There Kai yes but Kai does not have filler sage like DBZ and from what I heard is that later on in Super there a some filler thing that get show in Super that where apart of DBZ.

[Danfun64]

Look... I don't want to be rude or anything. I know that you apparently have a mental disability. However, i'm not sure that excuses you from pretty much ignoring everything that is being said here (That said, for all I know you could be 13 with social intelligence of a 9 year old. I know that's a thing because...) I have a mental disability myself (High Functioning Autism) and even now I wonder if I act younger than my age. I know for certain that I acted younger that my age in some ways when I was 12 and 13. That being said, all through my Elementary, Middle, and High School years I've been in Special Ed classes at least some of the time (granted my need to be in said classes grew to be less and less over time, but still) and as such I saw some kids who were affected by their disabilities more severely than I was. I'm pretty sure that in the case of even most of those kids, they tried to learn about their interests in the most accurate way they can manage. You however, have repeatedly ignored what people are saying here, and if the aforementioned kids are capable of learning things and paying attention, then we should expect more from you, since you are mentally sound enough to talk on these forums.

[Gokuisasuperhero]

Look... I don't want to be rude or anything. I know that you apparently have a mental disability. However, i'm not sure that excuses you from pretty much ignoring everything that is being said here (That said, for all I know you could be 13 with social intelligence of a 9 year old. I know that's a thing because...) I have a mental disability myself (High Functioning Autism) and even now I wonder if I act younger than my age. I know for certain that I acted younger that my age in some ways when I was 12 and 13. That being said, all through my Elementary, Middle, and High School years I've been in Special Ed classes at least some of the time (granted my need to be in said classes grew to be less and less over time, but still) and as such I saw some kids who were affected by their disabilities more severely than I was. I'm pretty sure that in the case of even most of those kids, they tried to learn about their interests in the most accurate way they can manage. You however, have repeatedly ignored what people are saying here, and if the aforementioned kids are capable of learning things and paying attention, then we should expect more from you, since you are mentally sound enough to talk on these forums.

I said Learning Disable. 2 I been at spelling and type sentence wrong. Also if you have a disable then you should know ALL people with disable are different. Also where did I injore anything? Only 2 talk about before you. 1 that made the statement then another who defend me. So not sure why your bring this up.

[OmegaRockman]

People keep telling me they like the changed music... when I keep in turn telling them I understand they like the changed music and it's fantastic they like the changed music... but that's not the underlying point I've ever been making!

Again, really, it's great if you like the replacement music, and you've had a few decent theories as to what might be used were Z-proper to come back to American television. The side discussion, however, came off the word "accuracy", and subjective taste really has nothing to do with that.

"accuracy" there is no "accuracy" to DBZ it was a manga that turn into anime just b/c that change songs does not make it any less different in term of accuracy.

Yes, the Dragon Ball Z anime is an adaptation of the manga. However, that adaptation is it's own separate product, and Mike is saying he would prefer that said product (Dragon Ball Z the TV series) should be represented accurately, with dialogue keeping in spirit of the original production and the music intact. You like the Faulconer replacement score. That's great, enjoy it! However, it was not part of the original production of Dragon Ball Z the TV series. The Kikuchi score was. Changing that music in an overseas market makes that overseas version less accurate in representing the original production that was Dragon Ball Z the TV series.

I wouldn't change the music of The Flash TV series in an overseas version even though it's an adaptation of the comic series The Flash. Why? Because the television series is its own product with its own music, dialogue, narrative content, ect. produced for it. If I want to accurately represent that product overseas, I would make as little changes as possible to it outside of dubbing it for accessibility. Making unnecessary changes to the music and dialogue would mean that I would not be accurately representing the product that is The Flash the TV series. The same applies to Dragon Ball Z the TV series.

[Gokuisasuperhero]

People keep telling me they like the changed music... when I keep in turn telling them I understand they like the changed music and it's fantastic they like the changed music... but that's not the underlying point I've ever been making!

Again, really, it's great if you like the replacement music, and you've had a few decent theories as to what might be used were Z-proper to come back to American television. The side discussion, however, came off the word "accuracy", and subjective taste really has nothing to do with that.

"accuracy" there is no "accuracy" to DBZ it was a manga that turn into anime just b/c that change songs does not make it any less different in term of accuracy.

Yes, the Dragon Ball Z anime is an adaptation of the manga. However, that adaptation is it's own separate product, and Mike is saying he would prefer that said product (Dragon Ball Z the TV series) should be represented accurately, with dialogue keeping in spirit of the original production and the music intact. You like the Faulconer replacement score. That's great, enjoy it! However, it was not part of the original production of Dragon Ball Z the TV series. The Kikuchi score was. Changing that music in an overseas market makes that overseas version less accurate in representing the original production that was Dragon Ball Z the TV series.

I wouldn't change the music of The Flash TV series in an overseas version even though it's an adaptation of the comic series The Flash. Why? Because the television series is its own product with its own music, dialogue, narrative content, ect. produced for it. If I want to accurately represent that product overseas, I would make as little changes as possible to it outside of dubbing it for accessibility. Making unnecessary changes to the music and dialogue would mean that I would not be accurately representing the product that is The Flash the TV series. The same applies to Dragon Ball Z the TV series.

That what everyone does with anime bro. Also by doing that is what made DBZ a big hit.

"Faulconer's music is attributed to have had a favorable impact on the television ratings for Dragon Ball Z while the version aired on Cartoon Network. The third season of Dragon Ball Z, with the debut of Faulconer's music, ratings for the show soared, and Dragon Ball Z soon received ratings as the Nielsen Number One Rated Show in Children's Programming for Cable TV (awarded 3 times, from 2001-2003) for Cartoon Network programming. In 2003, the Nielsen ratings continued to soar for Dragon Ball Z as it became the Number One Rated Show for all of Cable TV for Children's Programming in six market demographics."

Source: http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Bruce_Faulconer

I don't think Kikuchi score would have got DBZ over... Bruce Faulconer is what got a lot of people into the series after he took over. Was the series a hit before he got for the 1st 2 season? YES! But Bruce took it to a NEW LEVEL when he took over in Season 3. Changes to anime is what help get over in 1st place people seem to forget that fact. Not every anime is going accuracy to the Japan Version things are lose in translation a lot of times. And some time changes work in a good way to get people more into the series. It does not hurt the show at all... Like Power Ranger for an Example that was basic on a Japan Show that change it for English and a lot of people love Power Ranger and now it got a live action movie...

[ABED]

I don't think Kikuchi score would have got DBZ over... Bruce Faulconer is what got a lot of people into the series after he took over. Was the series a hit before he got for the 1st 2 season? YES! But Bruce took it to a NEW LEVEL when he took over in Season 3. Changes to anime is what help get over in 1st place people seem to forget that fact. Not every anime is going accuracy to the Japan Version things are lose in translation a lot of times. And some time changes work in a good way to get people more into the series. It does not hurt the show at all... Like Power Ranger for an Example that was basic on a Japan Show that change it for English and a lot of people love Power Ranger and now it got a live action movie...

I don't see it. Music is important, but it's not what got people into the show. It's the characters and the action. DBZ was already a success before season 3. And if the terrible voice acting wasn't offputting, I'd say there was nothing that was going to stop DBZ from being a success.

[Kaboom]

Attributing Faulconer's "music" to the booming success of the dub at the time is a pretty big assumption on the parts of both the Wiki and various fans who think the same thing. It much more likely had a lot more to do with the schedule shift that came at the same time as Faulconer's advent, where DBZ moved to a weekday afternoon airtime. If its viewership numbers skyrocketed at that point, it's no doubt because kids could now plop down and watch it every day after school, not because some musical wizard swooped in and entranced people with his synth-rock concoctions.

I know that was certainly similar for me — I got into Dragon Ball as a whole from watching DBZ on Toonami, but what hooked me was the larger story, intense action, and charming characters. It wasn't anything specific to the English dub itself like the altered music. Which shows in how my fandom not only survived but also grew exponentially once I dove onto the internet and taught myself more about the real DBZ, quickly leaving the English dub in my dust.

DBZ has a universal, world-wide appeal. It's popular all over the world without any alterations to its true music. Nobody else around the globe "needed" Faulconer or Johnson or Levy or whoever else's replacement scores to enjoy the show, and there's no reason to believe they were "needed" here either. It was certainly well-received enough when the early Pioneer dubs kept the proper music.

DBZ succeeded in North America despite the disrespectful, sloppy treatment that Funimation gave it, not thanks to it.

[ABED]

Attributing DBZ's success in America is ad hoc ergo propter hoc thinking.

[Hellspawn28]

Some people are very attach to Bruce Faulconer's music which why some of them think that it made DBZ popular despite DBZ having strong TV ratings before Bruce Faulconer show up.

[Kokonoe]

Attributing Faulconer's "music" to the booming success of the dub at the time is a pretty big assumption on the parts of both the Wiki and various fans who think the same thing. It much more likely had a lot more to do with the schedule shift that came at the same time as Faulconer's advent, where DBZ moved to a weekday afternoon airtime. If its viewership numbers skyrocketed at that point, it's no doubt because kids could now plop down and watch it every day after school, not because some musical wizard swooped in and entranced people with his synth-rock concoctions.

I know that was certainly similar for me — I got into Dragon Ball as a whole from watching DBZ on Toonami, but what hooked me was the larger story, intense action, and charming characters. It wasn't anything specific to the English dub itself like the altered music. Which shows in how my fandom not only survived but also grew exponentially once I dove onto the internet and taught myself more about the real DBZ, quickly leaving the English dub in my dust.

DBZ has a universal, world-wide appeal. It's popular all over the world without any alterations to its true music. Nobody else around the globe "needed" Faulconer or Johnson or Levy or whoever else's replacement scores to enjoy the show, and there's no reason to believe they were "needed" here either. It was certainly well-received enough when the early Pioneer dubs kept the proper music.

DBZ succeeded in North America despite the disrespectful, sloppy treatment that Funimation gave it, not thanks to it.

I find this rather disingenuous. Dragon Ball itself is definitely the reason it's popular here, but to ignore that Funi's execution of the dub (even if it may not be your preference) or Faulconer's OST actually helped quite a bit over here and has an abundant amount of fans that adore it is really fooling yourself.

[Nightmare Wheel]

Attributing Faulconer's "music" to the booming success of the dub at the time is a pretty big assumption on the parts of both the Wiki and various fans who think the same thing. It much more likely had a lot more to do with the schedule shift that came at the same time as Faulconer's advent, where DBZ moved to a weekday afternoon airtime. If its viewership numbers skyrocketed at that point, it's no doubt because kids could now plop down and watch it every day after school, not because some musical wizard swooped in and entranced people with his synth-rock concoctions.

I know that was certainly similar for me — I got into Dragon Ball as a whole from watching DBZ on Toonami, but what hooked me was the larger story, intense action, and charming characters. It wasn't anything specific to the English dub itself like the altered music. Which shows in how my fandom not only survived but also grew exponentially once I dove onto the internet and taught myself more about the real DBZ, quickly leaving the English dub in my dust.

DBZ has a universal, world-wide appeal. It's popular all over the world without any alterations to its true music. Nobody else around the globe "needed" Faulconer or Johnson or Levy or whoever else's replacement scores to enjoy the show, and there's no reason to believe they were "needed" here either. It was certainly well-received enough when the early Pioneer dubs kept the proper music.

DBZ succeeded in North America despite the disrespectful, sloppy treatment that Funimation gave it, not thanks to it.

I find this rather disingenuous. Dragon Ball itself is definitely the reason it's popular here, but to ignore that Funi's execution of the dub (even if it may not be your preference) or Faulconer's OST actually helped quite a bit over here and has an abundant amount of fans that adore it is really fooling yourself.

I have my doubts about its importance given that the entire cast and score was replaced wholesale partway through the series and very few people seemed to care. People may still like the score now, but I doubt it would have been missed too much had it never existed.

[90sDBZ]

While there's no way to say for certain to what extent the Faulconer score affected the success of the show, I think the fact that it's still largely talked about and adored by many today despite its run ending way back in 2003 says quite a lot about it. It's not even the default option on the main home releases, and yet it still hasn't been forgotten. As much as I also like the Levy score, you don't see it being mentioned anywhere near as much as Faulconer, even though the ratings were also high when the Saban dub aired. The Faulconer score had a greater variety or tracks, and established character themes that many now consider to be iconic such as Vegeta's theme.

And when you look at some of the later replacement scores like Menza and Jonson, they don't get anywhere near the love or attention that the Faulconer score gets, despite being heard by the same audience. The Faulconer Productions team took the time to make unique pieces for even the less significant story arcs, like the 10 episode Garlic Jr filler saga for example. That's some serious attention to detail right there that doesn't go unnoticed. Kikuchi on the other hand mainly recycled the movie OSTs for the series, rather than creating new music specifically tailored to each scene, resulting in a hit and miss situation overall. I think the amount of variety in a score is something that gets seriously undervalued sometimes.

Z alone is a very long series that many consider to be difficult to get through at times. Bearing this in mind, isn't it better to not be listening to the same handful of tracks played over and over again, but to have new music introduced regularly to prevent things from getting stale?

I might be in the minority on this forum, but I believe that the score still holds up well, and would be just as well liked by newer fans if it were to air on a mainstream kids channel again.

[Bansho64]

Bearing this in mind, isn't it better to not be listening to the same handful of tracks played over and over again, but to have new music introduced regularly to prevent things from getting stale?

Not at all if you ask me. If the music is good enough, then I don't see the problem tbh. Imo, Kikuchi's music is just THAT good. And I wouldn't call it a handful. Also, I don't think new automatically equals good. What good does music do if I don't like it? It'd just be unnecessary.

For example, look at Inuyasha. A ton of tracks get reused over and over in that show. Maybe even more so than Kikuchi's. But the music is just THAT good to me that it really doesn't even matter. It never gets stale because of how good the tracks are.

[Thanos]

At the risk of beating a dead horse, it seems to me that apologists of the Faulconer OST put in on some kind of pedestal and think DBZ would've been a failure without it. It seems we're attributing the replacement score to DBZ's stateside success because you like the music. The score accurately depicting a legitimate (at least as legitimate as the original) interpretation of the series because you like the music. There really seems to be no reasoning beyond that. Any creative accolades one could think up are automatically attributed to this thing because you like it. You like it? Great. But putting it on some kind of pedestal is frankly silly. The series has gone gangbusters worldwide for decades, and Faulconer's glorified FL Studio creations represent a fraction of the series' exposure throughout the world.

Furthermore, I got into the series during the Toonami era, and at no point did I, in my 10-year-old mind think 'Oh boy, I wasn't really into this Dragon Ball Z thing, but now hearing this music, sign me up, please!' I find it hard to believe that children would give a lick about the background music or be more or less interested in the product based on that. I don't think kids would even notice if there was complete silence where music ought to be. Of course I'm sure someone will find a way to include themselves as an exception, and I don't doubt there are, but by and large, kids generally don't invest their enjoyment of cartoons based on the background music. It's a strange, albeit fascinating, debate based on something that was merely conjured based on licensing issues. It would be like growing up on the Budokai HD Collection and arguing the generic recycled rock tracks that were used in place of Yamamoto's score were somehow a better representation of the original. Odd.